Karl Gotch’s Number One Student: The Yoshiaki Fujiwara Interview
Part One of Three: The Roots of Mixed Martial Arts Taking Hold in Japan
By William Colosimo | wcolosimo@yahoo.com
Yoshiaki Fujiwara is a legend in the world of Japanese professional wrestling who helped pave the way for a mixed martial arts (MMA) revolution there in Japan. He wrestled in the New Japan Pro-Wrestling (NJPW) group starting in 1972- working closely with Antonio Inoki- and was trained directly by the “God of Pro Wrestling,” Karl Gotch (Charles Istaz)- the man who revolutionized professional wrestling in Japan, returning it to far more of a legitimate grappling style. Mr. Fujiwara was part of that first generation wrestling in the Gotch inspired style, and is considered Gotch’s best student.
While in NJPW he took on students and future MMA legends by the names of Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki. Mr. Fujiwara could be considered their main trainer, and they developed their submission wrestling style from his original foundation. After several years under his tutelage across a few pro wrestling organizations, Funaki along with Suzuki would leave Mr. Fujiwara’s side to form Pancrase, a large Japanese MMA organization predating the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC)- creating a number of MMA legends in the process.
Due to the language barrier I was assisted by translator Mark Ruina (mmatranslations@gmail.com), who relayed my questions and joined in the conversation, as well.
William Colosimo: I heard you originally had a background in Muay Thai before discovering submission wrestling. Is this true?
Yoshiaki Fujiwara: No, it was after I started wrestling. When I was about 40, for about two years. I injured my knee, I couldn’t bend it 90 degrees, so I couldn’t wrestle. So because of that, I went to a Muay Thai gym, for about two years.
Mark Ruina: Was that in Tokyo?
Fujiwara: Yeah, well, in Saitama, a place called Misato. It was Yoshimitsu Tamashiro’s gym. He was my teacher.
Ruina: How long after starting wrestling did you go into Muay Thai?
Fujiwara: After I had joined NJPW. I joined that when I was 23.
Colosimo: You began wrestling for Antonio Inoki’s NJPW company in 1972, I believe.
Fujiwara: Right. 1972, November 5.
Colosimo: Why did you decide to go in that direction?
Fujiwara: That’s because when I was a kid, at school, we would go to the movie theater, and there- while going to the movies, at one of them, in between the films was a news movie in which Sensei Rikidōzan (Mitsuhiro Momota) appeared. I thought “What the hell is this!?” I was so moved. And since then I was just in love with pro wrestling. And when I was 10 or so, I flipped through a weight training book in a book shop, and I told my teacher I wanted to do weight training. I mean, at the time, there were no gyms. It was the middle of nowhere.
Ruina: Where are you originally from?
Fujiwara: Iwate Prefecture.
Colosimo: How much hands on training did you have from Mr. Inoki?
Fujiwara: We were always training together. From the start, I loved wrestling, submission wrestling. So, after entering the organization, about six months after that, we started training together and that went about 20 years. 10-something years, 13 or 14 years, we were partners. He allowed me to do that.
Ruina: That whole time you were also sparring together?
Fujiwara: Right.
Colosimo: Do you have any knowledge of what happened behind the scenes of the Antonio Inoki vs Muhammad Ali match from June of 1976? If so- was that originally planned as a pro wrestling match, or a fight without a predetermined finish? What did it eventually turn out to be?
Fujiwara: Behind the scenes? So, what should I say? Inoki was about 32. And, so, what should I say? Ali came with about 50 people. They were really good at the mental, like the skill of shaking your opponent up before the match. They would give out misinformation. “He’s not feeling good today.” “Today, he’s really feeling good.”
Ruina: In the U.S., the rumor floating was that it was going to be a fake pro wrestling match.
Fujiwara: (Laughter) I think Ali’s side thought so, that was Ali’s side. But they paid out 3… 2 billion yen. Unbelievable. Inoki thought it would be legit.
Ruina: Did you see the match?
Fujiwara: Yeah, I joined the corner. In the corner, I don’t really know if this is good or bad to say, but someone had a gun. Someone, they said there were two people from Ali’s side. There was a rumor. But one guy did come. So, that time, it went to a decision, but I felt like Inoki could win it at any moment. But if he had made a mistake, it would have been all over. You understand, right? I guess I thought it was good.
