Your opinion about PEDS (Poll)

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Do you like/agree with the increased PED testing?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 70.6%
  • No

    Votes: 10 29.4%

  • Total voters
    34

ShatsBassoon

Throwing bombs & banging moms
First 100
Jan 14, 2015
18,555
33,607
Or get a regular job that doesn't involve fighting in a cage
Dumbest thing i have read today and that says a lot.
How about if you do PEDs dont step in a cage. Or go to Japan where everything goes from roids to tentacle porn
 

teamquestnorth

Lindland never cheated
Jan 27, 2015
15,422
28,258
Dumbest thing i have read today and that says a lot.
How about if you do PEDs dont step in a cage. Or go to Japan where everything goes from roids to tentacle porn
If I had some sort of moral dilemma against PEDS, I wouldn't decide to be a cagefighter. Pretty simple lol.

Lots of other avenues for people with an average IQ or better
 

Zeph

TMMAC Addict
Jan 22, 2015
24,355
32,125
Things will only get worse before they get better, but tackling the problem now is the right thing to do.
 

ChaosOverkill

Conor is ushering in the Chomochiq fashion era.
First 100
Jan 16, 2015
6,230
4,845
If you're going to test them, every place, same policy scorched earth overboard or all you are doing is leaving crumbs for potential top 5ers or champs who do it to keep screwing with your product as you chase your tail while you give people an inch where they will take a mile.

I won't believe they are serious until they have every place on board or refuse to go somewhere that isn't. Slow and steady does not win this race.

Until they say "We refuse to go to places who don't adopt this policy", they are pussyfooting and questionable cancellations and holes in the net will continue to plague the sport.
 

ChaosOverkill

Conor is ushering in the Chomochiq fashion era.
First 100
Jan 16, 2015
6,230
4,845
By the time slow and steady change takes hold Zuffa may have long lost too much to keep going, and not to mention Bellators strange omission in a lot of this when they have been going to places which don't even piss test most of their events. It seems lately Coker's choice of venues have been changing that, I hope that is permanent.

I sincerely hope that if the UFC is actually going to commit to a serious policy then Bellator, the WSOF and trickle on down the rest will as well. It only serves to indicate their insistence on half measures if they are not and choose venues with some backward commission or lack thereof

When they convince or stop going to Texas and reserves and the like across the board I will believe this will be serious and all it takes is for these promotions to say no and draw lines they have all been unwilling to do in the name of draws from these places or some inherent need they maintain events there.

The fact the media never touched this ONCE is evidence enough for me they are still trying to have their cake and eat it too with this and I remain skeptical. After all this hand wringing and talk from Zuffa, to take events to a place that won't do ANY OOC testing, is trying to make people forget the issue through the few that follow NSAC's lead as examples for sacrifice and is evidence that I, as the broadcast consumer, not the athlete or member of the sport, should question whether they are competent enough to have a policy that does anything more than sabotage their own product.

People doing shit is better than unmarketable sport the incompetence destroyed to me.
 
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Sweets

All Around Dumbass
Feb 9, 2015
8,797
10,065
Thank god for this new testing maybe some of those mummies mentioned above will take their old asses off into the sunset and give me a card full of fresh young talented fighters. It's a pain in the ass watching these old ass men pretend they can still do it, they only get billing just because casuals know their names. If you cant train smart enough to not get hurt every camp fuck off, if you cant maintain the cardio without help fuck off, if you need help because you can't recover fuck off, if you need to get stronger because your skill level prevents achievement fuck off...
 

Wild

Zi Nazi
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
85,004
123,331
Thank god for this new testing maybe some of those mummies mentioned above will take their old asses off into the sunset and give me a card full of fresh young talented fighters. It's a pain in the ass watching these old ass men pretend they can still do it, they only get billing just because casuals know their names. If you cant train smart enough to not get hurt every camp fuck off, if you cant maintain the cardio without help fuck off, if you need help because you can't recover fuck off, if you need to get stronger because your skill level prevents achievement fuck off...
Damn dude...I look at it the complete opposite. These are guys that helped build the UFC and the sport. Have spent thousands of hours busting their asses in the gym, dieting, cutting weight, being away from family, etc. Spilled sweat and blood for our entertainment. I think they deserve our respect, and the ability to continue their dream as long as they believe it's possible. If not in the UFC, then wherever. But I sure as shit am not going to be one to just throw away the old for the new with such disregard. Guys like Hendo, Shogun, Cro Cop, Hunt, Werdum are legends. Hell, one is a champion right now. They deserve our respect. It's what we've built the culture of this forum around as well.
 

