The incredibly padded record of Tony Ferguson

[Sheepdog]

While there is a lot of sympathy for Tony Ferguson being denied a title shot for so many years, the reality is that Tony has never beaten any other current member of the UFC LW top 5.

Aside from beating RDA, who himself has still gone 5-5 in his last 10 fights, Tony's UFC career has mostly consisted of beating shot fighters, subsequently exposed hype trains or journymen.

Cowboy and Pettis have each lost 6 of their last 10 while Kevin Lee is 2-3 in his last 5. Barboza is 5-6 in his last 11, Josh Thomson had lost 4/6 before losing to Tony. Tibau went 5-6 in last 11 UFC fights, with Tony being his 4th last fight. Yves Edwards went 4-6-1 in his 11-fight final UFC stint when he lost to Tony.

As for the career journeymen, Vannata is 2-4-2 in the UFC, Trujillo went 6-4-1 in his UFC career, Castillo went 7-7, Kikuno 2-3, Rio 1-3, Nijem 5-5, Aaron Riley 3-6.

Tony's one UFC loss was to a guy who is 11-11 in his UFC career, another .500 fighter.

When Tony beat Kevin Lee for the interim belt, Lee's best wins were over Chiesa and Trinaldo. We now know that Lee really had no business fighting for that belt in the first place.

Only one of Tony's victims has subsequently gone on to even fight for an interim title, that being RDA once, with 0 winning one and 0 even fighting for a proper title. Compare that with Conor, where Aldo, Max and Poirier still went on to become title holders after losing to Conor. Alvarez (who KOd RDA before Tony beat him) would also at least KO a current top 5er subsequent to losing to Conor.

Basically, either Tony's opponents never were legit title contenders, or had stopped being so by the time he fought them.

So don't feel too sorry for Ferg.

 

[The Big Guy]

 

[Rambo John J]

While there is a lot of sympathy for Tony Ferguson being denied a title shot for so many years, the reality is that Tony has never beaten any other current member of the UFC LW top 5.

Aside from beating RDA, who himself has still gone 5-5 in his last 10 fights, Tony's UFC career has mostly consisted of beating shot fighters, subsequently exposed hype trains or journymen.

Cowboy and Pettis have each lost 6 of their last 10 while Kevin Lee is 2-3 in his last 5. Barboza is 5-6 in his last 11, Josh Thomson had lost 4/6 before losing to Tony. Tibau went 5-6 in last 11 UFC fights, with Tony being his 4th last fight. Yves Edwards went 4-6-1 in his 11-fight final UFC stint when he lost to Tony.

As for the career journeymen, Vannata is 2-4-2 in the UFC, Trujillo went 6-4-1 in his UFC career, Castillo went 7-7, Kikuno 2-3, Rio 1-3, Nijem 5-5, Aaron Riley 3-6.

Tony's one UFC loss was to a guy who is 11-11 in his UFC career, another .500 fighter.

When Tony beat Kevin Lee for the interim belt, Lee's best wins were over Chiesa and Trinaldo. We now know that Lee really had no business fighting for that belt in the first place.

Only one of Tony's victims has subsequently gone on to even fight for an interim title, that being RDA once, with 0 winning one and 0 even fighting for a proper title. Compare that with Conor, where Aldo, Max and Poirier still went on to become title holders after losing to Conor. Alvarez (who KOd RDA before Tony beat him) would also at least KO a current top 5er subsequent to losing to Conor.

Basically, either Tony's opponents never were legit title contenders, or had stopped being so by the time he fought them.

So don't feel too sorry for Ferg.

 

[member 3289]

I've always thought he was overrated as well.

Tough, but overrated. He arguably lost to Danny Castillo.

 

[Jdog93]

While there is a lot of sympathy for Tony Ferguson being denied a title shot for so many years, the reality is that Tony has never beaten any other current member of the UFC LW top 5.

Aside from beating RDA, who himself has still gone 5-5 in his last 10 fights, Tony's UFC career has mostly consisted of beating shot fighters, subsequently exposed hype trains or journymen.

Cowboy and Pettis have each lost 6 of their last 10 while Kevin Lee is 2-3 in his last 5. Barboza is 5-6 in his last 11, Josh Thomson had lost 4/6 before losing to Tony. Tibau went 5-6 in last 11 UFC fights, with Tony being his 4th last fight. Yves Edwards went 4-6-1 in his 11-fight final UFC stint when he lost to Tony.