Colosimo: For how long did you receive hands on instruction from Karl Gotch?
Fujiwara: Mr. Gotch? After joining, about a month later, he came to NJPW as a coach, here and there. And in Fujiwara-Gumi, twice, about three times, he would come for three months.
Colosimo: Would he make regular visits to Japan over the years?
Fujiwara: Yes, we would call him to come.
Ruina: On a three month visa?
Fujiwara: Right.
Colosimo: What would you call the submission wrestling style Mr. Gotch taught? “Gotch Style Catch Wrestling”?
Fujiwara: What would it be called? We call it “shoot” or “catch as can” (sic), etcetera.
Ruina: There was no special name for it?
Fujiwara: No.
Colosimo: It is said that Mr. Gotch considered you his top student. What were the qualities that he saw in you above the other wrestlers?
Fujiwara: That’s something you’d have to ask him. But I think I was the one doing the most study.
Ruina: You think it was that?
Fujiwara: I mean, I would learn, and I was a little strange, I would always ask “Why? Why is it like that?” Whenever I was told something, I was like “Is that really so?” Right, I would doubt it. I was constantly thinking “Why, why, why.” That became my own style of study. Always like that. Training every day. So, now, my knee is busted, my elbow is busted (laughter). I’m falling to pieces.
Colosimo: Can you tell us about what kind of relationship you had with Mr. Gotch?
Fujiwara: During training, it was like student and teacher, but after training, we were like friends, we would hang out. We really liked joking. I couldn’t really get across the English barrier, but Mr. Gotch I understand learned English from the navy. He was in the navy, right? That’s what I heard. He was always swearing. His grandchild, no, his daughter, her son, he said to him that he shouldn’t be like him. "Don’t be like the old man." He became a sailor, in the navy.
Ruina: I’ve heard Gotch’s training was really rough, that he liked to see pain.
Fujiwara: It was rough, but he did it together with us. The one memory that stands out for me is Gotch at 67, when I was 42, we all did 2,000 squats together. Gotch’s knee was already bad, so when he squatted you could hear pops and ratcheting sounds, and he would be yelling “F**k… squat…” Sorry for swearing, but yeah, “f**k” while he was squatting, and in 58 minutes and some seconds he did 2,000 of them.
Colosimo: What would you consider your strongest submission holds?
Fujiwara: All of them. For me, my thinking is that the more of them you can do, the more easily you’ll be able to get one on your opponent. And more than that, on both sides- left and right.
Ruina: That’s really important. Even today, there are many good fighters who only attack from their right, strong side.
Fujiwara: Exactly, and if you only attack to the right, you cut your attacks in half! The chances for a submission are halved. So, I’m skillful.
Colosimo: How about the armbar?
Fujiwara: The armbar, it’s not so interesting. You don’t get too many chances to pull it off.
Ruina: So which do you like?
Fujiwara: I like the Achilles hold and, well, the armbar, the foreign fighters have big strong arms, they’re strong, so it’s tough to get it on them. White people don’t use their knees very much. So, they’re stiff. So, it’s easy to tap them, with the Achilles. The armbar is more difficult (Translator’s Note: Even in Japanese homes with western furniture, much of the time is spent on the floor, especially at parties where it creates more room- so Japanese are often on their knees or moving around from a seated position).
Colosimo: You are known for the “Fujiwara armbar.”
Fujiwara: As for the Fujiwara armbar- about 35 years back, I saw a judo competition on TV, and a Korean player used an illegal technique. I then developed it over many years of sparring.
Colosimo: How did Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki originally come to train under you? What did you see in them very early on?
Fujiwara: It wasn’t so much as them coming under me; it wasn’t that I was looking for people to teach. For my own training, I was training forever with Akira Maeda, Mr. (Satoru) Sayama, etcetera. And the next to come in were Funaki and Suzuki. I didn’t call them to come to me, it wasn’t like that at all. People gathered around me to train together, to think and train.
Ruina: Were those two the first to come?
Fujiwara: They came way later.
