Was Brock's WWE antics to over the top for MMA?

[La Paix]

Good Lord, I keep saying something simple, are you saying that Brock could not have hyped it WWE style without resorting to "pieces of shit' I keep saying my issue is with that

He could've but that wouldn't be taking over and beyond what he's done in the past. And I quoted you to correct your "they" usage as if it wasnt just Brock on the mic. Also in post #6 of yours you said this.

So it's not just the POS comment you've taken issue with.

So why do you and some others talk like WME is doing something completely new and different here? Back in the 90s Scott Ferrozzo was one of MMAs big mouth bad boyz and he may be the official first indoor sunglasses wearing D-bag.

That's him cutting a promo, @MMAHAWK can you remember what event this was? UFC 4?

Then there's was Tank Abbot who was shit talking EVERYONE and flat out saying he doesn't respect martial arts. He made fun of Tres missing chest FFS and said he was getting aroused watching his fight highlight. Then Cabbage and him almost had that huge brawl in the octagon around the same time iirc. Ever hear of Harold Howard? You coming on or what bro?

Basically ever guy in the beginning of UFC cut a promo before entering the cage, this isn't anything new.

 

[Rambo John J]

hate it

 

[jason73]

They could have easily done all that wtihout calling Lewis and Stipe pieces of shit.

he called francis and stipe pieces of shit. that is my only problem with it . it was disrespectful . other than that its not any worse than any of the other manufactured drama over the years .the whole conor world tour shit vs aldo and floyd were full of disrespectful fake drama. this is mma now. you wanted it mainstream .now it is. shitty thing about the mainstream is it caters to simple minded idiots . look at all the shit thats on mainstream tv. a brock lesnar wwe crossover is huge for brock wwe its still real to me fangirls . other than conor coming back this is the biggest fight on the horizon numbers wise. the ufc has found a way to ruin the martial arts aspect of mma and turn it into a tv show

 

[La Paix]

I mentioned McGregor as the exception.

Ronda didn't do much smack talk at all leading up to the Holm fight other than saying she was fake like twice. Ronda sold because she finished people with brutal quickness.

Lesnar sold because he was Lesnar and brought the accompanying WWE heat. In fact, in all of his UFC career besides the Mir fight, he was always fairly humble in the lead up and said little. What smack did he talk to Cain, Carwin or Randy? None.

Liddell/Ortiz was two of the most popular fighters of all time finally facing off after years of build up and none of the drama was forced.

Rampage/Rashad I'll give you. That was all forced bs built up over a TUF season that led to a total disappointment of a fight.

This notion that fake drama sells has no basis in reality.

Cherry picking M8. You think it's just a coincidence that all the biggest PPVs feature the most known talkers? You acknowledge Conor but hes got the top 4 spots and is by far the biggest mouth to date. Look at all the opposition, those guys never drew much at all with any other opponent. Carwims, Diaz, Holm, Nunes, Evans, Couture, Velasquez... Team them up with a controversial type and all the sudden records get broke.

 

[member 603]

I love how in everyone's mind, Brock calling Francis and Stipe 'pieces of shit' crosses the line..... This is a company that has allowed big PPV draws like Chael make racist comments unpunished, it allowed Conor to call people 'faggots' and it go unpunished, Rashad made a joke about the Penn State pedophile situation, and it went unpunished (he himself apologized), and that cocksucker Colby makes plenty of racist and homophobic comments, but since he plays the "douchey Trump supporter" role, no one says shit about it..... But call two guys a piece of shit, in a OBVIOUSLY staged situation that makes MMA seem like professional wrestling and EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS.

 

[Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $]

I'm curious what you guys think. I admit that when I saw it live I didn't care for it. It just looked stupid and felt like the fake sport was bleeding over into the real sport. I'm curious what you guys think.

Apparently ESPN didn't like it and they wrote an article about it; Daniel Cormier's magical moment tarnished by Brock Lesnar.

I guess I'm most bothered by Lesnar even getting a title shot but it's all about money now.

