he literally admitted to lying to the public about whether masks work because they didn't have enough masks for front-line workers.
once you put your interests over public health, you're just another Dr. Tenpenny.
General Pastor Says Fauci Should Be Waterboarded Until He Admits to Working With China to Create COVID
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once you put your interests over public health, you're just another Dr. Tenpenny.
I believe, to a great extent, in falsifiability. That means I base my theories about things that happen in the world on evidence I can support. This doesn't mean I'm above speculation, like anyone. Speculation and imagination is how we arrive at some of our most interesting findings. Further, it's how we ferret out the truth when bad faith actors are trying to deliberately conceal it. I applaud this impulse and I understand the distrust of institutions like the state, research facilities, etc, none of which have the most spotless records on explaining things to the public clearly or comprehensively. It may be that eventually evidence comes to light that makes the "lab leak" theory seem plausible. But as of now, it's mostly built on a house of cards of circumstantial strings of evidence that don't fit together well and are unsupported by the work that hundreds of researchers around the globe are doing on this virus.
What I can tell you has been more comprehensively documented and fairly conclusively supported is who originated the lab origins idea, who spread it and who has promoted it in media and in direct statements to press. Here are some useful links on that for anyone who is interested:
From early in the pandemic, on the likelihood of COVID-19 aka SARS-Cov-2 having a natural origin.
Genomic Study Points to Natural Origin of COVID-19
No matter where you go online these days, there’s bound to be discussion of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). Some folks are even making outrageous claims that the new coronavirus causing the pa…directorsblog.nih.gov
From May of last year, a synthesis of theories floating and scientific opinion on them.
Scientists: 'Exactly zero' evidence COVID-19 came from a lab
www.cidrap.umn.edu
From last summer, a journal article on the evolutionary path of COVID-19 that finds its antecedents have likely been around in the wild for awhile.
Evolutionary origins of the SARS-CoV-2 sarbecovirus lineage responsible for the COVID-19 pandemic - Nature Microbiology
In this manuscript, the authors address evolutionary questions on the emergence of SARS-CoV-2. They find that SARS-CoV-2 is not a recombinant of any sarbecoviruses detected to date, and that the bat and pangolin sequences most closely related to SARS-CoV-2 probably diverged several decades ago...www.nature.com
On the theory of a lab leak, its refusal to die and counter-evidence against it.
Evidence of COVID’s natural origin mounts even as conspiracy theory about Chinese lab refuses to die - Alliance for Science
Though nearly half of Americans surveyed believe the COVID-19 virus was created in a Chinese lab, mounting scientific evidence continues to point to a natural origin. The most recent research, published May 10 in the journal Current Biology, offers yet more evidence that SARS-CoV-2, the virus...allianceforscience.cornell.edu
A Timeline Of The COVID-19 Wuhan Lab Origin Theory
The theory that COVID-19 originated in a lab in Wuhan has emerged as a highly contentious claim since the outbreak began.www.forbes.com
The superspreaders behind top COVID-19 conspiracy theories
As the coronavirus spread, speculation about its origins was close behindabcnews.go.com
And here's a recent comprehensive overview from CNet that leaves the question open, describes why the lab leak theory has appeal and even some support and discusses some of the motivations of people who have spread this theory.
The complex, messy hunt for COVID-19's origin and the lab leak theory
A tangle of conspiracy and politicking has complicated the investigation into the pandemic's origin.www.cnet.com
appreciate it, go through this as I get time...should be able to read a couple today.
but I'm open to lab-leak not being the source, I just think it's irresponsible to say "CCP says nothing to see here, let's move on"
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Florida has never had a mask mandate and we've been open for a long time.
Hospital numbers are going down overall because 80% of seniors are vaccinated, but the state also has an average 10% positivity rate on all covid tests, still.
The people saying that Florida has avoided disaster are terribly misinformed.
"China has become a target for Trump and Republicans looking to cast blame for the crisis in the U.S. The Trump administration has been faulted for its own response to the virus, and the theory that the virus spread from a lab has emerged as a potentially powerful way to change the subject."A Timeline Of The COVID-19 Wuhan Lab Origin Theory
The theory that COVID-19 originated in a lab in Wuhan has emerged as a highly contentious claim since the outbreak began.
this source is from May of last year, and was from when the MSM was strongly trying to lay full accountability at the feet of Trump. I don't see anything in this piece that precludes lab origin.
it also relies solely on the 'letter to the editor' that Peter Daszak published in the Lancet as the only source of 'this claim has been debunked'.
this piece doesn't add anything, other than it's an example of circular citation and sources.
@kneeblock - that was just the first one I clicked on, I don't doubt that there's a good case to be made and I want to understand it.
Me, too.
And I hate articles that blur the lines between manmade virus and a lab leaked virus.
They have said that it couldn't have leaked from the lab because the virus was not found there.
The closest matching virus known to man (RatG-13) was coded and entered it into a database by a researcher at that lab. As it turns out, no one can find this virus either.
what if that's because that virus never existed and was 'documented' after the fact to create a natural link?
is there a reason that scenario could not have played out?