Ruina: So, there were a lot of people before them?
Fujiwara: No, not a lot, but the U.W.F. guys- most of them- we were in a close formation. We all trained together, and there was the U.W.F. (Editor’s Note: There were two U.W.F. organizations in the 1980’s. The first one, the Universal Wrestling Federation, debuted in 1984 and disbanded in 1985. Many of the core members eventually came back for a second version, the “Newborn” U.W.F.- using the same initials, although never operating under the full name of Universal Wrestling Federation. This version debuted in 1988 and disbanded in 1990. Mr. Fujiwara was in both versions, while Funaki and Suzuki were only members of the second version)
Ruina: How about for Fujiwara-Gumi? (Editor’s Note: Professional Wrestling Fujiwara-Gumi, sometimes referred to as Fujiwara-Gumi or the Fujiwara Family)
Fujiwara: Yeah, we split, and then Funaki and Suzuki came to Fujiwara-Gumi, and then the college amateur wrestler “Yoshiki” Takahashi, you know him?
Ruina: Yeah, you mean Kazuo Takahashi.
Fujiwara: Right (laughter). Kazuo is his real name. That was his real name, and Yoshiki was his fighting name. You really know your stuff.
Colosimo: Were you the main teacher of Funaki and Suzuki?
Fujiwara: Yeah, well, I don’t know what those two think, but it would probably have to be Gotch and me. And I was also that for Takahashi, his “oyaji” (Translator’s Note: Oyaji means old man, boss, father. In the vertical hierarchical society, it basically means Takahashi was under his tutelage, that Mr. Fujiwara had taken him under his wing).
Colosimo: What role did Akira Maeda and Nobuhiko Takada play in their development?
Fujiwara: There wasn’t much. They only worked together with the U.W.F. for a very brief period of time. And then it split up, and from then on it was Fujiwara-Gumi.
Colosimo: Why in your opinion did the second, newborn U.W.F. close down?
Fujiwara: Yeah, why? So, well, everyone thought they were number one, so the teamwork was really bad. It seemed like it would have to fail, there was a destiny to break up, which is also what made it interesting.
Part One of Three: The Roots of Mixed Martial Arts Taking Hold in Japan
By William Colosimo | wcolosimo@yahoo.com
Yoshiaki Fujiwara is a legend in the world of Japanese professional wrestling who helped pave the way for a mixed martial arts (MMA) revolution there in Japan. He wrestled in the New Japan Pro-Wrestling (NJPW) group starting in 1972- working closely with Antonio Inoki- and was trained directly by the “God of Pro Wrestling,” Karl Gotch (Charles Istaz)- the man who revolutionized professional wrestling in Japan, returning it to far more of a legitimate grappling style. Mr. Fujiwara was part of that first generation wrestling in the Gotch inspired style, and is considered Gotch’s best student.
While in NJPW he took on students and future MMA legends by the names of Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki. Mr. Fujiwara could be considered their main trainer, and they developed their submission wrestling style from his original foundation. After several years under his tutelage across a few pro wrestling organizations, Funaki along with Suzuki would leave Mr. Fujiwara’s side to form Pancrase, a large Japanese MMA organization predating the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC)- creating a number of MMA legends in the process.
Due to the language barrier I was assisted by translator Mark Ruina (mmatranslations@gmail.com), who relayed my questions and joined in the conversation, as well.
William Colosimo: I heard you originally had a background in Muay Thai before discovering submission wrestling. Is this true?
Yoshiaki Fujiwara: No, it was after I started wrestling. When I was about 40, for about two years. I injured my knee, I couldn’t bend it 90 degrees, so I couldn’t wrestle. So because of that, I went to a Muay Thai gym, for about two years.
Mark Ruina: Was that in Tokyo?
Fujiwara: Yeah, well, in Saitama, a place called Misato. It was Yoshimitsu Tamashiro’s gym. He was my teacher.
Ruina: How long after starting wrestling did you go into Muay Thai?
Fujiwara: After I had joined NJPW. I joined that when I was 23.
Colosimo: You began wrestling for Antonio Inoki’s NJPW company in 1972, I believe.
