Tank vs Shamrock 1996..Who wins

[teamquestnorth]

This fight was supposed to happen in the 2nd round at UU 96 but Shamrock broke his hand against Johnstons dome.

Who would have won that scrap? Could have been legendary. Ken looked real good that night and of course so did Tank.

The only positive out of the Shamrock injury was we got the Nelmark KO. One of the greatest of all time.

 

[Priziesthorse]

Shamrock via being born on the east coast.

 

[teamquestnorth]

Shamrock via being born on the east coast.

For some reason the West coaster Tank never once got injured and pulled out of a fight.

Ken on the other hand....

Must be something in the water over here.

 

[Priziesthorse]

For some reason the West coaster Tank never once got injured and pulled out of a fight.

Ken on the other hand....

Must be something in the water over here.

All jokes aside, I think Ken would have dominated Tank. Tank was a tough guy and I guess he would have had a puncher's chance, but Ken was too strong, fast, and agile for Tank.

 

[Robbie Hart]

All jokes aside, I think Ken would have dominated Tank. Tank was a tough guy and I guess he would have had a puncher's chance, but Ken was too strong, fast, and agile for Tank.

Tank would have dropped the hammers on him (and I'm an east coast guy, mind you) and ken would have wilted..............................Tank dropped bombs and Shamrock wouldn't have like the taste.......

 

[Wild]

I think Ken would have demolished Tank.

 

[Priziesthorse]

Tank would have dropped the hammers on him (and I'm an east coast guy, mind you) and ken would have wilted..............................Tank dropped bombs and Shamrock wouldn't have like the taste.......

 

[John M]

I think Ken would have demolished Tank.

 

[Robbie Hart]

Funny, however in watching tanks highlight video you can clearly see he was very technical in his striking and was always in for the long haul.........actually after watching that video, might have to agree that Ken would most likely have been the better man back then. I ink tank may have been hammered/drunk half the time

 

[Fiend]

It would have been the same as the Don Frye fight. Shamrock eat some punches but in the end submits Tank.

 

[Γαλάνης]

Probably Ken because of conditioning if he could survive the initial onslaught

I would still pay money to watch this today. I paid money for Tank vs Ferrozzo 2 in a back yard for fucks sake (and loved it even though it was ridiculous). No way I wouldn't watch this even if they were in a nursing home.

 

[megatherium]

Shammy without working up much of a sweat

 

[ECC170]

Kenny via superior graplling...

 

[Robbie Hart]

Probably Ken because of conditioning if he could survive the initial onslaught

I would still pay money to watch this today. I paid money for Tank vs Ferrozzo 2 in a back yard for fucks sake (and loved it even though it was ridiculous). No way I wouldn't watch this even if they were in a nursing home.

Probably naive not knowing you well, but you watched that fight in the backyard, ie were there?

 

[ECC170]

Tank vs James Thompson would have been fun even though diff era..

 

[megatherium]

For some reason the West coaster Tank never once got injured and pulled out of a fight.

Ken on the other hand....

Must be something in the water over here.

They actually created the 'superfight' for Ken because of this.

Tank liked to point out to Ken that he went to a tournament final.

 

[megatherium]

oops - delete

 

[Γαλάνης]

Probably naive not knowing you well, but you watched that fight in the backyard, ie were there?

No lol, I wish. At the time it came out you had to pay money to watch it on the website. Like $10 or something.

I could've waited til it hit Youtube and shit but the idea was so epic, ridiculous, silly, amazing etc.. that I had to watch it right away. Of course, it was on free video/torrent sites the next day or something, but still, I wanted to watch it ASAP.

 

[Γαλάνης]

The thing about this fight, though

All Tank needed was 1 punch. It's not like he was 1 dimensional, at the time he actually utilized his wrestling well and was just so powerful. You gotta wonder, if Frye and Oleg had trouble with him so badly, would Ken really just blow through him? I don't think he would.. It'd be a war.

He was beating Don Frye's ass, who IMO was much more skilled than Ken in all areas.. But Tank tripped over his own two feet, fell n the ground and got choked out. If that didn't happen, he probably would've won that fight handily. In the entire 70 or so seconds before that, he was killing Frye. Not making excuses either - it's just what actually happened, lol. Somehow it fits Tank perfectly.

He was also screwed big time in both that tournie and the final against Oleg. Both times he fought in the finals (Don and Oleg), they were fresh and coming off worked bullshit fights that ended in seconds (Anthony Macias and Mark Hall).. whereas Tank actually had to fight every single time out.

Pretty weird to think about - the two worked fights, and Tank tripping over his own 2 feet in the Frye bout. The Oleg match was also epic and ended up being a war of attrition. You gotta wonder - if Oleg and Don actually had the same amount of real fights Tank did those nights... Would they have been able to survive Tank's onslaught? Because Tank was beating them both up pretty bad, and like I said, they basically cheated to get to the finals.

I'm a huge Frye fan, more than Tank, Oleg, Ken.. Just reality, though - it's what actually happened.

Poor Tank.. worked fights, tripping over his own shoes, etc. He was never meant to win those titles, lol, the NHB gods were like "nope, we don't care how close yu get, SOMETHING will happen each time"

 

[Γαλάνης]

Ken was also primed for success but was never able to quite reach the level he should have

Art Davie had a quote (or maybe it was Meyrowitz), and they said "Every time we put the spear in Ken's hand, he would find a way to drop it".

It's true.. Just as an example..the night of the "Great Dance" with Severn (aka the worst fight ever), so many things were riding on Ken in that fight. Sports Illustrated was there and if he won, they were going to put Ken on the cover and do a massive story about him and the UFC.

