TUF: Undefeated season premiere averages just 200,000 viewers

Welcome to our Community
Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to Sign Up today.
Sign up
Nov 21, 2015
9,140
12,443
Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $ @Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $

WWE net income last 3 years
32,640m
33,841m
24,144m

They made $32.6m off of $800m gross in 2017
That means they make about $4-5 for every $100 they bring in as profit

UFC in 2017, made about 9x that %

If WWE is trading at $3b, imagine UFC in 2019

That proves a few things
1. Fighters can certainly be paid a lot more without hurting bottom line
2. UFC is incredibly sound financially
3. They would kill by going public, because stock market investors cares less about content & look at pure profit

Wish I could get in on that initial IPO
 

FrankieNYC

"My balls was hot!"
Aug 13, 2017
3,959
6,760
Wish I could get in on that initial IPO
Funny thing is WWE did not do well initially on the market
They started doing well when the last TV deal was up
They went up over 2x because WWE said they expected a $300m+ year deal.
They settled for half that & fell back down
When UFC sold for $4b, WWE stock went up & up & up
McMahons (mostly steph) caught a lot of investor crap when she sold high.

I know several analyst that think Vince mentioning the XFL was purely a publicity stunt to make headlines to drive up TV & stock interest.
Vince has no teams, no TV contracts & no set date to start a league
but in every bit of press, they mentioned WWE expecting a big TV deal as well as record gross for 2017.
Vince adding that the XFL would not be run with WWE's money made investors happy & they received a shitload of free publicity

6 weeks after Vince announced the XFL.
Charlie Ebersol announced a new football league with a CBS TV deal - New Pro Football League Sets 2019 Debut With CBS Sports Pact

Who is Charlie? The son of one of Vince's best friends & his old XFL partner Dick Ebersol.

Vince is a worker to the end lol
 
Nov 21, 2015
9,140
12,443
Funny thing is WWE did not do well initially on the market
They started doing well when the last TV deal was up
They went up over 2x because WWE said they expected a $300m+ year deal.
They settled for half that & fell back down
When UFC sold for $4b, WWE stock went up & up & up
McMahons (mostly steph) caught a lot of investor crap when she sold high.

I know several analyst that think Vince mentioning the XFL was purely a publicity stunt to make headlines to drive up TV & stock interest.
Vince has no teams, no TV contracts & no set date to start a league
but in every bit of press, they mentioned WWE expecting a big TV deal as well as record gross for 2017.
Vince adding that the XFL would not be run with WWE's money made investors happy & they received a shitload of free publicity

6 weeks after Vince announced the XFL.
Charlie Ebersol announced a new football league with a CBS TV deal - New Pro Football League Sets 2019 Debut With CBS Sports Pact

Who is Charlie? The son of one of Vince's best friends & his old XFL partner Dick Ebersol.

Vince is a worker to the end lol
Yeah I think Vince is easily the best promoter of this generation and can be argued
to be the greatest promoter ever in my opinion
 

FrankieNYC

"My balls was hot!"
Aug 13, 2017
3,959
6,760
Yeah I think Vince is easily the best promoter of this generation and can be argued
to be the greatest promoter ever in my opinion
In some ways I agree
But as big as WWE is, they can be so much bigger
He is at his worst at creative in the last decade
a 70+ year old stubborn mule has no idea what the pulse is anymore
He was brilliant in 1980's with Hulk & wrestlemania no doubt, but it had to take WWF almost going bankrupt to change to the Attitude Era.

When he signed Austin, his idea was for Steve never to talk as The Ringmaster with Dibiase as his mouthpiece


When he signed Rock, his idea was to never have him have an attitude & be the smiley, overly nice & friendly boy next door.


The two biggest stars since Cena (who he had as a silent machine type wrestler) made it with very little Vince backing (CM Punk & Daniel Bryan).

But there is not a person alive that could do what he does once a year with Wrestlemania
He takes a stale product & brings in tens of thousands in tourist to the host city for a week long celenration with production that blows away any even the rest of the year.