I could have stomached it if both DC and Lesnar didn't have big ass shit
eating grins on them the whole time. At least try to make me believe that
your fake fighting is real.

Geez...

Also its good to see that ESPN just isnt gonna roll over and cosign
everything WME does. They coulda tried to feed us the shit sandwhich

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

He could've but that wouldn't be taking over and beyond what he's done in the past. And I quoted you to correct your "they" usage as if it wasnt just Brock on the mic. Also in post #6 of yours you said this.

So it's not just the POS comment you've taken issue with.

So why do you and some others talk like WME is doing something completely new and different here? Back in the 90s Scott Ferrozzo was one of MMAs big mouth bad boyz and he may be the official first indoor sunglasses wearing D-bag.

That's him cutting a promo, @MMAHAWK can you remember what event this was? UFC 4?

Then there's was Tank Abbot who was shit talking EVERYONE and flat out saying he doesn't respect martial arts. He made fun of Tres missing chest FFS and said he was getting aroused watching his fight highlight. Then Cabbage and him almost had that huge brawl in the octagon around the same time iirc. Ever hear of Harold Howard? You coming on or what bro?

Basically ever guy in the beginning of UFC cut a promo before entering the cage, this isn't anything new.

That is semantics, Brock is the POS that said that Stipe and Ngannou are POS, but WME still did not have the intelligence to clear with him before hand what he would say

Don't you think someone from WME should vette this before hand and not just let Brock ad lib shit?

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

he called francis and stipe pieces of shit. that is my only problem with it . it was disrespectful . other than that its not any worse than any of the other manufactured drama over the years .the whole conor world tour shit vs aldo and floyd were full of disrespectful fake drama. this is mma now. you wanted it mainstream .now it is. shitty thing about the mainstream is it caters to simple minded idiots . look at all the shit thats on mainstream tv. a brock lesnar wwe crossover is huge for brock wwe its still real to me fangirls . other than conor coming back this is the biggest fight on the horizon numbers wise. the ufc has found a way to ruin the martial arts aspect of mma and turn it into a tv show

We agree 100% then, you and me both have an issue with the pieces of shit comment. We both think the WWE drama is cheesy but we will put up with that, but both of us think the POS part is above and beyond unacceptable.

That is the main thing that I have the issue with. There is a million ways they could have donet his crap without actually having to say that, @BirdWatcher hence what I am saying.

And yes, it is cringeworthy what Harold and Tank also where saying lol

 

[La Paix]

Don't you think someone from WME should vette this before hand and not just let Brock ad lib shit?

No way. I didn't like it when Dana wouldn't let Silva change his walkout song or any other fighters for that reason. If the complaint is WME is ruining everything then why would you want them to have even more control? The fighters have enough rules to follow with the Reebok deal so to consider them having to clear what they plan to say is crazy imo. This would make the fighters personalities even more manufactured and fake which is not something I would support. I bet those at the top aren't too concerned about Brocks comments as long as the money is flowing in. And if we are all in here acknowledging that it was planned or scripted to an extent then why take the comments so seriously? Casuals don't care enough about Stipe and Ngannou to cry foul and us in the know should see it for what it is. Disrespectful? Absolutely. Is that the while idea? Yup! Once DC knocks Brock out it'll be all smiles and hand shakes like we've seen many times before.

Also DC loves this shit. From the UFC 200 build up.

When the story broke that Lesnar was being added to the show, and before it came out who is opponent was, Cormier immediately texted the current WWE star.

He said he wrote, "Hey Brock, is it Christmas time in the Cormier household, because Brock Lesnar means pay-per-view buys?"

"He didn't respond," said Cormier.

Then, after the commercial played with Lesnar on it, he got a response.

"Merry Christmas, DC," it read.

Cormier gets early Christmas present from Lesnar

Add that to what we just saw and how DC is an admitted fan of pro wrasslin its easy to see what's up. Similar story with the build up to GSP vs Bisping.



