VID The Trouble with Rousey IS NOT Tarverdyan...

Welcome to our Community
Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to Sign Up today.
Sign up

KataKing

Active Member
Sep 1, 2016
254
144
FOLLOWING THE WALLOPING BY NUNES, EDMOND TARVERDYAN IS GETTING CRUCIFIED AGAIN!

Poor Edmond just gets it, and gets it, then MMA Forums, commentators, etc., just pour it on more. The title of my Thread indicates that Edmond, from a martial arts perspective... not fan-seat, forum-clicking perspective, he is not the root of the problems with Ronda's striking wipe-outs... the UFC championship now well beyond her grasp.

I get these inane comments about karate traditional from time to time. The difference between me and the haters, here of Edmond T., is I have produced manual-like posting of how the martial art of karate traditionally works. The fact that traditional karate is just too challenging for MMA generally... well that's the way the Rousey cookie crumbled for one....o_O

Still, who wants to take my word for it? Scarcely few.... My board name alone, "Kata King," disqualifies me from the MMA colloquial mindset. So I've borrowed Firas Zahabi in to start the thread. Everyone loves Firas, well I don't. What I like about Firas is that not only is he technical... he's analytical (like me). I don't buy his MMA training theorems, many of which he proposes in the context of the Nunes > Rousey Post-fight review. But hey, he has an outstanding MMA business training competitors while I'm stuck here nursing my keyboard.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPFrkhHGL4s

Firas states that Edmond is part of the issue with Ronda's fall from grace... but not the driver... or certainly not the MAIN driver. Firas & I share the same sentiment there. What to do to fix it... well watch his video for his insights, recommendations....

I used Firas post-fight commentary to kick off my thread, with my own karate-ramblings. I also want to reference some of the YT highlights showing how Ronda Rousey's striking execution is the pits against Nunes. Then, move on about why & what to do about it.

Cheers on the New Year....
 

KataKing

Active Member
Sep 1, 2016
254
144
I KNOW I'M NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR MMA (SOB!)

{NOT REALLY} THAT'S WHY I READILY BRING OTHER MMA NAMEs WE (YOU) ALL LOVE. HERE'S A CALL BAS RUTTEN MADE ABOUT THE ISSUE OF RONDA'S STRIKING, & TARVERDYAN. I TEND TO PRETTY MUCH AGREE. THE COMPLETE STORY THOUGH, IS NOT TOLD BY BAS'S VIDEO... AS HOLM POINTED OUT & NUNES CONFIRMED SO DRAMATICALLY QUICKER THAT HOLM.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvBe_PG5enM

BAS AIN'T BREAD CRUMMY. SO THERE YA GO MMA AUDIENCE. HE ALSO MADE THE WRONG UFC 207 CALL ON THE WIN. SO DID I. BY MMA MATH, THEN, THAT MAKES ME EQUAL TO BAS.

Additional evidence from those very successful in the Professional MMA arena... that Edmond ain't the seat of the problem.

Ya know in analyzing the success of MMA competitors, any martial art competitor, there's always the issue of the fighter himself (here, herself). Then of course there's the trainer. And other stuff too. Like the style. I liked the fact that the striking style was mentioned in these videos. Yes, the style is a factor, that's what makes MMA, well MMA and so interesting instead of just watching point karate fighters be-bop with reverse punch, reverse punch....

We have, then, from the professional opinions of two great MMA successes, the working hypothesis of that the fighter is the issue. Time for a beer, proverbially speaking:cheers:.

Will be back with some karate sheet....

EDIT, CRUMB ALERT: Bas mentions a hot button of mine karate-wise. We karateka traditionalists get it for punching air. Well, MMA, boxing, etc. stink from the reliance of hitting focus mitts & foam pads. When the latter is part or a professional boxing program... then ok by me. This whole practice though of demoing physical talent at hitting cooperatively staged, almost choreographed padded striking target....NO, It's a phony crutch that's brainless, develops the brainless-ness which then we saw in Rousey @ UFC 207, at least that's the risk and Ronda is ill severely with this disease.

Bottom line: Pads work for BAS, Pads don't work for Rousey. I said it long before it was popularized by MMA forums. The difference is the fighter. So all that excellent pad-work which so impressed Bas and Wonderboy's UFC 205 fans, ended up a ZERO (in the case of Wonderboy vs. Woodley) and a thoroughly humilating Beth Correia-like loss for Ronda against Amanda.... chew on that....
 