Fujiwara: Right. 1972, November 5.
Colosimo: Why did you decide to go in that direction?
Fujiwara: That’s because when I was a kid, at school, we would go to the movie theater, and there- while going to the movies, at one of them, in between the films was a news movie in which Sensei Rikidōzan (Mitsuhiro Momota) appeared. I thought “What the hell is this!?” I was so moved. And since then I was just in love with pro wrestling. And when I was 10 or so, I flipped through a weight training book in a book shop, and I told my teacher I wanted to do weight training. I mean, at the time, there were no gyms. It was the middle of nowhere.
Ruina: Where are you originally from?
Fujiwara: Iwate Prefecture.
Colosimo: How much hands on training did you have from Mr. Inoki?
Fujiwara: We were always training together. From the start, I loved wrestling, submission wrestling. So, after entering the organization, about six months after that, we started training together and that went about 20 years. 10-something years, 13 or 14 years, we were partners. He allowed me to do that.
Ruina: That whole time you were also sparring together?
Fujiwara: Right.
Colosimo: Do you have any knowledge of what happened behind the scenes of the Antonio Inoki vs Muhammad Ali match from June of 1976? If so- was that originally planned as a pro wrestling match, or a fight without a predetermined finish? What did it eventually turn out to be?
Fujiwara: Behind the scenes? So, what should I say? Inoki was about 32. And, so, what should I say? Ali came with about 50 people. They were really good at the mental, like the skill of shaking your opponent up before the match. They would give out misinformation. “He’s not feeling good today.” “Today, he’s really feeling good.”
Ruina: In the U.S., the rumor floating was that it was going to be a fake pro wrestling match.
Fujiwara: (Laughter) I think Ali’s side thought so, that was Ali’s side. But they paid out 3… 2 billion yen. Unbelievable. Inoki thought it would be legit.
Ruina: Did you see the match?
Fujiwara: Yeah, I joined the corner. In the corner, I don’t really know if this is good or bad to say, but someone had a gun. Someone, they said there were two people from Ali’s side. There was a rumor. But one guy did come. So, that time, it went to a decision, but I felt like Inoki could win it at any moment. But if he had made a mistake, it would have been all over. You understand, right? I guess I thought it was good.
Colosimo: For how long did you receive hands on instruction from Karl Gotch?
Fujiwara: Mr. Gotch? After joining, about a month later, he came to NJPW as a coach, here and there. And in Fujiwara-Gumi, twice, about three times, he would come for three months.
Colosimo: Would he make regular visits to Japan over the years?
Fujiwara: Yes, we would call him to come.
Ruina: On a three month visa?
Fujiwara: Right.
Colosimo: What would you call the submission wrestling style Mr. Gotch taught? “Gotch Style Catch Wrestling”?
Fujiwara: What would it be called? We call it “shoot” or “catch as can” (sic), etcetera.
Ruina: There was no special name for it?
Fujiwara: No.
Colosimo: It is said that Mr. Gotch considered you his top student. What were the qualities that he saw in you above the other wrestlers?
Fujiwara: That’s something you’d have to ask him. But I think I was the one doing the most study.
Ruina: You think it was that?
Fujiwara: I mean, I would learn, and I was a little strange, I would always ask “Why? Why is it like that?” Whenever I was told something, I was like “Is that really so?” Right, I would doubt it. I was constantly thinking “Why, why, why.” That became my own style of study. Always like that. Training every day. So, now, my knee is busted, my elbow is busted (laughter). I’m falling to pieces.
Colosimo: Can you tell us about what kind of relationship you had with Mr. Gotch?
Fujiwara: During training, it was like student and teacher, but after training, we were like friends, we would hang out. We really liked joking. I couldn’t really get across the English barrier, but Mr. Gotch I understand learned English from the navy. He was in the navy, right? That’s what I heard. He was always swearing. His grandchild, no, his daughter, her son, he said to him that he shouldn’t be like him. "Don’t be like the old man." He became a sailor, in the navy.
Ruina: I’ve heard Gotch’s training was really rough, that he liked to see pain.