Oh and the point of Harold and Ferrozzo wasn't it being cringy but that these type of antics have been around with SEG, ZUFFA and now WME, nothing new here.

 

[MMAHAWK]

He could've but that wouldn't be taking over and beyond what he's done in the past. And I quoted you to correct your "they" usage as if it wasnt just Brock on the mic. Also in post #6 of yours you said this.

So it's not just the POS comment you've taken issue with.

So why do you and some others talk like WME is doing something completely new and different here? Back in the 90s Scott Ferrozzo was one of MMAs big mouth bad boyz and he may be the official first indoor sunglasses wearing D-bag.

That's him cutting a promo, @MMAHAWK can you remember what event this was? UFC 4?

Then there's was Tank Abbot who was shit talking EVERYONE and flat out saying he doesn't respect martial arts. He made fun of Tres missing chest FFS and said he was getting aroused watching his fight highlight. Then Cabbage and him almost had that huge brawl in the octagon around the same time iirc. Ever hear of Harold Howard? You coming on or what bro?

Basically ever guy in the beginning of UFC cut a promo before entering the cage, this isn't anything new.

The Ferrozzo promo was from UFC 10 I believe before UFC 11 when he was looking to fight Tank.
Howard was from UFC 3.

Ive stayed clear of this conversation but I must say that I enjoyed every second of it and the arena seemed to as well. I am however a pro wrestling and Pride FC fan so if others aren’t I can understand why they didn’t like it. I think Lesnar vs Cormier is a much closer and interesting fight then most are giving it credit for. It’s hard for me to say “Pride never die” then be disappointed when the UFC does its most Pride like thing in a long time.

 

[Rambo John J]

The Ferrozzo promo was from UFC 10 I believe before UFC 11 when he was looking to fight Tank.
Howard was from UFC 3.

Ive stayed clear of this conversation but I must say that I enjoyed every second of it and the arena seemed to as well. I am however a pro wrestling and Pride FC fan so if others aren’t I can understand why they didn’t like it. I think Lesnar vs Cormier is a much closer and interesting fight then most are giving it credit for. It’s hard for me to say “Pride never die” then be disappointed when the UFC does its most Pride like thing in a long time.

its true...glad to hear the arena dug it

MMA needs a fan influx one way or another

 

[kneeblock]

Cherry picking M8. You think it's just a coincidence that all the biggest PPVs feature the most known talkers? You acknowledge Conor but hes got the top 4 spots and is by far the biggest mouth to date. Look at all the opposition, those guys never drew much at all with any other opponent. Carwims, Diaz, Holm, Nunes, Evans, Couture, Velasquez... Team them up with a controversial type and all the sudden records get broke.

Conor got fast tracked because of his mouth, but he also is legitimately a great fighter, much as I hate to admit it. In other cases legitimate beef sells, but what we're discussing is fake BS drama like walking into the cage and shoving the champ for no reason while he giggles to himself. Each of your examples in those top selling PPVs did not have these characteristics. And again, if this is the way MMA is going, judging by the numbers, it's not working. Colby Covington does not deliver. Outside of his fights with Anderson, Chael never delivered big numbers either. This idea that manufactured hype sells is poorly sourced and easily debunked.

Conor is an exception precisely because he is much more than a smack talker. He elevates playing the carny to a whole different level and also has a rabid Irish fanbase that tunes in religiously. He's a legit fighter as well. Brock never resorted to these tactics in his prior appearances and still outsold everyone because he's a massive curiosity of a human and a pro wrestler. If we look at fighters who have headlined over fake heat, we can see it hasn't led to any appreciable bump.