As for the career journeymen, Vannata is 2-4-2 in the UFC, Trujillo went 6-4-1 in his UFC career, Castillo went 7-7, Kikuno 2-3, Rio 1-3, Nijem 5-5, Aaron Riley 3-6.

Tony's one UFC loss was to a guy who is 11-11 in his UFC career, another .500 fighter.

When Tony beat Kevin Lee for the interim belt, Lee's best wins were over Chiesa and Trinaldo. We now know that Lee really had no business fighting for that belt in the first place.

Only one of Tony's victims has subsequently gone on to even fight for an interim title, that being RDA once, with 0 winning one and 0 even fighting for a proper title. Compare that with Conor, where Aldo, Max and Poirier still went on to become title holders after losing to Conor. Alvarez (who KOd RDA before Tony beat him) would also at least KO a current top 5er subsequent to losing to Conor.

Basically, either Tony's opponents never were legit title contenders, or had stopped being so by the time he fought them.

So don't feel too sorry for Ferg.

 

[Rambo John J]

12 UFC wins in a row
that is legit as it gets sonny

 

[sparkuri]

What a terrible thread.

Castillo lost 3 of 4 to end his career by split decision, including to Ferguson, while his other losses were to great fighters at that weight class. Castillo was a very good fighter who hung with the best in the world.

Gregor Gillespie hype train was just derailed by Lee, so....

Every single point you made can be retorted with logical explanation, rather than mma math.

Tony has won 12 in a row against everyone put in front of him in the self-proclaimed best in the world.
He's won tournaments, KO of the night, several fotn & potn's, and finished people never finished before.
His fight vs. Barboza, the first round was arguably the best opening round display of skill ever seen in MMA history.

I could literally tear down every single fighter that's ever fought in any organization, including the undefeated, by demeaning their opponents.

Terrible thread.

 

[Sheepdog]

I've always thought he was overrated as well.

Tough, but overrated. He arguably lost to Danny Castillo.

Agreed about Castillo.

Even the RDA fight, which is easily his best win - I don't want to go too far, but the reality is that the fight was sandwiched between RDA coming off a KO loss and then leaving the division. Clearly RDA himself didn't feel he was right at 155 any more.

For those of us who have some idea about what we are looking at, you watch Tony fight you see an incredibly hittable guy with many technical flaws. You've seen him get dropped by Lando Vannata. You've seen him get picked apart by Michael Johnson as a younger fighter and you haven't seen dramatic technical improvements since. And yes you've seen him beat Barboza, but you had to see him get smashed before he did it.

Then people try to convince you that your lying eyes are deceiving you - "he's just just 'unorthodox', his record proves it". But his record just really isn't as great as people think it is.

 

[Sheepdog]

What a terrible thread.

Castillo lost 3 of 4 to end his career by split decision, including to Ferguson, while his other losses were to great fighters at that weight class. Castillo was a very good fighter who hung with the best in the world.

Gregor Gillespie hype train was just derailed by Lee, so....

Every single point you made can be retorted with logical explanation, rather than mma math.

Tony has won 12 in a row against everyone put in front of him in the self-proclaimed best in the world.
He's won tournaments, KO of the night, several fotn & potn's, and finished people never finished before.
His fight vs. Barboza, the first round was arguably the best opening round display of skill ever seen in MMA history.

I could literally tear down every single fighter that's ever fought in any organization, including the undefeated, by demeaning their opponents.

Terrible thread.

You could try 'tearing down' Conor, Khabib or Dustin the way I've 'teared down' Tony but it wouldn't work. The first two guy's records are obviously better and Dustin has beaten the other guy in the top 5 and has also KOed the guy who KOd Tony's best win. The fact is, all 4 of the other top 5 guys either already have or would slaughter all of Tony's best wins too.

Tony is a deservedly top 5 fighter and deserves a title shot. But his record isn't what his fans think it is.

 

[sparkuri]

You could try 'tearing down' Conor, Khabib or Dustin the way I've 'teared down' Tony but it wouldn't work.

I haven't sharpened my sword since the taco bell days; challenge accepted.

 

[Splinty]

OP you're an incredible curmudgeon. @MMAHAWK should have you on to give an unpopular opinion segment a few times a year.

