General Over here Masato

[Never_Rolled]

Ok lets have the discussion here and leave that thread be.

The reason I asked if you were a pacifist is because I see common themes in pacifists and people against gun rights (not all). A subset of of anti-gunners are some people that are plain frightened about guns period. Their arguments have little basis in reality. I detected some of that in your thinking and also the song lyrics also seem written by pacifists. Knowing where you are coming from helps me understand your thinking. It's a bit disrespectful also to say only the winners were never on the battlefield. I would think most of those guys still believe they did the right thing or they wouldn't be back there. It may be old fashioned but I believe there are still good guys and bad guys.

Is there propaganda? Sure. Did war crimes occur on both sides? Sure. Do I believe to the level you state? Not a chance (allies).

This is the thread to discuss all of your WWII thoughts.

 

[kneeblock]

@Masato Toys

 

[jason73]

 

[Masato Toys]

Thanks man. This is a huge topic. Honestly I have a lot of work today so have to be wary about getting sucked in too deep

But I will enjoy a discussion if you're patient with me, I can't can't chat all day.

First of all let me say I'm not confident in any of my opinions about WWII and am still totally seeking to learn and understand. I've been trying to puzzle together what makes most sense to me for quite some time now, and though I have reason to support the picture that this puzzle is forming I am totally open to the fact that there is oceans I don't know and will never know. So if we can treat this as a mutually beneficial discussion to share viewpoints and ideas perhaps we can both become a little wiser.

Basically what I think you're asking about comes down to an idea that the Allied powers were possibly quite more nasty than history has told, and that they were a major threat to a lot of shit long before Nazis even spawned, and could easily be seen as serious Bad Guys worth fighting against by many peoples. On one hand you have Communist Bolsheviks, who just overthrew a monarchy and were spreading their ideologies very fast and ruthlessly with a goal to cover all of Europe... and on the other hand you have the British Fucking Empire with all its history of conquering and enslaving and racial genocides all over the world, teamed up with an international banking cartel that has USA, its rampant racial segregation and its insane military funding by the balls. that's quite the soup, lol.

Then go back to WWI why's and how's, and the state of Germany afterwards. Who wrote the Treaty of Versailles and why? etc Who was carving up Europe and redrawing the borders etc? Look at borders of Germany before and after WWI, tell me if you see anything interesting around what was later to be called Poland, etc.

Wars are almost always spun into a good-guy vs bad-guy scenario to capture the hearts and lives of the people to fight, to simplify the discussion, to slander the critics. I think a great deal of that was done and has been done ever since to cement a certain narrative of the wars in our collective psyche. A lot of work done to maintain it. I do believe that 'History is written by the victors' very much so.

Now, all that doesn't therefore make the Nazis the 'Good Guys' in the picture... but it has shifted the way I see WWI and WWII a lot.

I still have a lot of questions about WWII to be honest, I can see several different scenarios of how and why it all played out and I am honestly still uncertain which are closer to the truth.

IMHO there are mountains of post war propaganda to sift through, a lot of lies and ommissions and bedtime stories of heroes and villains. It takes effort to disconnect from all that and start looking again through as unbiased eyes as we are able to muster

 

[RaginCajun]

 

[Masato Toys]

It's a bit disrespectful also to say only the winners were never on the battlefield. I would think most of those guys still believe they did the right thing or they wouldn't be back there. It may be old fashioned but I believe there are still good guys and bad guys.

Winners were not on the battlefield. I think this is so

 

[Masato Toys]

Did war crimes occur on both sides? Sure. Do I believe to the level you state? Not a chance (allies).

I posted in the other thread. Look at Bolshevik Gulags, Holodomor, Eisenhower's Death Camps, Bombing of Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, the Crimes of the British Empire.

 

[Masato Toys]

The Treaty of Versailles itself was a fucking war crime imo.

 

[Masato Toys]

goddamn thread, gotta get back to work lol