Fujiwara: It was rough, but he did it together with us. The one memory that stands out for me is Gotch at 67, when I was 42, we all did 2,000 squats together. Gotch’s knee was already bad, so when he squatted you could hear pops and ratcheting sounds, and he would be yelling “F**k… squat…” Sorry for swearing, but yeah, “f**k” while he was squatting, and in 58 minutes and some seconds he did 2,000 of them.
Colosimo: What would you consider your strongest submission holds?
Fujiwara: All of them. For me, my thinking is that the more of them you can do, the more easily you’ll be able to get one on your opponent. And more than that, on both sides- left and right.
Ruina: That’s really important. Even today, there are many good fighters who only attack from their right, strong side.
Fujiwara: Exactly, and if you only attack to the right, you cut your attacks in half! The chances for a submission are halved. So, I’m skillful.
Colosimo: How about the armbar?
Fujiwara: The armbar, it’s not so interesting. You don’t get too many chances to pull it off.
Ruina: So which do you like?
Fujiwara: I like the Achilles hold and, well, the armbar, the foreign fighters have big strong arms, they’re strong, so it’s tough to get it on them. White people don’t use their knees very much. So, they’re stiff. So, it’s easy to tap them, with the Achilles. The armbar is more difficult (Translator’s Note: Even in Japanese homes with western furniture, much of the time is spent on the floor, especially at parties where it creates more room- so Japanese are often on their knees or moving around from a seated position).
Colosimo: You are known for the “Fujiwara armbar.”
Fujiwara: As for the Fujiwara armbar- about 35 years back, I saw a judo competition on TV, and a Korean player used an illegal technique. I then developed it over many years of sparring.
Colosimo: How did Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki originally come to train under you? What did you see in them very early on?
Fujiwara: It wasn’t so much as them coming under me; it wasn’t that I was looking for people to teach. For my own training, I was training forever with Akira Maeda, Mr. (Satoru) Sayama, etcetera. And the next to come in were Funaki and Suzuki. I didn’t call them to come to me, it wasn’t like that at all. People gathered around me to train together, to think and train.
Ruina: Were those two the first to come?
Fujiwara: They came way later.
Ruina: So, there were a lot of people before them?
Fujiwara: No, not a lot, but the U.W.F. guys- most of them- we were in a close formation. We all trained together, and there was the U.W.F. (Editor’s Note: There were two U.W.F. organizations in the 1980’s. The first one, the Universal Wrestling Federation, debuted in 1984 and disbanded in 1985. Many of the core members eventually came back for a second version, the “Newborn” U.W.F.- using the same initials, although never operating under the full name of Universal Wrestling Federation. This version debuted in 1988 and disbanded in 1990. Mr. Fujiwara was in both versions, while Funaki and Suzuki were only members of the second version)
Ruina: How about for Fujiwara-Gumi? (Editor’s Note: Professional Wrestling Fujiwara-Gumi, sometimes referred to as Fujiwara-Gumi or the Fujiwara Family)
Fujiwara: Yeah, we split, and then Funaki and Suzuki came to Fujiwara-Gumi, and then the college amateur wrestler “Yoshiki” Takahashi, you know him?
Ruina: Yeah, you mean Kazuo Takahashi.
Fujiwara: Right (laughter). Kazuo is his real name. That was his real name, and Yoshiki was his fighting name. You really know your stuff.
Colosimo: Were you the main teacher of Funaki and Suzuki?
Fujiwara: Yeah, well, I don’t know what those two think, but it would probably have to be Gotch and me. And I was also that for Takahashi, his “oyaji” (Translator’s Note: Oyaji means old man, boss, father. In the vertical hierarchical society, it basically means Takahashi was under his tutelage, that Mr. Fujiwara had taken him under his wing).
Colosimo: What role did Akira Maeda and Nobuhiko Takada play in their development?
Fujiwara: There wasn’t much. They only worked together with the U.W.F. for a very brief period of time. And then it split up, and from then on it was Fujiwara-Gumi.
Colosimo: Why in your opinion did the second, newborn U.W.F. close down?
Fujiwara: Yeah, why? So, well, everyone thought they were number one, so the teamwork was really bad. It seemed like it would have to fail, there was a destiny to break up, which is also what made it interesting.
