Sakuraba vs Royce 20 Years Later

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kneeblock

Don't it always seem to go
Apr 18, 2015
10,197
18,946
He wanted to make him quit and he did. After Royler he saw how the "I never actually tapped" narratives came up and said F that.

Only problem is he never should've been there because Guy Mezger had whipped him pillar to post and would have advanced, but Ken pulled him.
 

Dickless Cage

banned on the U.G.
Dec 23, 2015
2,590
2,591
was very close vs guy
i often wonder how guy vs royce woulda looked
certainly guy wouldnt be taken down or outstruck.....
oh and the rematch where royce roided off the charts, literally... royce did not win that
 

Le Chat Noir

Le Chat Noir ©
Jan 28, 2020
1,223
1,831
He wanted to make him quit and he did. After Royler he saw how the "I never actually tapped" narratives came up and said F that.

Only problem is he never should've been there because Guy Mezger had whipped him pillar to post and would have advanced, but Ken pulled him.
I agree. I remember at the time the Gracie faithful tried to claim Saku tapped from the guillotine.



Le Chat Noir
©
 

Saloth Sar

Let's take a little trip to the countryside
Dec 1, 2015
5,858
9,979
He wanted to make him quit and he did. After Royler he saw how the "I never actually tapped" narratives came up and said F that.

Only problem is he never should've been there because Guy Mezger had whipped him pillar to post and would have advanced, but Ken pulled him.
It was a robbery but Ken was a moron (shocking, I know) for doing that. All I've ever seen is people praise him 'making a stand' but what did he achieve other than hurt Mezger's career? How is walking away from a fight you are winning and completely fucking yourself a smart decision?

One thing I used to remember about K1 was that there was always fuckery to declare a draw so they could get the extra round, but usually they called that extra round fairly straight down the line.

The fact a draw was declared in Sak-Guy, rather than just handing the robbery straight to him, by itself hows there was some limit to how far they would go to fuck Mezger.

If Guy had come out and soundly beaten Sak in that extra round, Pride would have relented.
 

kneeblock

Don't it always seem to go
Apr 18, 2015
10,197
18,946
It was a robbery but Ken was a moron (shocking, I know) for doing that. All I've ever seen is people praise him 'making a stand' but what did he achieve other than hurt Mezger's career? How is walking away from a fight you are winning and completely fucking yourself a smart decision?

One thing I used to remember about K1 was that there was always fuckery to declare a draw so they could get the extra round, but usually they called that extra round fairly straight down the line.

The fact a draw was declared in Sak-Guy, rather than just handing the robbery straight to him, by itself hows there was some limit to how far they would go to fuck Mezger.

If Guy had come out and soundly beaten Sak in that extra round, Pride would have relented.
In hindsight, it definitely looks like Ken screwed up big time and hurt Guy's career, but if you consider it at the time, it's not so crazy.

Both Ken and Guy had fought in Japan for some time. They knew the scene and also had popularity there among MMA fans. At the time, Pride had only held 8 events, and even though it was attracting names that were high profile in the US, other than Takada, it hadn't really had big names from Japan. Guy had also fought for them before and been largely screwed over in the decision for his fight with Akira Shoji. Add to this Pride being only semi-legit in those early KRS days with Takada doing some outright pro wrestling matches in the promotion and some supposedly legit matches that were obvious works (see Coleman vs Takada). Pride was already Yakuza affiliated by this time too. In the grand scheme of things to Ken and Guy, Pride likely seemed like just one of many organizations, and possibly a dirty one at that. Guy ended up spending the rest of his career there, of course, and got screwed plenty more in decisions and Wanderlei headbutts.

When you look at how important the Grand Prix was in hindsight, it was largely because Sak beat Royce and then Coleman surprised folks by winning it all. If Guy had won and then beaten Royce, he probably wouldn't have gotten past Vovchanchyn, but that would've been a fun fight. Still, the whole narrative would've changed. No Gracie Hunter. For all we know, Shoji could've been the one to get the big push. Pride doing whatever it could to keep pushing Sak was key to why the promotion took off.
 

Saloth Sar

Let's take a little trip to the countryside
Dec 1, 2015
5,858
9,979
Isn't this the fight Roy tested 25 times over the limit for roids?
It's bizarre that so many fans got their panties twisted about this. Sak fought in Pride. He fought guys like Wanderlei and Arona in their juiced up primes.

41-year-old Royce being on the juice is hardly some unspeakable crime in MMA. It's just what everyone did.
 

Dickless Cage

banned on the U.G.
Dec 23, 2015
2,590
2,591
It's bizarre that so many fans got their panties twisted about this. Sak fought in Pride. He fought guys like Wanderlei and Arona in their juiced up primes.

41-year-old Royce being on the juice is hardly some unspeakable crime in MMA. It's just what everyone did.
well apparantly saku did not
he passed the tests
royce failed, yet his win was never overturned
thats probably why people are still pissd about royce roiding