dacofty

Yea..Ok..Whatever
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
9,485
9,454
Damn dude...I look at it the complete opposite. These are guys that helped build the UFC and the sport. Have spent thousands of hours busting their asses in the gym, dieting, cutting weight, being away from family, etc. Spilled sweat and blood for our entertainment. I think they deserve our respect, and the ability to continue their dream as long as they believe it's possible. If not in the UFC, then wherever. But I sure as shit am not going to be one to just throw away the old for the new with such disregard. Guys like Hendo, Shogun, Cro Cop, Hunt, Werdum are legends. Hell, one is a champion right now. They deserve our respect. It's what we've built the culture of this forum around as well.
I agree with you.
 

dacofty

Yea..Ok..Whatever
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
9,485
9,454
Thank god for this new testing maybe some of those mummies mentioned above will take their old asses off into the sunset and give me a card full of fresh young talented fighters. It's a pain in the ass watching these old ass men pretend they can still do it, they only get billing just because casuals know their names. If you cant train smart enough to not get hurt every camp fuck off, if you cant maintain the cardio without help fuck off, if you need help because you can't recover fuck off, if you need to get stronger because your skill level prevents achievement fuck off...
I take it Mir threw a pretend punch and sent Duffie into an imaginary swimming pool.
 

Sweets

All Around Dumbass
Feb 9, 2015
8,797
10,065
Damn dude...I look at it the complete opposite. These are guys that helped build the UFC and the sport. Have spent thousands of hours busting their asses in the gym, dieting, cutting weight, being away from family, etc. Spilled sweat and blood for our entertainment. I think they deserve our respect, and the ability to continue their dream as long as they believe it's possible. If not in the UFC, then wherever. But I sure as shit am not going to be one to just throw away the old for the new with such disregard. Guys like Hendo, Shogun, Cro Cop, Hunt, Werdum are legends. Hell, one is a champion right now. They deserve our respect. It's what we've built the culture of this forum around as well.
As long as they think they can? Like Chuck? Ye his later fights were lovely to watch... What about the hard work being put in by the new breed most of whom cant get on to a main card because someone wants one more shot at glory. Hunt and Werdum are good in my book they are still capable of performing to a high level... I'm not disrespecting anyone I didn't mention names for a reason... Yes there are many legends and in a perfect world where I owned zuffa I would employ them as ambassadors of the sport, set them up with with gyms have a basic retirement plan for fucks sake, but it's not a perfect world is it promoters are mercenary animals who spit fighters out like melon seeds.
 

Zeph

TMMAC Addict
Jan 22, 2015
24,355
32,125
Thank god for this new testing maybe some of those mummies mentioned above will take their old asses off into the sunset and give me a card full of fresh young talented fighters. It's a pain in the ass watching these old ass men pretend they can still do it, they only get billing just because casuals know their names. If you cant train smart enough to not get hurt every camp fuck off, if you cant maintain the cardio without help fuck off, if you need help because you can't recover fuck off, if you need to get stronger because your skill level prevents achievement fuck off...
I wonder how long you've been watching Big Sweets? Is it perhaps you haven't formed attachments to some of the older guys because you weren't watching them when they were in their primes?
 

Wild

Zi Nazi
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
85,004
123,331
As long as they think they can? Like Chuck? Ye his later fights were lovely to watch... What about the hard work being put in by the new breed most of whom cant get on to a main card because someone wants one more shot at glory. Hunt and Werdum are good in my book they are still capable of performing to a high level... I'm not disrespecting anyone I didn't mention names for a reason... Yes there are many legends and in a perfect world where I owned zuffa I would employ them as ambassadors of the sport, set them up with with gyms have a basic retirement plan for fucks sake, but it's not a perfect world is it promoters are mercenary animals who spit fighters out like melon seeds.
Chuck was getting KO'd by shots coming from 6" away (Rich Franklin fight, for example). His retirement was necessary. The guys I mentioned are all still competitive, and all still have value to the organization. Hendo just put on an amazing performing, for instance. What you're talking about is more of a "get rid of the old guard, so the new guard can get theirs". I simply don't agree with that. There's plenty of events and plenty of time for the new guys to get seasoned and recognized. And there's plenty of events to allow the old guys to still perform, as long as they capable. For every fan that doesn't want to see "some old guy fight"...there's 100 that doesn't want to see a 3-0 up & comer that hasn't made a name for himself. Earn it..the old guys did.
 

Sweets

All Around Dumbass
Feb 9, 2015
8,797
10,065
I wonder how long you've been watching Big Sweets? Is it perhaps you haven't formed attachments to some of the older guys because you weren't watching them when they were in their primes?
Not live I've only been watching 3 or 4 years but I've watched most every big fight that ever happened and I'd say I'm obsessed with the sport.. I'm also a romantic and can easily get attached to guys in fights from pride etc, and I know my history... I also hate seeing people get knocked out easily by shit they woulda laughed at previously, or look like shadows of themselves it makes me sad because I know that they are the foundations the sport is built on. I also know a lot of them are fighting because there is nothing for them after and they need the money.