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

No way. I didn't like it when Dana wouldn't let Silva change his walkout song or any other fighters for that reason. If the complaint is WME is ruining everything then why would you want them to have even more control? The fighters have enough rules to follow with the Reebok deal so to consider them having to clear what they plan to say is crazy imo. This would make the fighters personalities even more manufactured and fake which is not something I would support. I bet those at the top aren't too concerned about Brocks comments as long as the money is flowing in. And if we are all in here acknowledging that it was planned or scripted to an extent then why take the comments so seriously? Casuals don't care enough about Stipe and Ngannou to cry foul and us in the know should see it for what it is. Disrespectful? Absolutely. Is that the while idea? Yup! Once DC knocks Brock out it'll be all smiles and hand shakes like we've seen many times before.

Also DC loves this shit. From the UFC 200 build up.

When the story broke that Lesnar was being added to the show, and before it came out who is opponent was, Cormier immediately texted the current WWE star.

He said he wrote, "Hey Brock, is it Christmas time in the Cormier household, because Brock Lesnar means pay-per-view buys?"

"He didn't respond," said Cormier.

Then, after the commercial played with Lesnar on it, he got a response.

"Merry Christmas, DC," it read.

Cormier gets early Christmas present from Lesnar

Add that to what we just saw and how DC is an admitted fan of pro wrasslin its easy to see what's up. Similar story with the build up to GSP vs Bisping.



Oh and the point of Harold and Ferrozzo wasn't it being cringy but that these type of antics have been around with SEG, ZUFFA and now WME, nothing new here.

Because I do not look at Brock as that much of a fighter, he is clearly a fighter, but I mean in the sense in the truest form he is a walking talking commercial and coorporate greed symbol for me.

For your last part, it has been around with SEG and ZUFFA, but on a much less often scale, and of course WME, but people like me have always thought it was awful for the sport of MMA.

Resonate

 

[Rambo John J]

I got no problem with brock, he is just brocking

but I can't support blatant PED use...if all can juice it is even, and if none can juice it is even

the guys fighting on technique and experience alone are at a serious disadvantage...Honor an integrity are the downfall of the non Ped user at times...just doesn't seem right

 

[La Paix]

Conor got fast tracked because of his mouth, but he also is legitimately a great fighter, much as I hate to admit it. In other cases legitimate beef sells, but what we're discussing is fake BS drama like walking into the cage and shoving the champ for no reason while he giggles to himself. Each of your examples in those top selling PPVs did not have these characteristics. And again, if this is the way MMA is going, judging by the numbers, it's not working. Colby Covington does not deliver. Outside of his fights with Anderson, Chael never delivered big numbers either. This idea that manufactured hype sells is poorly sourced and easily debunked.

Conor is an exception precisely because he is much more than a smack talker. He elevates playing the carny to a whole different level and also has a rabid Irish fanbase that tunes in religiously. He's a legit fighter as well. Brock never resorted to these tactics in his prior appearances and still outsold everyone because he's a massive curiosity of a human and a pro wrestler. If we look at fighters who have headlined over fake heat, we can see it hasn't led to any appreciable bump.

We'll ya of course we haven't seen this exact scenario play out before. But I think you're forgetting or purposely leaving out key examples. They may not have been post title fight in cage shoving but they were still promo style behavior.

Brock - Marching around pointing at himself screaming "WHO IS THE FUCKING MAN!!" then goes on to flip off everyone in the crowd.

After making Mir eat a strawberry patch he got right in his face and chirped him hard AF. Remember his post fight speech about drinking Coors light and banging his wife? He was doing a cowboy impersonation with a big smile as the 3rd ended in his fight with Heath. I mean who else does this except Jeremy Stephens?

Sonnen - He didn't really come to life much until the spotlight was on him leading into his fight with Silva. There's literally countless things Chael said to him over thier rivalry including retiring him and spanking his wife. It was Silva who made the contact that sealed the deal on all the hype built up at the weigh ins before the rematch.

After the fight Silva invited Sonenn over for a BBQ.

 

[Disciplined Galt]

No fucking budo left in the fight game.

 

[Disciplined Galt]

And the difference to me with tank lies in that tank is a legit brawler. Brock and Cormier aren't, friend of mine once had to use threat of gun violence to get tank out of wrecking a house party. Conor and Brock are millionaires and less scary to me than politicians.

