General Trump orders Boeing planes to be grounded

Discussion in 'The Off-topic Lounge' started by Hauler, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Hauler

    Hauler Unknown Member

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    Boeing 737 MAX planes have been grounded. "Those planes are grounded effective immediately," Trump told reporters at the White House. "The safety of the American people, of all people, is our paramount concern."

    157 people were killed after an Ethiopian Airlines plane crashed on Sunday. Last October, the same model of plane crashed over the Java Sea, killing 189 people.

    Canada, India, China and all of Europe had already grounded the planes until the flight recorders can be analyzed. In all, 50 countries have grounded or banned the planes from their airspace.

    After Trump's announcement, airlines throughout America were in scramble mode to find substitute planes to handle flights that were already booked. American Airlines alone has 24 of the Boeing MAX series planes in use.

    According to Boeing's website, the 737 MAX is the fastest-selling airplane in Boeing history with about 5,000 orders from 100 different customers worldwide

    President Donald Trump issues order to ground Boeing 737 Max 8 after crashes

    Boeing: 737 MAX
     
  2. Hauler

    Hauler Unknown Member

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    The 737 MAX is the 4th generation of the Boeing 737.

    They have been active in test flights since 2016, and gained FAA certification on March 8, 2017. There are 5 variants: MAX 7, MAX 8, MAX 200, MAX 9 and MAX 10.

    The first public flight of the aircraft was by Malindo Air on May 6, 2017.

    Primary users:
    Southwest Airlines
    American Airlines
    Air Canada
    WestJet

    Unit costs:
    MAX 7 $99.7 million
    MAX 8 $121.6 million
    MAX 200 $124.8 million
    MAX 9 $128.9 million
    MAX 10 $134.9 million

    Boeing 737 MAX - Wikipedia
     
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  3. Willthiswork

    Willthiswork I'd rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.

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    Sounds like it's a training issue that's causing the problem. They changed some of the controls and the overrides but they may not have communicated that clearly to pilots on how to do it.
     
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  4. Hauler

    Hauler Unknown Member

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    I read that they planned for an autopilot software update after the October 2018 crash.

    The new planes were built with larger, fuel efficient engines that were mounted in a different area of the plane compared to previous generations. The new mounting position changed the planes center of gravity, potentially causing the planes nose to pull up and stall the engine during flight under autopilot.

    Another automated system - MCAS (Manuevering Characteristics Augmentation System) is meant to automatically correct the upward pull by pointing the nose downward.

    It's believed that the October crash was caused by the MCAS system erroneously kicking on from a faulty sensor, putting the plane into a nose dive.

    Boeing states that pilots have the ability to override the MCAS if necessary.
     
  5. Hauler

    Hauler Unknown Member

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    People were in the air when Trump grounded the planes. It's gotta be a weird feeling hearing that all 737 MAX planes have been grounded for safety reasons, and you have a safety manual for a 737 MAX manual right in front of you while you are 30,000 feet in the air.
     
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  6. Never_Rolled

    Never_Rolled Dad motherfucker of the planet

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    This sounds even worse. I read an article from an aviation professor who looked over the data and also the complaints from pilots on this plane. Pilots can submit anonymous complaints into a database. She looked at everything and said there isn't a pattern. She also said when the plane is on auto-pilot the MCAS is turned off. One pilot said some procedures aren't in the flight manual and the ones that are have been badly written. He was furious to say the least.
     
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  7. Hauler

    Hauler Unknown Member

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    Boeing stock
    NYSE: BA

    In October before the 1st crash they were at $392.30
    It eventually "bottomed out" at $294.16 at the end of 2018.

    It then shot up to a high of $446.01 in late Feb 2019.
    Currently trading at $376.50

    If it dips below $300, I'm in.

    2.2% Yield
     
    #7 Hauler, Mar 14, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  8. conor mcgregor nut hugger

    conor mcgregor nut hugger King beyond the Wall

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    Terrible timing. Iirc 2018 was the first time in the past 5 or 6 years that Boeing had beaten Airbus in total orders placed.
     
