Time for the sport to evolve.
Ring girls should be doing a minute of fem-friendly soft porn between rounds.
RIP HBO Boxing
- Thread starter D241
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Ring girls should be doing a minute of fem-friendly soft porn between rounds.
Timeline is fine. BALCO went tits up in 2002 and Roy only fought the slow, shitty HW Ruiz inbetween balco collapse and him falling apart as far as I remember. Also, a grown man in his 30's who has been training his whole life can't just put on 25 or so pounds of pure muscle naturally. That statement that people use as an alternative to why he fell apart (putting on and dropping the weight) is actually a statement in favor of him using...
And as an alternative discussion: let's say he never used roids in his life and his collapse was just age. Then who did he beat that was so impressive? He decisioned Bernard and later lost to him. I am sitting here struggling to remember who he beat that was meaningful.
Imo RJJ is just another Tyson. All flash and hype that lost to most of his significant competition...
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James Toney, Vinny Paz, Felix Trinidad, Bhop...and he's a natural 165 who won a HW belt. And nobody wanted to be in RJJ's division.
Here's a physiological explanation for RJJ's fall. Slow-twitch muscles build mass faster than fast-twitch muscles. Roy targeted 'growth' in his workout regimes to get to HW, increasing the % of his muscle fiber that was slow-twitch. When he cut back 25 lbs of muscle, it's the fast-twitch that atrophies quickly. So his percentage of slow-twitch at 175 was much higher after cycling up and back down in weight. Because of his age, Roy was unable to rebuild the necessary muscles that he had spent his whole life developing. He came back after KOs too quickly, against too dangerous competition, and too advanced of an age.
I think you're basically going to be left with "correlation = causation" and "the eye test" for PED use.
I'm sorry but lol @ your "scientific" analysis of your Roy slow-twitch vs. fast twitch muscle development and loss theory. The man was like 33 or 34 and put on a shit-ton of muscle. You can't do that naturally. Period. End of story. He was juiced to the gills against Ruiz and then he didn't have any more of his magical, designer BALCO juice to sustain him so he spiraled into a funk. That is not an eye test. That is logic backed up by basic knowledge of human physiology. And, of course, without written proof from BALCO records or failed PED tests ALL of us are left to simple guess at causation. We wouldn't be having this convo if any of that existed.
- Trinidad was mostly a joke who hit hard.
- I'll give you Vinny. He was tough.
- James Toney is the other real legit win.
- He split with Bernard, losing to him later and refusing to fight Bernard when he was really hot and at his peak. I remember the two of them fighting on an HBO interview with Roy screaming "60/40" over and over again, referring to the fact that Bernard had to take less pay than Roy if he wanted to fight him. Really just an excuse for Roy to dodge him.
- Roy didn't seek out any big fights. People weren't dodging him, he was dodging them - like Bernard. That was the main reason I stopped liking the guy back then. All he wanted was easy fights where he could look flashy and some rappers to escort him to the ring...
You say it can't be done, so it can't be done. According to science, an average man can add 1-2 lbs of muscle a month. So alpha-athletes with access to the best diet and exercise routines could obviously never put on 15lbs of muscle in 7 months? The guy was fighting at 175 after a camp, how much do you think he had to add?
And you have no other evidence.
And you have no other evidence.
Why do you say that?
BALCO was raided in September of 03. He beat Tarver in their first fight which was after the raid.
I'm also still curious about your sources regarding your BALCO claims.
damn he was a sexy beastRJJ flexing after weigh-ins at 175lb fight
Roy flexing the ring after the Ruiz decision
loved his chicken fighting style...although he actually reminded me more of a Cat because of his insane speed and reactions
From Wikipedia:
"Conte, Arnold and Anderson continued selling these substances undetected from 1988 until 2002 when the official federal investigation of BALCO began. Parallel with this investigation, the USADA began its own covert investigation of Conte and his operation."
The heat was on since 2002 and Sept 2003 was the end of it. He fought Tarver for the 1st time in Nov of 2003 and people felt he lost, thus the immediate rematch in April 2004 where his collapse began. Pretty clear his supply just ran out after Sept 2003. Anyone who knows a little about steroid use knows that you almost always cycle off considerably before your fight or sporting event (unless roids are legal) anyway because the gains stay for a while. Even if Roy had no supplies after the day of the raid he'd be ok and regardless of any of that he did very poorly against Antonio in Nov and then got flatlined by him 5 months later.
The timeline is almost PERFECT actually...
As long as we ignore that when you say they stopped providing is a year before his massive size gain, and that BALCO and Jones didn't actually work together, right?
If you'd like to learn more about BALCO I posted a thread about the history of the company in this sub-forum.
Hilarious. At first I’m like what and then I laughed.
don't you get it? BOTH THINGS HAPPENED IN 2002-2003!!!
obviously Pete Sampras was a huge fucking steroid cheat, as evidenced by the fact that he retired in 2002.
A.) They didn't close down in 2002
B.) I'm sure their clients weren't getting a 1 month supply at a time..........
Keep worshiping a guy who beat only a couple of impressive guys, magically put on 25lbs. of muscle at age 33 and then fell apart as soon as he lost his supplier and faced a top line fighter and then a middle tier guy who both completely out-boxed him and put him to sleep spectacularly. There are literally no excuses for why he fell apart outside of losing his steroid supplier that can pass the straight face test.
RJJ was a flashy joke. Not even Top 20 all time in his general weight-class...
Good point. No other professional athlete experiences a decline in abilities in their mid-30s.
Any evidence that BALCO supplied anything to RJJ ever?
Nope.
And if you think he wasn't roided out of his mind and then fell off a cliff because he lost his roids than you are a fool my fren...
Shane Mosely even admitted to taking BALCO supplies as late as his prep for his Sept 2003 fight with De La Hoya.
Didn't you read what
@Haulport wrote? It's not only the obvious time correlation, it's also that Roy only beat 'slow, shitty Ruiz'. The shitty Ruiz that beat Hasim Rahman (who everybody was ducking) and Holyfield. The guy who only lost belts to controversial decisions (screwed twice against Valuev) and 'roided up MWs known for their power and speed. Respectively Toney (actually roided) and RJJ (who obviously roided obviously). Obviously slow. Ruiz barely made Boxing.com's list of 100 Greatest HWs of All Time. Obviously a shitty HW Can.
To be fair, like everyone else in the sport, RJJ did roid. It just didn't have anything to do with BALCO.Didn't you read what
Ruiz barely made Boxing.com's list of 100 Greatest HWs of All Time. Obviously a shitty HW Can.
it's 2018, and commissions/promoters are basically at "we're going to address PED use pretty soon"