Last edited:

KataKing

Active Member
Sep 1, 2016
254
144
BREAD CRUMB ALERT:

Bas mentions a hot button of mine karate-wise. We karateka traditionalists get it for punching air. Well, MMA, boxing, etc. stink from the reliance of hitting focus mitts & foam pads. When the latter is part or a professional boxing program... then ok by me. This whole practice though of demoing physical talent at hitting cooperatively staged, almost choreographed padded striking target....NO, It's a phony crutch that's brainless, develops the brainless-ness which then we saw in Rousey @ UFC 207, at least that's the risk and Ronda is ill severely with this disease.

Bottom line: Pads work for BAS, Pads don't work for Rousey. I said it long before it was popularized by MMA forums. The difference is the fighter. So all that excellent pad-work which so impressed Bas and Wonderboy's UFC 205 fans, ended up a ZERO (in the case of Wonderboy vs. Woodley) and a thoroughly humilating Beth Correia-like loss for Ronda against Amanda.... chew on that....
Ya MMA Hardcore want bread crumbs, here's 20 that karate-address what is wrong with Rousey... as a lead-in of course.. Contrast against Zahabi-san (OP) and enjoy your snack:

1. Karate-do begins with courtesy and ends with rei.

2. There is no first strike in karate.

3. Karate is an aid to justice.

4. First know yourself, then know others.

5. Spirit first, technique second.

6. Always be ready to release your mind.

7. Accidents arise from negligence.

8. Do not think that karate training is only in the dojo.

9. It will take your entire life to learn karate, there is no limit.

10. Put your everyday living into karate and you will find "Myo" (subtle secrets).

11. Karate is like boiling water, if you do not heat it constantly, it will cool.

12. Do not think that you have to win, think rather that you do not have to lose.

13. Victory depends on your ability to distinguish vulnerable points from invulnerable ones.

14. The outcome of battle depends on how you handle weakness and strength.

15. Think of your opponents hands and feet as swords.

16. When you leave home, think that you have numerous opponents waiting for you.

17. Beginners must master low stance and posture, natural body positions are for the advanced.

18. Practicing kata exactly is one thing, engaging in a real fight is another.

19. Do not forget to correctly apply strength and weakness of power, stretching and contraction of the body, and slowness and speed of techniques.

20. Always think and devise ways to live the precepts of karate-do every day.

WOW, that's mouthful of karate-philosophy / gibberish. Competes head on with Edmond's, "...HEAD MOVEMENT, HEAD MOVEMENT, X20;!" I'd say.
'-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll interject here and say this and will say it again. The job Ronda Rousey did promoting herself, the UFC, and specifically WMMA has never been topped, IMHO, likely never will be:D.
'-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now IMO, a quick hit at the one's Ronda Rousey violates(d).

1., 2., 3?, 4 {big-time}, 5 {big-time}, 6?, 7?, 8, 9. {big-time}, 10. {ultra, big-time}, 11. {yes & no}, 12. {fatal, big-time}, 14., 15, 17., 18 {in principle, big-time}, 20.

The ones Ronda got.

13., 16., 19. Maybe 3. Maybe 6, 7. A qualified 11.

Truth be told, I only looked into these Shotokan karate guiding precepts once I started following MMA. My style of karate doesn't have these specific guiding principles, but another equally touchy-feel, overly vague set or sets.

So what's the first cut-upshot of all this blabber y I've been rightly accused of? I don't see any mention of the sensei here. No Sensei Tarverdyan Edmond in mention-able sight. I see only the practitioner. Sorry Firas:flushed:, I'm bad for business.
 

La Paix

Fuck this place
First 100
Jan 14, 2015
38,273
64,597
Ya MMA Hardcore want bread crumbs, here's 20 that karate-address what is wrong with Rousey... as a lead-in of course.. Contrast against Zahabi-san (OP) and enjoy your snack:

1. Karate-do begins with courtesy and ends with rei.

2. There is no first strike in karate.

3. Karate is an aid to justice.

4. First know yourself, then know others.

5. Spirit first, technique second.

6. Always be ready to release your mind.

7. Accidents arise from negligence.

8. Do not think that karate training is only in the dojo.

9. It will take your entire life to learn karate, there is no limit.

10. Put your everyday living into karate and you will find "Myo" (subtle secrets).

11. Karate is like boiling water, if you do not heat it constantly, it will cool.

12. Do not think that you have to win, think rather that you do not have to lose.

13. Victory depends on your ability to distinguish vulnerable points from invulnerable ones.

14. The outcome of battle depends on how you handle weakness and strength.

15. Think of your opponents hands and feet as swords.

16. When you leave home, think that you have numerous opponents waiting for you.

17. Beginners must master low stance and posture, natural body positions are for the advanced.

18. Practicing kata exactly is one thing, engaging in a real fight is another.

19. Do not forget to correctly apply strength and weakness of power, stretching and contraction of the body, and slowness and speed of techniques.

