General Was 9/11 the start of the decline and fall of America?

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John Lee Pettimore

Further south than you
May 18, 2021
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Or nah?

From the outside, it seems like America isn't anything close to as respected or as admired as it was in the '90s and before.

Seems like the country is far more divided and generally worse off, too. Political polarisation, rise of conspiracy shit, wealth divide, opioid epidemic, mortgage crisis, etc etc etc.

Do you think it seems like 9/11 was the start of the decline and fall?

Or not so much?

🇦🇺
 

Qat

Qute
Nov 3, 2015
13,774
17,928
That's far too easy of an answer for a very complex phenomenon.

As long as the dollar is the world currency, I wouldn't bank on the collapse yet, there is time to adapt. If it's not anymore tho and Americans cling to their perceived role..

 

conormcnuthuggernuthugger

Formerly 'Fingers'
Nov 14, 2019
12,469
14,596
Yeah pretty much.

The American at heart is a very scared person. Terrified of their own shadow.

You just have to watch how easily manipulated they are with a hint of fear. Look at how they lost their shit when some people of colour protested.

They yearn for a strong man to tell them what to do. Trump isn't a strong man but he actsike one. And that's good enough for half the population.

In short. Yes. 911 broke America. Bin Laden defeated the United States.
 

John Lee Pettimore

Further south than you
May 18, 2021
4,460
4,324
That's far too easy of an answer for a very complex phenomenon.

As long as the dollar is the world currency, I wouldn't bank on the collapse yet, there is time to adapt. If it's not anymore tho and Americans cling to their perceived role..

Sure, nothing in geopolitics is completely cut and dried. But there are still moments that stand as tipping points, regardless of whether it's more psychological than practical. I mean, you can say that WW1 marked the end of the British Empire and you'd not be wrong, although it would still be a massive simplification.

Still, who would say America is on the rise over these last 20 years, or that it hasn't lost a lot of ground relative to competing powers over that time?

🇳🇿
 

Qat

Qute
Nov 3, 2015
13,774
17,928
Still, who would say America is on the rise over these last 20 years, or that it hasn't lost a lot of ground relative to competing powers over that time?
Surely others made up ground, the towers being flown into didn't really help other economies tho.
Maybe indirectly it accelerated things.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
22,932
26,438
Yeah pretty much.

The American at heart is a very scared person. Terrified of their own shadow.

You just have to watch how easily manipulated they are with a hint of fear. Look at how they lost their shit when some people of colour protested.

They yearn for a strong man to tell them what to do. Trump isn't a strong man but he actsike one. And that's good enough for half the population.

In short. Yes. 911 broke America. Bin Laden defeated the United States.
lol
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
22,932
26,438
That's far too easy of an answer for a very complex phenomenon.

As long as the dollar is the world currency, I wouldn't bank on the collapse yet, there is time to adapt. If it's not anymore tho and Americans cling to their perceived role..

a currency war is coming, probably in our lifetime...if the US loses that war it will mark the start of the fall.
 

Pak protector

It's alllll fine, everything's fine.
May 16, 2021
4,259
3,663
a currency war is coming, probably in our lifetime...if the US loses that war it will mark the start of the fall.
That, or it ends with the whole world becoming part of the US.
Chiner could be called the Asian US.
Canada, US North.
Australia, US Beneath.

We could change "Earth" to US.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
22,932
26,438
That, or it ends with the whole world becoming part of the US.
Chiner could be called the Asian US.
Canada, US North.
Australia, US Beneath.

We could change "Earth" to US.
One-World Government gonna One-World


EDIT - Australia/New Zealand would be "US Taint"/"US Sweaty Asshole"
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
22,932
26,438
another big date was Citizens United vs the FEC on January 21, 2010
Solid. Post.

the advancement of corporate citizenry has been the downfall of America. 9-11, real estate collapse, COVID...just disasters that corporate citizens use to advance their interests by controlling the narrative.
 

John Lee Pettimore

Further south than you
May 18, 2021
4,460
4,324
Solid. Post.

the advancement of corporate citizenry has been the downfall of America. 9-11, real estate collapse, COVID...just disasters that corporate citizens use to advance their interests by controlling the narrative.
Citizens United was an absolute disaster for America. More corporatist bullshit that the right wing aggressively promoted and forced into law, and that the Dems passively allowed to happen.

🇦🇺
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
41,984
86,739
Still, who would say America is on the rise over these last 20 years,
That's an arbitrarily short period that begins following a decade of hyper power growth following the fall of the soviet Union.

There is likely not another time in the last 100 years in which there's been such a unipolar world.

