USADA says Jones tested clean the night he fought Gus

Discussion in 'Cageside - MMA Discussion' started by MovinOn, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Wait I thought the picograms, grains of salt in a swimming pool could last up to 7 years? Now he's miraculously clean? Wow what incredible drug testing we have. We should all just blindly believe this like juicy jones and the corrupt NSAC/USADA/UFC want us to because clearly we as an audience are stupid enough to believe anything they tell us

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Shang Tsong2

    Shang Tsong2 Prince Phillip is a GoD
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    I knew he was innocent
     
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  3. Andrewsimar Palhardass

    Andrewsimar Palhardass My balls was hot

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    That'll convince 'em!
     
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  4. SCADA

    SCADA Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  5. MovinOn

    MovinOn Canis lupus familiaris

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    And this is how the Jon Jones drug testing lottery is played, apparently...


     
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  6. Outlaw Shit

    Outlaw Shit No Comment
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    LOL
    HE DID not Test Positive, He did not TEST positive
    Egg will never live that one down
     
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  7. SCADA

    SCADA Well-Known Member

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    All the experts in the subject have the same opinion.

    - "They all must be on the take"

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Filthy

    Filthy Too dumb to win, too tough to Ignore

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    who are 'all the experts'?
     
  9. SCADA

    SCADA Well-Known Member

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    According to this thread, it's the users here.
     
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  10. Andrewsimar Palhardass

    Andrewsimar Palhardass My balls was hot

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    Well, yeah.
     
  11. Dim

    Dim Active Member

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    not so much fishy, as there are two things going on here. There is "usada" and then there is "the ufc"

    This whole Jones thing, from USADA's pov. They get notified of the positive test and they have to decide if they are going to move forward with an ADRV (Anti doping rule violation). To make that stick they are going to have to prove something, that is a new ingestion. They cannot do that. So they are faced with a choice, charge the athlete, go to arbitration and have Jones team ask them "could this be a remnant of the ingestion from 2017?" and the simple fact is, USADA dont know, so they lose the case. USADA need to have t's crossed and i's dotted when charging an athlete with a violation, in this case they couldnt.

    So thats one part, USADA cant make a strong case, so rightfully they err on the side of the athlete. I have no problem with that, thats the right thing to do in these cases. (and dont forget the case doesnt end there, they will keep on testing and monitoring Jones)

    So from that pov, USADA have done everything correctly.





    Then we come to the UFC. Rather than presenting the above as the facts, they instead choose to to come out with a load of bullshit.

    They tell us that only one of Jones samples was positive, they even tell Gus "all his samples were clean except this last one" and then four days later admit they werent.

    They take quotes such as Larry Bowers "I dont see anything that represents a fresh ingestion SINCE AUGUST 2018" and completely misrepresent it as Bowers saying "this is conclusively from 2017"

    They take quotes from Daniel Eichner "There is no evidence this is a fresh ingestion" and completely misrepresent it as Eicher saying "this is conclusively from 2017"

    Misrepresenting the views of THREE people (two of them either current or former USADA employees) as ALL THE TOP EXPERTS IN THE WORLD

    They take a study on Clomiphine (A total different substance) and claim that it is conclusive evidence of pulsing (Which anyone who had read the study can tell you it isnt because they classed anything lower than 50pg/ml in the study as not present / below limit of detection)

    They fail to inform a licensing commission, that Jones has had multiple positives despite it being the original commission that he had the positive test under because in Jeff Novitzky's words "it didnt seem important"



    So, the UFC were faced with a choice, tell us the honest truth from USADA's point of view and treat us like intelligent adults, or, try and totally bullshit us with a load of untruths, misrepresentations, and exagerations.

    They chose the latter.






    When Dana and Jeff originally said "All his samples except the last one were clean" he was lying.. the truth was multiple samples were positive,

    the stupid thing is, the truth, actually made some sense, scientifically at least.

    the lie, was scientifically unlikely given the circumstances they claimed, and bordering on the preposterous
     
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  12. Dim

    Dim Active Member

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    Luke's got this really badly wrong.

    He said the original study wasnt Rodchenkov' it was. And he said only 1 person was it tested on and thats not true either. Rodchenkov was using hundreds of samples from Russian athletes that he personally had doped.
     