As I said above perfect world these guys get set up with gyms do promotional stuff get a fucking retirement plan at least, if those things were in place the number of guys wanting to go at 40 might be a lot less...
 

Sweets

All Around Dumbass
Feb 9, 2015
8,797
10,065
Chuck was getting KO'd by shots coming from 6" away (Rich Franklin fight, for example). His retirement was necessary. The guys I mentioned are all still competitive, and all still have value to the organization. Hendo just put on an amazing performing, for instance. What you're talking about is more of a "get rid of the old guard, so the new guard can get theirs". I simply don't agree with that. There's plenty of events and plenty of time for the new guys to get seasoned and recognized. And there's plenty of events to allow the old guys to still perform, as long as they capable. For every fan that doesn't want to see "some old guy fight"...there's 100 that doesn't want to see a 3-0 up & comer that hasn't made a name for himself. Earn it..the old guys did.
That's what I'm saying he is not the only one you mentioned whose retirement is necessary.... Hendo's style allows for the natural slowing down at his age, still he wasn't so spectacular V Mousasi was he? Does he drop from that shot ten years ago? 5? What if that 3 and 0 has a vastly superior skillset? Pantera for instance?
 

Zeph

TMMAC Addict
Jan 22, 2015
24,355
32,125
Not live I've only been watching 3 or 4 years but I've watched most every big fight that ever happened and I'd say I'm obsessed with the sport.. I'm also a romantic and can easily get attached to guys in fights from pride etc, and I know my history... I also hate seeing people get knocked out easily by shit they woulda laughed at previously, or look like shadows of themselves it makes me sad because I know that they are the foundations the sport is built on. I also know a lot of them are fighting because there is nothing for them after and they need the money.

As I said above perfect world these guys get set up with gyms do promotional stuff get a fucking retirement plan at least, if those things were in place the number of guys wanting to go at 40 might be a lot less...
I'm pretty similar to you, but started watching a couple years earlier(08). There are certain guys that older fans are more attached to than I am, Wanderlei Silva for instance, because going back and watching their fights doesn't have the same mystique and aura around them. Not to mention this is before you consider the evolution of the sport, and by today's standards Pride era Wanderlei is an aggressive brawler, which takes away from how impressive it was to be doing what he did at the time.

I enjoy Wanderlei fights still, but I'll never be as pumped for them as someone who watched him during Pride. However, there are going to be fans who start watching in 5-10 years time, and they might be uninterested in watching Conor Mcgregor fight, since by then he might have dropped a couple and maybe his chin isn't quite what it used to be, but we'll still be creaming ourselves in anticipation.
 

Sweets

All Around Dumbass
Feb 9, 2015
8,797
10,065
I'm pretty similar to you, but started watching a couple years earlier(08). There are certain guys that older fans are more attached to than I am, Wanderlei Silva for instance, because going back and watching their fights doesn't have the same mystique and aura around them. Not to mention this is before you consider the evolution of the sport, and by today's standards Pride era Wanderlei is an aggressive brawler, which takes away from how impressive it was to be doing what he did at the time.

I enjoy Wanderlei fights still, but I'll never be as pumped for them as someone who watched him during Pride. However, there are going to be fans who start watching in 5-10 years time, and they might be uninterested in watching Conor Mcgregor fight, since by then he might have dropped a couple and maybe his chin isn't quite what it used to be, but we'll still be creaming ourselves in anticipation.
To be honest I think Wand V Hunt or Cro Cop even on youtube are some of the greatest spectacles in the history of sport, I agree with you about the skill set though. Man I get more pumped watching some prelims whose names I don't know if they are bringing the technique and the war..
 

WoodenPupa

Member
Feb 14, 2015
2,920
3,565
I think a compromise is possible on this issue.

Here's how they could do it: have every fighter who wants to be on PED's receive consultation with a physician approved by the athletic commission, or a team of physicians (endocrinologists, etc) working full time for the UFC. These doctors draw up the usage protocols for each fighter who wants PED's.

The doctor tracks the fighter's test levels and other PED levels, staying below a predetermined threshold. The threshold would forbid a fighter testing out of the accepted range, and it would be a reasonable range, neither too conservative nor too high. That way you get real, definite performance benefits without allowing bodybuilder loads of PED's.

Of course, this is all impossible due to the roid stigma, but if we ever got past that, this would be the way to do it. One huge benefit would be that every fighter knows what substance he's getting---no black market gambling. Another is that this monitored usage would be accompanied by regular bloodwork and checkups, and therefore overusage/severe abuse would not occur.