20. Always think and devise ways to live the precepts of karate-do every day.

WOW, that's mouthful of karate-philosophy / gibberish. Competes head on with Edmond's, "...HEAD MOVEMENT, HEAD MOVEMENT, X20;!" I'd say.
'-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll interject here and say this and will say it again. The job Ronda Rousey did promoting herself, the UFC, and specifically WMMA has never been topped, IMHO, likely never will be:D.
'-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now IMO, a quick hit at the one's Ronda Rousey violates(d).

1., 2., 3?, 4 {big-time}, 5 {big-time}, 6?, 7?, 8, 9. {big-time}, 10. {ultra, big-time}, 11. {yes & no}, 12. {fatal, big-time}, 14., 15, 17., 18 {in principle, big-time}, 20.

The ones Ronda got.

13., 16., 19. Maybe 3. Maybe 6, 7. A qualified 11.

Truth be told, I only looked into these Shotokan karate guiding precepts once I started following MMA. My style of karate doesn't have these specific guiding principles, but another equally touchy-feel, overly vague set or sets.

So what's the first cut-upshot of all this blabber y I've been rightly accused of? I don't see any mention of the sensei here. No Sensei Tarverdyan Edmond in mention-able sight. I see only the practitioner. Sorry Firas:flushed:, I'm bad for business.
#3 needs to be TMMACs official slogan, would look great on a t-shirt.
 

KataKing

Active Member
Sep 1, 2016
254
144
AND CONTINUING ON... a troll antidote.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5OjIUlh6nc

Very bite size:hamburger:, IMHO.

EDIT: Yeah, there's some out there going on for 1, 1 1/2 hours or more, SAYING EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THEY SAID LAST YEAR (who remembers?). And I got slim-ed for forwarding 20 karate principles by Shotokan karate's founder...
 

KataKing

Active Member
Sep 1, 2016
254
144

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/BO72hDjjN6J/


I dunno bro, this looks like a pretty big problem.

This guy is like MMA borat.
Ghost Bro @Ghost Bro Yeah, but you & 100,000 others have this covered, for the most part I might add.... And I was told karate didn't work by those same 100, 000.

The one in Octagon (Kumite floor) is YOU. NOT ED-MUNSTER. And not FIRAS, either. That's where I'm jumping off. There's no law confining Honda to Glendale prison for WMMA. P.S. And how did Greg Jackson's Gaido-jutsu work against Meisha Tate re Holm? Holm admitted she blew it! There's a pro attitude.
 

KataKing

Active Member
Sep 1, 2016
254
144
LET'S PICK JUST 1OF THE 20 & have a little fun....

Let's say, No. 2. As opposed to, "...you can come to my gym and I'll train you if you have a 'good attitude.' Let's go a little deeper than, "...make your bed if you want my attention."

No.2. THERE IS NO FIRST STRIKE IN KARATE.

Now there's various translations of Funakoshi's Shotokan Karate laundry list. And many, numerous interpretations by karate clowns like me, karate blogs, karate books, and so on. And again, I'm not promoting the UFC, or a $3 million payday so let's stipulate credit to Ronda Rousey right now (I said I would be saying this again.). I'm developing martial art skill base.

What's one significance of a "no 1st strike," policy? How about we don't get over-aggressive? We temper our martial tactics so we don't rely on mere physical aggression to the detriment, the rest, the sum total of the martial principles underlying, behind our fighting style? Kinda make sense, a tasty bread crumb, eh?

Tactically, physical aggression is going to work beautifully against the weak, the inept, the defenseless. Does this picture portray Holly Holm? Does this portray Amanda, "The Lioness" Nunes?

I gotta go shortly... but sorry to be a karate-dork with all this philosophy-thought stuff. I mean the karate masters planted some guideposts for you to work on YOURSELF. ATT did great by Nunes, but it was Nunes who bettered Rousey on martial principles. PERIOD.
 

Ghost Bro

Wololo ~Leave no turn unstoned
Nov 13, 2015
8,511
10,828
Ghost Bro @Ghost Bro Yeah, but you & 100,000 others have this covered, for the most part I might add.... And I was told karate didn't work by those same 100, 000.

The one in Octagon (Kumite floor) is YOU. NOT ED-MUNSTER. And not FIRAS, either. That's where I'm jumping off. There's no law confining Honda to Glendale prison for WMMA. P.S. And how did Greg Jackson's Gaido-jutsu work against Meisha Tate re Holm? Holm admitted she blew it! There's a pro attitude.
I agree, I was mostly joking. It is all on Ronda and its honestly kinda tiring the babying she gets for this, everyone saying she was rocked early etc.

Just out of curiosity, from everyone on the ufc roster who are your top 5?
 