 

[RaginCajun]

 

[MMAHAWK]

OP you're an incredible curmudgeon. @MMAHAWK should have you on to give an unpopular opinion segment a few times a year.

I like that idea and I’ve got some To drop tomorrow night on the show. I’m pretty much open to having anyone reasonable on the show but they have to be willing to be on camera and use a real name ( I have no idea if it’s actually real). @Wild is the only exception we allow because I don’t want to fuck up his moonshine trade by outing him. You might get a pass too if I get on that damn yacht one day.

 

[Jdog93]

What a terrible thread.

Castillo lost 3 of 4 to end his career by split decision, including to Ferguson, while his other losses were to great fighters at that weight class. Castillo was a very good fighter who hung with the best in the world.

Gregor Gillespie hype train was just derailed by Lee, so....

Every single point you made can be retorted with logical explanation, rather than mma math.

Tony has won 12 in a row against everyone put in front of him in the self-proclaimed best in the world.
He's won tournaments, KO of the night, several fotn & potn's, and finished people never finished before.
His fight vs. Barboza, the first round was arguably the best opening round display of skill ever seen in MMA history.

I could literally tear down every single fighter that's ever fought in any organization, including the undefeated, by demeaning their opponents.

Terrible thread.

 

[Sheepdog]

OP you're an incredible curmudgeon. @MMAHAWK should have you on to give an unpopular opinion segment a few times a year.

I like that idea and I’ve got some To drop tomorrow night on the show. I’m pretty much open to having anyone reasonable on the show but they have to be willing to be on camera and use a real name ( I have no idea if it’s actually real). @Wild is the only exception we allow because I don’t want to fuck up his moonshine trade by outing him. You might get a pass too if I get on that damn yacht one day.

I've always thought if I was ever going to take up MMA media, it would be to out-curmudgeon Luke Thomas. But for now, I think I will stick to cleaning toilets at Pizza Hut.

I'm not sure this opinion is that unpopular. I'm actually shilling for Conor in a way - hell, if Dana reads this thread, he might use it as an excuse to shaft Tony out of another title shot.

I just thought it was interesting to break down his record, and people should face facts. Since Tony beat RDA he has only fought once a year in 2017, 2018 and 2019 and the Pettis, Cowboy and Lee wins really haven't aged all that well.

Record padding is all it really is, as each fight was a significant step down in competition from RDA.

 

[Thuglife13]

Can't wait til T-Ferg beats the brakes off Shish Khabib unless "Team Tiramisu" returns and pulls out once again like the pullout merchant he is...

 

[Jehannum]

While there is a lot of sympathy for Tony Ferguson being denied a title shot for so many years, the reality is that Tony has never beaten any other current member of the UFC LW top 5.

Aside from beating RDA, who himself has still gone 5-5 in his last 10 fights, Tony's UFC career has mostly consisted of beating shot fighters, subsequently exposed hype trains or journymen.

Cowboy and Pettis have each lost 6 of their last 10 while Kevin Lee is 2-3 in his last 5. Barboza is 5-6 in his last 11, Josh Thomson had lost 4/6 before losing to Tony. Tibau went 5-6 in last 11 UFC fights, with Tony being his 4th last fight. Yves Edwards went 4-6-1 in his 11-fight final UFC stint when he lost to Tony.

As for the career journeymen, Vannata is 2-4-2 in the UFC, Trujillo went 6-4-1 in his UFC career, Castillo went 7-7, Kikuno 2-3, Rio 1-3, Nijem 5-5, Aaron Riley 3-6.

Tony's one UFC loss was to a guy who is 11-11 in his UFC career, another .500 fighter.

When Tony beat Kevin Lee for the interim belt, Lee's best wins were over Chiesa and Trinaldo. We now know that Lee really had no business fighting for that belt in the first place.

Only one of Tony's victims has subsequently gone on to even fight for an interim title, that being RDA once, with 0 winning one and 0 even fighting for a proper title. Compare that with Conor, where Aldo, Max and Poirier still went on to become title holders after losing to Conor. Alvarez (who KOd RDA before Tony beat him) would also at least KO a current top 5er subsequent to losing to Conor.

Basically, either Tony's opponents never were legit title contenders, or had stopped being so by the time he fought them.

So don't feel too sorry for Ferg.

Not bad but Poirier won the interim LW title against the champion from the weight class before, not sure that really counts.