Instead, the fight went as horrible as possible. We all know about the bizarre "open hand strikes only" thing that happened that night.. and yet, no fighters actually had to abide to that rule. John would yell "no closed fists", but they still did it in every single fight and no one faced repercussions later.

Ken stated later on that he did not want to put a black eye on the sport, get in trouble over the stupid no punching rule, etc. But the thing is.. Even backstage, Bob Shamrock was telling him "It doesn't matter about the closed fist, Ken. Treat this as a Pancrase match, which you have won many of, and it will be fine. Just go out there and win"

But he froze, and MMA was set back quite a bit over that absolutely god awful fight. There was over 10,000 people in attendance that night - CRAZY considering the era of the sport.

Just imagine, if that fight had gone differently and was exciting.. How different MMA history would've been? With support from Sports Illustrated it's possible that a lot of the negative stigma would have been put to the side by casual viewers who didn't understand what they were looking at.

Instead, worst fight ever, goes over the PPV limit time so all buys had to be refunded, SI leaves and doesn't come back for YEARS.

Just crazy. I only bring this up, because like Tank, the SEG brass really, really pushed Ken and tried to give him all the opportunities to win that they could. Yet somehow, it never really worked out to the degree it should have.

But everything happens for a reason, because look at where we are now.

Just a crazy piece of history that I really find fascinating. So many things back then that, had they gone slightly differently, might have changed the sport forever.

 

[Γαλάνης]

And also just to clarify - I am not hating on Tank or Ken at all. Just talking about the way stuff went down on those particular evenings where they both had a lot riding on them winning, yet for whatever bizarre reasons (fixed fights, Tank tripping, Ken and Dan's horrible rematch with the altered rules), it didn't happen. They are both 2 of my all time favorites, especially of the old days.

I just find this period of the sport to be so amazing t read about, watch, etc. When you know everything that went on behind the scenes that led into all these crazy fights, it just adds to the aura of how wild those early UFCs were, man. UFC 3 is another example of a crazy event where everything just went off the rails in and outside the cage. I think I've watched the first 15 UFCs 100s of times combined. They never get old.

I actually just got the Ultimate Ultimate 2 (1996) onto DVD the other day for $3 at a used video game store. I had a crappy quality VHS rip that I have watched 100 times on my PC. But now I actually have the full DVD now, with menus, FULL picture quality, etc.

I can't wait to watch it. Possibly my favorite UFC tournament ever. In fact, I am going to hit play right now.

Really amazing to see these old fights in such crystal clear picture. Makes them more "real" to me.

 

[Ryann Von Doom]

Ken by leg lock

 

[ChaosOverkill]

Ken, Tank was looking like he was going to be the brawler of note but he lost to Ferrozzo, Belfort, Frye and Smith all in that year and three months 3 of 4 much smaller than him

I think Ken is too crafty and skilled. Punchers chance then Ken picks him apart.

2002 Frye and Shamrock split for Ken, 1996 Ken was a monster, have to think he even by wonky MMA math and everything else and Tank losing by exhaustion to Maurice Smith that Ken wins. Not to mention Tank lost to Oleg by sub who drew with Ken. The math back then was much more relevant as the styles were so much more separated so any well rounded guys or grappling specialists with chins won most of the matches against bigger guys.

Making Maurice Smith vs Coleman the shocker of the decade back then.

Not 10/10 but 7/10 +

 

[Γαλάνης]

Hard to compare by 2002 Ken and Frye though. They were both already heavily into pro wrestling and had jacked themselves up with massive amounts of roids to the point they had so much muscle it was detrimental to their fighting ability. Plus all of the injuries they had from wrestling.

I know Ken was a pro wrestler before a fighter but his big run in the WWF when he was absolutely massive s what did the damage I'm talking about.. and Frye was a gigantic super star wrestler in Japan, like the #2 guy in the entire company that was on top.. but he was also way, way bigger than he ever was in the UFC. Like 30-40 lbs of mass.

That fight is one of my all time favorites. Any other man that night would've tapped to Shamrock. Frye walked away with BOTH ankles broken and one knee completely shredded. Both men were never the same after that fight, but Frye in particular got hooked on pain killers really bad. He lost 6 fights in a row after his Shamrock fight, save for one TKO win in PRIDE that he had. Before that, he'd only lost a single fight in his career. Obviously he had declined due to the reasons mentioned above (pro wrestling, getting too gigantic, getting older and the drugs).. but still, that was one of those career changing fights. Frye might have had a little longer shelf life had he tapped out, but that wasn't gonna happen. Gotta admire that determination.

He was KO'd really bad be Lebanner in late 2002 after the Ken fight in a K1 match. Headkick knockout. Frye has talked about how he only took that fight for a massive paycheck (somthing like 300k) and his legs were still destroyed frm the Ken fight, so he had to go in the ring floating n pain pills and who knows what else. Despite that, it was still a good fight.

Both absolute legends. Even Tank, too. You can't just go by records with early Tank, because he lost the Frye fight himself. He was winnng handily before tripping on his own accord. He also went near 17 mins or whatever with Oleg. So, you never really know what Tank would've shown up that night if he and Ken ever fought. In the earliest days of the UFC, Tank was very very dangerous. He went into the Ferrozzo fight with a bad knee injury and was already on his way downhill by that period. I'm just talking about those first 2-3 tournies.. that's when Tank was at his best, and would've been a handful for anybody.

 

[Γαλάνης]

In the end though. Tank always ended up losing to the more well rounded skilled guy. Even though he tripped over his own two feet in the Frye fight right before he probably would've won by TKO. He still lost. And almost doesn't count

Still though. UFC 6 and UU96 Tank is a bad man. After that, the guys had long past him by and he refused to evolve or even train.