Wild

Zi Nazi
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
85,004
123,330
I could listen to Firas all day long. Such an intelligent, calculated, humble guy.
 

KataKing

Active Member
Sep 1, 2016
254
144
I agree, I was mostly joking. It is all on Ronda and its honestly kinda tiring the babying she gets for this, everyone saying she was rocked early etc.
Yeah, see my 20 precepts... they mostly all apply to how that happened.
\
IMO, Edmund can be called a joke. But then again, he's not the zero that forums portray by keyboard. I think the joke is on us who haven't scored big in MMA, whether we trained Tarverdyan style or not. Karate-do begins with courtesy and ends with rei. No. 1. This thread is about Rousey and Shotokan karate concepts as a martial perspective....
Just out of curiosity, from everyone on the ufc roster who are your top 5?
On the top five, now you're over my head.

Let me say I really like what I saw in Woodley against Wonderboy,,,, and the results of Duke Roufus & Co. by MMA standards. I'm partial to Wonderboy of course... but I won't / don't coddle him.
 

KataKing

Active Member
Sep 1, 2016
254
144
I could listen to Firas all day long. Such an intelligent, calculated, humble guy.
Hey's he's the current guru. And with great success. I cheated and used his Breakdown to jump off the thread... I encouraged all to watch, review. He melds well with the MMA masses....

I'm karate. And unknown & un-liked. But respected locally.
 

KataKing

Active Member
Sep 1, 2016
254
144
That post makes no sense as I'm a beard. I just live on his face.

I was simply pointing out that Firas hasn't actually seen very much success as an MMA coach. The optics are misleading.
\
He's nothing to me by karate. By my imperfect knowledge of MMA... he is successful and a good coach. Why not consider Firas as a resource for MMA? I mean Edmund has been tarred & feathered, run out of town on a rail. Firas is available and says so. Look him up MMAr's, I say....

OH, and on grappling which is my weak area, his grappling breakdowns particularly the Holm anti-grappling against Rousey, how can an MMA competitor not value that?

P.S. This foregoing thinking is within the 20 precepts of Shotokan karate.
 

KWingJitsu

ยาเม็ดสีแดงหรือสีฟ้ายา?
Nov 15, 2015
10,311
12,758
Hey's he's the current guru. And with great success. I cheated and used his Breakdown to jump off the thread... I encouraged all to watch, review. He melds well with the MMA masses....

I'm karate. And unknown & un-liked. But respected locally.
I have to give you props for keeping up the karate troll angle going.
I have come to learn to appreciate it. lol. I mean OSS!!
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
he is successful and a good coach. Why not consider Firas as a resource for MMA?
His pupils actually haven't seen a lot of success under him. Not to say he knows nothing, or isn't deserving as having an opinion, but he's far from the best thing going in MMA.
 

Papi Chingon

Domesticated Hombre
Oct 19, 2015
25,475
32,243
Edmond is not to directly blame for anything. "You are responsible for everything bad that happens to you," I have heard in the past. This doesn't mean if you are hit by a stray bullet, or struck by a car, or some other random act out of your control, that you are rsponsible. However, if your girlfriend cheats on you, if a friend steals from you, if you are duped by a scammer etc...you are completely responsible. Some of you may ask, why? Simple answer: you made the choice to have that person be part of your life, and it was your poor judgement, not others, that allowed whatever happened to you to happen.
Long story short, rhonda is fighting, not edmond, so even though he may be a fraud, the blame is on her (and travis, and the 4 horsewomen, and ellenberger, and...whoever else joins up with the guy).
 

KataKing

Active Member
Sep 1, 2016
254
144
His pupils actually haven't seen a lot of success under him. Not to say he knows nothing, or isn't deserving as having an opinion, but he's far from the best thing going in MMA.
\
BeardOfKnowledge @JohnyHendricksBeard

I really don't know the ins & outs of the MMA coaches. But personally, Firas is one I do listen to. Like I said, he gives sound technical breakdowns. He has a philosophy and is analytical. As to fighter rankings, success ratios, I don't compile those stats as many a forum user does. I concede that angle to MMA observers.

What I try to do is label decent stuff, decent stuff. If it's garbage, I label it garbage. And with the caveat I'm traditional karate.

On the coaches in MMA in general, all are trying to promote themselves. I find I can't condemn Tarverdyan the way I see him pilloried day-in-and-day-out in social media. Guy's got faults.... and easy target for social media.

I do believe some of the coaching feedback he's given Rousey is "yes man." Maybe that's what Ronda requires in a coaching relationship. Again, the theme of this thread is, "...its' the fighter @ the end of the day."

To end on Zahabi, he's not my man. But he's successfully built an MMA school operation and has good content, a reasoned perspective. He's worth following for MMA, IMO.