 

[Jehannum]

Can't wait til T-Ferg beats the brakes off Shish Khabib unless "Team Tiramisu" returns and pulls out once again like the pullout merchant he is...

4 times it's been scheduled, twice Khabib pulled out and twice Tony pulled out. Common knowledge brah

 

[Jehannum]

man I don't know why I didn't put sunglasses on Tony in that one, missed opportunity ^^

 

[Sheepdog]

Not bad but Poirier won the interim LW title against the champion from the weight class before, not sure that really counts.

Sure, but even then Dustin beat Gaethje, the other current top 5 LW. Point is, Conor has a far better resume not just in terms of wins, but what those wins went on to do after he beat them.

Since Ferguson beat RDA, a group of the other top guys have had to fight each other. Poirier, Khabib, Conor, Alvarez, Gaethje. These are the 5 guys in those 4 years that were at the top of the heap and all five have fought at least two of the other five. Tony hasn't had to fight a single one of them. He's been unlucky with injuries, but not in who he's had to fight to get his opportunities.

 

[tang]

Conor has a far better resume not just in terms of wins, but what those wins went on to do after he beat them.

this just means that Conor fought them before all of them hit their primes, so Conor fought the weakest versions of them?

 

[Dick Niaz]

...the reality is that Tony has never beaten any other current member of the UFC LW top 5..

That is a bit of a moving target, don't you think? You have to judge his wins at the times which they took place. The fact is that he has 2 TKOs, 1 submission, and a decision in his last four fights, all against top 10 opponents (two in the top 5 at the time):

• Cerrone was ranked 4th
• Pettis was ranked 8th
• Lee was ranked 7th
• RDA was ranked 3rd

 

[member 3289]

OP you're an incredible curmudgeon. @MMAHAWK should have you on to give an unpopular opinion segment a few times a year.

"That's not an unpopular opinion.

THAT'S AN UNPOPULAR OPINION."

 

[Sheepdog]

That is a bit of a moving target, don't you think? You have to judge his wins at the times which they took place. The fact is that he has 2 TKOs, 1 submission, and a decision in his last four fights, all against top 10 opponents (two in the top 5 at the time):

• Cerrone was ranked 4th
• Pettis was ranked 8th
• Lee was ranked 7th
• RDA was ranked 3rd

Nobody is saying he has never beaten a top 5 ranked guy, just that he hasn't beaten any of the current ones. And I am judging his wins by the time they took place - in better context than those rankings provide.

Look at that Cowboy ranking. He had just beaten Alex Hernandez and Raging Al in his return to lightweight after going 2-4 at WW. You can't accuse me of moving targets and then pretend that that ranking was actually warranted and a fair assessment of how Cowboy's career was trending despite a good win over Al.

Can't argue with the RDA ranking. Problem is, RDA was the 5th last champion in that division and hasn't fought in it in years. Can't dine out on that forever.

 

[TheAwkwardTitan]

The problem with taking arbitrary W/L stats here is that you're underselling these fighters for their current records, and not basing it off of what they were doing at the time. That's not how fight sports work. You cant just take RDA's current 1 for 1 status at welterweight in order to undersell his LW run (he's still a beast btw). The same can be said for many of those fighters, and I will explain to you why.

- Kevin Lee was 9-2 in his entire UFC run prior to the Ferg fight, and he was on a 4-5 fight win streak. Not the stiffest of competition for Lee, but he was truly in his element prior to 2017, and it showed.
- Cowboy was on a win streak at LW, and had some good wins among his losses at welterweight. He was experiencing a sort of career resurgence before Tony kicked off Cowboys current losing record.
- RDA who had an insane title run and captured gold directly before Alvarez took his title? How is Tony's win over him not impressive? Because RDA gets outsized by the top WW's you're going to shit on him as a fighter? He's a top 5 welterweight with wins over former champions at the weight class. Are you huffing glue?


Those are the three main wins I take issue with you underselling. Of course that's not to say wins over guys like Barboza/Pettis aren't impressive. Records don't tell the whole story at a weightclass as stacked as lightweight. The stiffness of competition is a huge part in why guys don't always shine, yet they're still incredibly talented fighters. LW just isn't a weight class where guys go on huge win streaks. T-Ferg happens to be one of like 3 guys recently who's been able to carve a path through the LW ranks. So what are you talking about? I used to think people said stupid shit about team sports because they had home team bias, yet the worst shiitakes I see are about fighting.