Naturally, cheating would still be possible. But I bet a lot of fighters would NOT cheat under this scheme, since the point of it would be to supply real performance benefits.

There would be some problems, namely for those who responded adversely to the drugs. But those guys are already in that position, and they're already fighting against active users. And there's the issue of what substances to allow into the protocols. But that wouldn't be too hard. A choice of drugs for the various performance categories---some for recovery, some for fat loss, some for cardio, some for strength.

This plan would put everything out in the open. Cheaters would be subject to harsh penalties---the fools who wanted more PED's, if caught, would be thrown under the bus. We'd get the performance levels we all want from fighters without the stigma and risks of black market drugs which can be incorrectly concentrated or mislabeled altogether.
 

Wild

Zi Nazi
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
85,004
123,331
That's what I'm saying he is not the only one you mentioned whose retirement is necessary.... Hendo's style allows for the natural slowing down at his age, still he wasn't so spectacular V Mousasi was he? Does he drop from that shot ten years ago? 5? What if that 3 and 0 has a vastly superior skillset? Pantera for instance?
Hendo just smashed Boetsch though, and he's not getting KO'd like Chuck was. Maybe I'm crazy but there isn't one guy on the roster that I would categorize as "needs to retire for his long term health". I put Chuck in that category before the Franklin fight. BJ was another one, as much as it pained me to admit it. I think Struve should think about it as well, simply because of the issues he's experienced. But the older guard on the roster right now are still competitive for the most part, against who they're being matched up against. And it's not like there's 50 of these guys, fighting 4 times a year, and taking up spots for other more deserving. There's only about 8-10 of them and they're only fighting 2 times a year for the most part. And no one on the roster is more deserving than them...at least not in my eyes.
 
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Leigh

Engineer
Pro Fighter
Jan 26, 2015
10,925
21,293
I don't think steroids help much. They do for recovery but that's about it. Having big muscles is not beneficial unless you're a heavyweight. I wouldn't care if my opponent juiced as long as he made weight.

Morally, I don't see the difference between PEDs and legal supplements. You are taking something to get an edge. How is 30g of creatine "natural"? Or 400g of protein? That's something like 15lbs of beef! The only difference is PEDs are more effective.
 

Zeph

TMMAC Addict
Jan 22, 2015
24,355
32,125
Hendo just smashed Boetsch though, and he's not getting KO'd like Chuck was. Maybe I'm crazy but there isn't one guy on the roster that I would categorize as "needs to retire for his long term health". I put Chuck in that category before the Franklin fight. BJ was another one, as much as it pained me to admit it. I think Struve should think about it as well, simply because of the issues he's experienced. But the older guard on the roster right now are still competitive for the most part, against who they're being matched up against. And it's not like there's 50 of these guys, fighting 4 times a year, and taking up spots for other more deserving. There's only about 8-10 of them and they're only fighting 2 times a year for the most part. And no one on the roster is more deserving that them...at least not in my eyes.
Maynard needs to retire for his long term health.
 

WoodenPupa

Member
Feb 14, 2015
2,920
3,565
I don't think steroids help much. They do for recovery but that's about it. Having big muscles is not beneficial unless you're a heavyweight. I wouldn't care if my opponent juiced as long as he made weight.

Morally, I don't see the difference between PEDs and legal supplements. You are taking something to get an edge. How is 30g of creatine "natural"? Or 400g of protein? That's something like 15lbs of beef! The only difference is PEDs are more effective.
Yep, there is a problem in defining what is natural, which is why it isn't a good argument against PED usage to say it isn't natural.
 

Sweets

All Around Dumbass
Feb 9, 2015
8,797
10,065
Hendo just smashed Boetsch though, and he's not getting KO'd like Chuck was. Maybe I'm crazy but there isn't one guy on the roster that I would categorize as "needs to retire for his long term health". I put Chuck in that category before the Franklin fight. BJ was another one, as much as it pained me to admit it. I think Struve should think about it as well, simply because of the issues he's experienced. But the older guard on the roster right now are still competitive for the most part, against who they're being matched up against. And it's not like there's 50 of these guys, fighting 4 times a year, and taking up spots for other more deserving. There's only about 8-10 of them and they're only fighting 2 times a year for the most part. And no one on the roster is more deserving that them...at least not in my eyes.
As I said Hendo is not at his best but his style allows for it and he is still competitive, I just think that more could be done to make names for younger guys. Rather than trotting out the old reliables.
 

Sweets

All Around Dumbass
Feb 9, 2015
8,797
10,065
Does anyone really want to see Marquardt back in there either? I had a lump in my throat last time, and won't be watching another card he is on.