I presented the articles in sequence deliberately, so it's probably best to read them in order. The purpose of my sequencing is to show you how analysis and opinion of the lab theory has developed over time and how it's been approached from a variety of different sources, including scientific journals, official government statements, academic summaries of findings and journalistic articles.
There are two stories here. The plausibility of the theory and the circulation of the theory. Inquiry into both are distinct, but in unison they offer a window into how much time it's worth investing into the idea.
does that mean that nothing worth considering has happened since May of last year? I think that was when that Forbes article was published. One of my main beefs with the "no way ever" is that it was put forth in March of 2020.
There's no evidence of mice having been an intermediary species in the development of COVID-19. Once we move to "Who knows," we're engaging in speculation, which, again is fine, but what evidence prompts the speculation that other animals were introduced into the laboratory testing process? Also, "transgenic mice" simply means genetically modified, which is not the same as mutation, which describes a natural process. I know you're likely just using the term mutant colloquially, but it's an important distinction, especially as an X-Men fan.
I never said mice had anything to do with the development. They use the genetically modified mice to host the coronavirus, wait for mutations (what's happening naturally in the Petri dish) or sometimes they may induce (or help speed up) the mutations and then study the outcome.
You brought up mixing it with a another animal. I was only pointing out that injecting animals with corona viruses they find is what they normally do. They have injected and studied corona viruses in cats, the mice, civets, monkey, and a favorite because it gets sick like us, the ferret. I'm sure there are many more.
I wonder if they ever tried pangolins.
LolI referred to the mice as genetically modified, not mutant. The last mutant comment was a poor attempt at humor.
I don't support a manmade, deliberately released virus. Actually, I haven't accepted any of the theories as truth yet.
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I try to weed out the science from the 'junk' when I read on this. The only science being offered is also theory. Some point to good evidence against it being manmade. Ok. Great. But that doesn't mean that the virus didn't come from the lab, maybe even accidentally.
I have an opinion on how much time is worth investing into the idea of a lab leak possibly due to incompetence?
First though, how do you feel about 'Gain of Function' research? That shit is no joke. Their job is to make viruses better suited to infect humans. I think we, humans, the whole world should be interested in the answer.
Though I don't think we will ever find out for sure.
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Gain of function research is fairly routine, but for some reason has been memed into significance. It becomes a kind of devil term much like "fissible" or "genetically modified" or "cloning" or even occasionally "antimatter." These terms are sometimes used to evoke the usual Frankensteinian nightmares that people have about science being out of control due to methods that represent a clear and present danger. Usually the tradeoff set of values is the precautionary principle wherein we lay certain research aside because its risks are too great.
Should credible evidence emerge that COVID-19 had some kind of lab origins I expect we'll see an international move to ban or severely limit any gain of function research. This is why it's worth investigating, I suppose; I.e. to rule it out through non-laboratory means. We've already seen how the idea of a "wet market" became a devil term due to speculation about the animal crossing taking place there and then subsequent crackdown and proposal to ban them even though now it seems the virus was around slightly before it became tied to the exposures at the market.
At the end of the day, these are words that can invoke more danger than they realistically represent, but I tend to believe a little more public attention to certain areas of science isn't a bad thing. Even if policy responses can sometimes come with their own risks, there seems to be a net benefit to people paying closer attention to these things.
but you don't see a conflict of interest for Kristian Anderson or Peter Daszak?
You should be aware that he is 100% all in on "Everything that happened was Trump's fault."
@Filthy now we can say we have at least a shred of evidence that can put the lab leak hypothesis on the table again. Let's see if we get more.WSJ News Exclusive | Intelligence on Sick Staff at Wuhan Lab Fuels Debate on Covid-19 Origin
Three researchers from the Wuhan Institute of Virology became sick enough in November 2019 that they sought hospital care, according to a U.S. intelligence report, fueling debate over Covid-19’s origin.
www.wsj.com
China Refutes Wuhan Lab Leak Theory as Researchers' Illness Fuels Debate
China has pushed back on being the origin of the pandemic and has continued to peddle the unfounded theory that America was the starting point.
www.newsweek.com
It's hard to believe you're this ignorant.
WSJ News Exclusive | Intelligence on Sick Staff at Wuhan Lab Fuels Debate on Covid-19 Origin
Three researchers from the Wuhan Institute of Virology became sick enough in November 2019 that they sought hospital care, according to a U.S. intelligence report, fueling debate over Covid-19’s origin.
China Refutes Wuhan Lab Leak Theory as Researchers' Illness Fuels Debate
China has pushed back on being the origin of the pandemic and has continued to peddle the unfounded theory that America was the starting point.
You realize there was never a shred of evidence of step-wise natural progression?
WSJ News Exclusive | Intelligence on Sick Staff at Wuhan Lab Fuels Debate on Covid-19 Origin
Three researchers from the Wuhan Institute of Virology became sick enough in November 2019 that they sought hospital care, according to a U.S. intelligence report, fueling debate over Covid-19’s origin.
China Refutes Wuhan Lab Leak Theory as Researchers' Illness Fuels Debate
China has pushed back on being the origin of the pandemic and has continued to peddle the unfounded theory that America was the starting point.
Or nah?