That is why i call him a worker.
He makes WWE look a lot bigger than it is
They tout grossing $800m a year, but meanwhile the company only makes under 40m in profit
 
Nov 21, 2015
9,140
12,443
In some ways I agree
But as big as WWE is, they can be so much bigger
He is at his worst at creative in the last decade
a 70+ year old stubborn mule has no idea what the pulse is anymore
He was brilliant in 1980's with Hulk & wrestlemania no doubt, but it had to take WWF almost going bankrupt to change to the Attitude Era.
When he signed Austin, his idea was for Steve never to talk
When he signed Rock, his idea was to never have him have an attitude & be the smiley, overly nice & friendly boy next door.


The two biggest stars since Cena (who he had as a silent machine type wrestler) made it with very little Vince backing (CM Punk & Daniel Bryan).

But there is not a person alive that could do what he does once a year with Wrestlemania
He takes a stale product & brings in tens of thousands in tourist to the host city for a week long celenration with production that blows away any even the rest of the year.

That is why i call him a worker.
He makes WWE look a lot bigger than it is
They tout grossing $800m a year, but meanwhile the company only makes under 40m in profit
Wow I didn't know that. He almost steered the Rock wrong huh. Rock seems
ike such a natural at what he does now. I like him in movies too.

I saw John Cena's movie... Geez that was bad
 

FrankieNYC

"My balls was hot!"
Aug 13, 2017
3,959
6,760
Holy shit! LOL
They started chanting "DIE ROCKY DIE" after a month.
He would be boo'd out of arenas as a good guy
Rocky begged to be a heel & cut a promo on the fans & The Rock was born
but Vince didn't see it

Here is when he joined the uber-"black" heel team Nation Of Domination & The Rock was born

 
Nov 21, 2015
9,140
12,443
They started chanting "DIE ROCKY DIE" after a month.
He would be boo'd out of arenas as a good guy
Rocky begged to be a heel & cut a promo on the fans & The Rock was born
but Vince didn't see it

Here is when he joined the uber-"black" heel team Nation Of Domination & The Rock was born

Haha Nice!
 

silentsinger

Momofuku
Jun 23, 2015
21,038
14,484
I completely forget that The Rock was in WWE. I've enjoyed him as an actor and personality so much it completely slips my mind.
They started chanting "DIE ROCKY DIE" after a month.
He would be boo'd out of arenas as a good guy
Rocky begged to be a heel & cut a promo on the fans & The Rock was born
but Vince didn't see it

Here is when he joined the uber-"black" heel team Nation Of Domination & The Rock was born

I completely forget that The Rock was in WWE. I've enjoyed him as an actor and personality so much it completely slips my mind.
 

Chromium

Posting Machine
Oct 10, 2016
825
1,326
Well .... a few things your post made me think of
1. Most people that I know wanted someone to buy UFC from the Fertitta's & treat UFC like a real business. Those got that wish..

2. WME are not in it for the love & dream of owning a piece of MMA. It is purely the fact they were close enough to UFC finances (since they were UFC's agents for deals) that they saw how much more money could be made with tighter fiscal management (that Lorenzo's)

3. The surprise to me is how they are not using the Hollywood connections to promote ... at all. They sold uber-minority shares to guys like Kimmel & Conan. I totally expected non-stop tweets from these celebs that would promote each card plus appearances galore on the shows. Also, an agency like WME are known for pushing guest on other shows (like Fallon, stern, etc.). If a show wants a top celeb, they also must take a lesser known celeb. I seen nothing that shows WME pushing UFC fighters like that & it shocks me.
Maybe with Conor and Ronda MIA and Jon Jones repeatedly torching his own career, maybe they have Buyer's Remorse and just don't give a fuck at this point. It's almost like the worst possible outcome from an ownership perspective.
 

Chromium

Posting Machine
Oct 10, 2016
825
1,326
Thanks

I think the chances of UFC going public after the next TV deal is huge.
WWE as a public traded company is worth 3x more than they should be
WWE is trading at a worth of about $3b now
They made11% profit UFC seemed to make in 2017, but selling at 60% of UFC's last evaluation of $5b.
If UFC takes the last deal offered from Fox/ESPN, they will be worth over $6b in 2019 (barring a catastrophe) if they go public then, they can put a large % (under 50%) up for trading & get back close to the original investment & still own a nice chunk of UFC & Ari/Patrick can take huge dividends for running UFC.

A way people usually begin to look at a company's value is taking yearly profit & multiplying by 20.
In 2015 UFC made $150m profit with expectations of $200m by in 2016.
That is why WME & 4 others bid in the $3.5-4.0m range.