And then following that you have a period of some of the fastest growth of developing countries due to globalization and the internet providing lower barriers.




or that it hasn't lost a lot of ground relative to competing powers over that time?
There's only china that could truly be talked about in that period. And they currently don't have shit on the now defunct Soviet Union As far as power threat and influence.

But outside of that, poor developing countries are doing nothing more than moving into the identical developmental trajectory as existing developed countries. That trajectory is consistently faster when you are going from $1 to $10 to $100 and not $1,000 to $10,000 to $100,000 in pp gdp.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
22,932
26,438
Citizens United was an absolute disaster for America. More corporatist bullshit that the right wing aggressively promoted and forced into law, and that the Dems passively allowed to happen.

🇦🇺
it's amusing that when both parties get together and do Evil, it's always the Republicans that pushed it and the Dems who 'let it happen'.
like the fucking Unions didn't jump up and down and jerk themselves off over Citizens United...


is it the DNC or the CCP that pays your per-post rate?
 

conormcnuthuggernuthugger

Formerly 'Fingers'
Nov 14, 2019
12,469
14,596
That, or it ends with the whole world becoming part of the US.
Chiner could be called the Asian US.
Canada, US North.
Australia, US Beneath.

We could change "Earth" to US.

You guys really do believe this. Force fed Hollywood bollocks from birth.

Made to swear allegiance to the flag everyday as a school child. Every fucking day. Before you are allowed to learn anything you must pledge allegiance to a flag. Just like North Korea.

And you guys really think you are the pinnacle. You're not even close. Nearly half your adults are racist dumb fucks. I don't think Americas standing in the world had ever been lower. There is serious conversation over here and pretty much everywhere whether we loosen our ties with you and become closer to China. At least you know they are tyrants and we can act accordingly.. God knows what America stands for anymore.
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
41,984
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Wealth disparity and the coming crisis of automation represent the largest challenges to the US in my opinion.

You can't maintain the defense spending, social security, or Medicare without tax revenue.

As income has moves further into the capital gains and will only accelerate doing so when those gains come from automation instead of personal income, You will see it continue to acceleration of the concentration of wealth development. This makes for a less competitive environment as far as smaller businesses competing. It makes it difficult to move into the next echelons of wealth and prosperity if there is only garbage jobs or automation ownership.

This is going to be the major problem for many many countries. But many other countries already do a better job exacting revenue from those at the top.

There won't be enough jobs. There isn't a current mechanism for a large portion of the population to participate in those gains. We don't currently have the social or political environment to do the obvious solve of taxing and social subsidies.
 

John Lee Pettimore

Further south than you
May 18, 2021
4,460
4,324
Seems like the conspiracies picked up after Y2K
Yeah conspiracy garbage is a HUGE and underrated problem in society. Tens of millions of people living in absolute fantasy world, with absolutely zero skill in critical thinking and zero ability to parse sources. 9/11 was, of course, the biggest conspiracy nut wet dream since JFK, and every single one of us knows at least one person who went full "George Bush planned it, it was an inside job!" in the aftermath.

🇳🇿
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
22,932
26,438
That's an arbitrarily short period that begins following a decade of hyper power growth following the fall of the soviet Union.

There is likely not another time in the last 100 years in which there's been such a unipolar world.

And then following that you have a period of some of the fastest growth of developing countries due to globalization and the internet providing lower barriers.






There's only china that could truly be talked about in that period. And they currently don't have shit on the now defunct Soviet Union As far as power threat and influence.

But outside of that, poor developing countries are doing nothing more than moving into the identical developmental trajectory as existing developed countries. That trajectory is consistently faster when you are going from $1 to $10 to $100 and not $1,000 to $10,000 to $100,000 in pp gdp.
it could be said that America has been in decline since Vietnam/Bretton Woods Accords, with only the collapse of the USSR in the 80s and the Tech Burst in the 90s being aberrations that kept appearances up.
 

John Lee Pettimore

Further south than you
May 18, 2021
4,460
4,324
And you guys really think you are the pinnacle. You're not even close. Nearly half your adults are racist dumb fucks. I don't think Americas standing in the world had ever been lower.
It's really a combination of funny and sad when an American on the internet tries to talk shit about everyone on the planet wanting to move there. They really honestly believe that it's still the 1950s or the 1990s. It isn't.

🇦🇺
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
22,932
26,438
Military spending too. And selling arms to the dodgiest countries obviously .
selling arms to dodgy dictators is a core tenet of the New Colonialism business model, but it was a core tenet of the old British Colonialism. :)

i think that the military spending really took off after BWA, like "what are we gonna do with all this pretend money? I know, let's buy guns". That's pretty red white n blue.