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  13. Outlaw Shit

    Outlaw Shit No Comment
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    agree
    but moving an event on 6 days notice because of a single fighter "pulsing" is ridiculous and shady

    Jones needs to stop Pulsing or sit the F down...and they need to show cases of other Pulsers...not lie to our faces

    the misrepresentation of the three "experts" statements is insulting to our intelligence
     
  14. Tiiimmmaaayyy

    Tiiimmmaaayyy First 100 ish

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    I can’t believe anything they say from here on out. They have lost all credibility. Not sure why they even bothered to test him on the night of the fight. It wouldn’t have mattered if he pissed off the charts hot, they were gonna have to find a way to let the test go because they went through so much shit to make the fight happen.
     
    #64 Tiiimmmaaayyy, Jan 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
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  15. Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $

    Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $ Posting Machine

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    THIS


    I don't particularly care what USADA or Mini Egg has to say at this point.

    They have proven beyond a doubt to blatant liars at best and incompetent at worst
     
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  16. Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $

    Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $ Posting Machine

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    3 people all of which have a relationship with USADA or were employed by them
    and all of which they completely mis characterized what they actually said to make it
    seem like they all agreed Jon is perfectly innocent
     
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  17. Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $

    Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $ Posting Machine

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    Its pretty simple for me. They lied. Hence they are hiding something
    Hence Jon did something wrong. You don't hide shit when your guy is innocent
     
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  18. conor mcgregor nut hugger

    conor mcgregor nut hugger Jones is the GOAT, get over it dorks

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    So many mouth breathers on social media and MMA forums were quick to jump the gun and scream SEE!!! USADA IS CORRUPT!!!!!!!!

    Thank you for clarifying things, and please accept my apology for saying you were off on this topic.

    By correctly arguing that Jones was indeed innocent here, you have restored my faith in you.
     
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  19. Outlaw Shit

    Outlaw Shit No Comment
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    suck harder...you will get a bigger reward
     
  20. lordofthepies

    lordofthepies Well-Known Member

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    You are being far too generous to USADA here. The statement they released also contained blatant misrepresentations.

    Also, just to pull you up on some of the language you used, you accurately point out that USADA faced problems with a potential Jones' defence regarding 'pulsing' but to say 'they are going to have to prove it's a new ingestion' is a terrible way of stating it, as that's not at all how strict liability works, which I'm sure you know.
     
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  21. lordofthepies

    lordofthepies Well-Known Member

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    Is this just a (obviously very plausible) theory or has this been stated categorically before?

    And if Rodchenkov had performed an extensive study that properly identified the detection window, is this not a counter-argument to 17-month pulsing rather than a supporting argument?
     
  22. Dim

    Dim Active Member

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    but, had it gone to hearing, the first thing Jones team would have asked are

    1) What excretion studies have been performed on turinabol long term metabolites

    answer: none

    2) can you conclusively rule out that this is a remnant from his 2017 positive

    answer: no

    At that point the arbitration panel find in favor of the athlete.



    Strict Liability isnt actually as rigid as guys like Luke Thomas point out. Yes, you are responsible for everything you put in your body, but, there are degrees of fault, how much responsibility you bear, and that can result in anything from a warning, to a full punishment, Strict liability isnt nearly such a thing as those opposed to anti doping will have you believe.
     
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  23. Dim

    Dim Active Member

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    Rodchenkov was doping athletes for 5 years with turinabol. Hes by far the best person to be commenting on anything.

    The trouble is, Rodchenkov only looked at window of detection from samples he analysed. So for instance, he knew when the athlete took the turinabol (because he gave it to them) so he could get a good gauge, but did he test (or even have access to) samples where the tbol was administered 1 year previously? probably not, because they athletes who samples he used were using tbol regularly

    After he published his paper, the test was further ratified by other wada labs, mainly Marcel Saugy's lab in Lausanne, but, they were analysing on samples where they dont know when the turinabol was administered, so they had no real way of determing the long term excretion parameters
     
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  24. RaginCajun

    RaginCajun Once in Forever Poster

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  25. lordofthepies

    lordofthepies Well-Known Member

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    So a theory. And you didn't answer my question.
     
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