They can make insane money putting 40% up in a public offering if that TV deal goes through.
You'd think with a public offering they could pay off lenders and then invest back in the company, but WME just seems like pure shit at looking a the long-term. I'm gonna quote former NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, when speaking on Roger Goodell:

"If they see you making decisions only in economic terms, they start to understand that and question what you're all about," he said. "There's a huge intangible value in peace. There's a huge intangible value in allies."

MMA is better off with a union. The UFC is better off with a union. The UFC is better off if all if their athletes are paid a living wage, and if their better athletes are all paid a lucrative one. This ensures a steady flow of quality talent, something they're critically short on in some of their divisions, particularly Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight. This makes it so they don't lose good talent to other promotions, or never get it in the first place. Furthermore a Collective Bargaining Agreement, as negotiated with a union, may allow them to get an anti-trust exemption. Then they could have a monopsony without fear from the FTC and truly have anyone they wanted.

The only way this happens, particularly if the UFC goes public, is if the fighters force the issue themselves. Seems like the window is narrowing on that though. Sad.
 

RedDragonUK

Posting Machine
Apr 17, 2015
986
1,179
I still watch the show and enjoy it. The advertising or lack of it is to blame. I didn’t even know it was on
 

SongExotic2

ATM 3 CHAMPION OF THE WORLD. #FREECAIN
First 100
Jan 16, 2015
39,772
53,672
I completely forget that The Rock was in WWE. I've enjoyed him as an actor and personality so much it completely slips my mind.

I completely forget that The Rock was in WWE. I've enjoyed him as an actor and personality so much it completely slips my mind.
Where do you think he got a name like " the rock"???

Ffs
 

FrankieNYC

"My balls was hot!"
Aug 13, 2017
3,959
6,760
Maybe with Conor and Ronda MIA and Jon Jones repeatedly torching his own career, maybe they have Buyer's Remorse and just don't give a fuck at this point. It's almost like the worst possible outcome from an ownership perspective.
They are still making a shit load, so I don't know about remorse. but they have certainly bought a company in transition.
What we don't know is how involved they are in all these headaches (Conor, Jones, USADA, etc).
They might be "You fix it Dana" types.
Dana is the guy most of the insanity falls on, I would guess Ari/Patrick just tell him what they want & Dana has to deal with it.
I wouldn't doubt that Dana's backtracking on Conor had to do with WME wanting him to fight to make money
 

Robbie Hart

All Biden Voters Are Mindless Sheep
Feb 13, 2015
49,706
50,710
I’m watching now and I like dc but why does he think sucking on weed whacker/strimmer wire is ok........I thought he had a gray hair hanging off him
 

nuraknu

savage
Jul 20, 2016
6,247
10,770
Ok here is my question. For some unrelated reason, my dvr didn't record tuf the first showing. So I set it to record a 5am re-run another day. The 5am re-run was pre-empted for the first 36 minutes by a NASCAR rerun, which is completely ridiculous. So I have to ask, did that happen during the first airing of the premiere? Wouldn't surprise me the way they regularly pull that garbage. So many good shows fail due to that kind of nonsense on network television, of course it's going to happen if you do the same thing on cable.
 

FrankieNYC

"My balls was hot!"
Aug 13, 2017
3,959
6,760
Ok here is my question. For some unrelated reason, my dvr didn't record tuf the first showing. So I set it to record a 5am re-run another day. The 5am re-run was pre-empted for the first 36 minutes by a NASCAR rerun, which is completely ridiculous. So I have to ask, did that happen during the first airing of the premiere? Wouldn't surprise me the way they regularly pull that garbage. So many good shows fail due to that kind of nonsense on network television, of course it's going to happen if you do the same thing on cable.
The DVR thing might be because TUF added undefeated to the title
If you want TUF, pm me your email ASAP
I'm going back in hospital Tuesday but can email it overnight
 

nuraknu

savage
Jul 20, 2016
6,247
10,770
The DVR thing might be because TUF added undefeated to the title
If you want TUF, pm me your email ASAP
I'm going back in hospital Tuesday but can email it overnight
Oh that's ok, you may be right - I finally got it off an FS2 rerun. Thanks!