  9. Judobill

    Judobill First 100
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    The plane’s awesome. The problem is with the pilots and training involved in the crashes. The Max is like the 4th generation of glass cockpit and Flight Management Systems. The airlines involved are moving from old steam gauge instruments airplanes into super modern instruments. They just aren’t prepared. I’m bullish on Boeing stock.
     
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  10. Schlong2

    Schlong2 Prince Phillip is a sloppy bitch
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    You think a pilot accidentally clicked a button on the touch screen to make the plane pitch down?
     
  11. Judobill

    Judobill First 100
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    I think he didn’t know what to do. That’s the problem.
     
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  12. Schlong2

    Schlong2 Prince Phillip is a sloppy bitch
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    Surely he still has conventional throttle and stick controls? I figured you were talking about new fancy touch screen instruments
     
  13. Judobill

    Judobill First 100
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    You’re correct. The first thing you’re supposed to do is click off the autopilot and just fly the plane. It sounds like they didn’t.
     
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  14. Schlong2

    Schlong2 Prince Phillip is a sloppy bitch
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    Would that typically be a menu button on the touch screen or would there be a physical switch they can disengage? I'd hope there is a physical thing they can flip in case the screens took a shit
     
  15. Never_Rolled

    Never_Rolled Dad motherfucker of the planet

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    I read one of the pilots not sure which crash wasn't even simulator trained on this plane. Once all the data is in we will there was a systemic failure and not just one thing.
     
  16. RussfromNH

    RussfromNH Get off my lawn!

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    I work in medical manufacturing and can't fathom how any issue, minor or major can escape testing/qualifying aircraft before it is released for use
     
  17. Never_Rolled

    Never_Rolled Dad motherfucker of the planet

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    It's also going to be a training issue.
     
  18. RussfromNH

    RussfromNH Get off my lawn!

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    Understandable
    Still the problem (s)should have been identified waaaaayyyyy before training
     
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  19. Schlong2

    Schlong2 Prince Phillip is a sloppy bitch
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    Every component on everything has a failure rate. Something this new obviously is expected to work perfect. From a test perspective the tests before that flight will have been done by ground personnel. No engines running. No passengers. On a flat level surface. Now factor in the vibration from the engine, the attitude of the aircraft , and outside fatigues causing the aircraft to shake. A wire that wasn't connected correctly can easily come loose.

    You could check it 100 times on the ground no problem. Same can be said for all the avionics equipment. Who knows if something rattled loose in one of the modules.

    This is why they have multiple sign off and QA checks during assembly and periodic inspections.
     
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  20. Never_Rolled

    Never_Rolled Dad motherfucker of the planet

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    As I said this is going to systemic. Pilots complained about manuals leaving procedures out, airlines letting pilots fly without sim time. We still don't know about component failure. The good thing is in the end it will all come out making everything safer. Unfortunately people had to die to make that happen.
     
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  21. Judobill

    Judobill First 100
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    [​IMG]
    My thumb is on the autopilot quick disconnect button. It also disengages all trim functions. If the plane isn’t doing what it’s supposed to be doing, this it what I press.
     
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  22. Never_Rolled

    Never_Rolled Dad motherfucker of the planet

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    Dat thumbnail doe.
     
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  23. Never_Rolled

    Never_Rolled Dad motherfucker of the planet

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    468 papa mike squawking 1200
     
  24. Schlong2

    Schlong2 Prince Phillip is a sloppy bitch
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    Which is what I figured. And what I also figured would be pretty standard across all platforms. A quick disconnect to manual control in the event of an emergency. And what I assume would be on that new Boeing. Surely a pilot of any type would be primed for this action during initial climb out?

    Would he not have tried to take control immediately? Or have Boeing made it too complicated that it's no longer a quick button flick?
     
  25. Judobill

    Judobill First 100
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    It’s ribbed, for her pleasure.
     
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