 

[FrankieNYC]

I guess I'm most bothered by Lesnar even getting a title shot but it's all about money now.

It always was

That is/was & always will be how it is in prize fighting

I don't mean you, but seeing post about how "WME is doing this & that" is so silly
Brock had a title fight after ONE UFC win over a mediocre fighter
Chael had a title fight in a new division after a loss in his own division.
Ronda was given a belt

Many more examples like this was before Lorenzo took bids on UFC.

Then I see people complaining about "antics" as if that is new to this era.
Pride was a lot closer to "pro wrestling" then UFC ever was.
Tyson bit a fighters ear & threatened to ass rape a journalist.
In the 70's Ali fought a can named Chuck Wepner because they wanted to sell Ali's trash talk & do the racial divide.

Face it ... we are fans of a sport that does these things.
They are not the norm
For every Kimbo/Dada, CM/Jackson fight there are hundreds that are not.

We are in the age where fans like to complain.
Watch the fights you care to & skip those you don't care about.

But remember ... all sports are about MONEY

Look at how many 2nd, 3rd & 4th place teams make playoffs now?
Its to make money.
Teams with 500 records are in the finals.
That is BS
But networks wanted more playoffs

 

[Ted Williams' head]

That is/was & always will be how it is in prize fighting

Amazing how many people forget this...

It's all about maximising revenue...

 

[FrankieNYC]

Amazing how many people forget this...

It's all about maximising revenue...

Of course

WTF does the NL play the AL in regular season?
Because they want the rev from Yanks/Mets every year.
The whole point of AL/NL was to keep them apart until WS, where the two best teams that were in first play each other.
That tradition is long gone due to money

 

[Mad Dog]

It always was

That is/was & always will be how it is in prize fighting

I don't mean you, but seeing post about how "WME is doing this & that" is so silly
Brock had a title fight after ONE UFC win over a mediocre fighter
Chael had a title fight in a new division after a loss in his own division.
Ronda was given a belt

Many more examples like this was before Lorenzo took bids on UFC.

Then I see people complaining about "antics" as if that is new to this era.
Pride was a lot closer to "pro wrestling" then UFC ever was.
Tyson bit a fighters ear & threatened to ass rape a journalist.
In the 70's Ali fought a can named Chuck Wepner because they wanted to sell Ali's trash talk & do the racial divide.

Face it ... we are fans of a sport that does these things.
They are not the norm
For every Kimbo/Dada, CM/Jackson fight there are hundreds that are not.

We are in the age where fans like to complain.
Watch the fights you care to & skip those you don't care about.

But remember ... all sports are about MONEY

Look at how many 2nd, 3rd & 4th place teams make playoffs now?
Its to make money.
Teams with 500 records are in the finals.
That is BS
But networks wanted more playoffs

I appreciate the lecture but you aren't really telling me anything that I didn't know already. I only stated what I didn't like.

My point about only being about money "now" really was about how title contention and a title picture has taken a back seat. It's much worse now under IMG than it was when the Fertitas were running the show. It's always been about money but there used to be an attempt to have a true contendership. Now having the biggest mouth helps you jump to the front of the line. Of course the Fertitas did that with Conor first.

To me it's just a mess now and I have trouble even caring about UFC titles. They've turned it into a joke.

 

[La Paix]

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/BlCMXGrHW8_/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=4sxcv0zs0r0w

 

[Robbie Hart]

I say it was sick

 

[Filthy]

I don't like it, but I look at it like a tampon commercial in the middle of the SuperBowl.

I'm not the target demographic, but if it pays the bills, who am I to complain?

 

[FrankieNYC]

It's much worse now under IMG than it was when the Fertitas were running the show. It's always been about money but there used to be an attempt to have a true contendership.

• Brock vs Couture
• Chael vs Jones
• Fertittas & Dana gave Ronda a belt when they made the division.

Those were many years before the sale & nothing is different & it never will be in prize fighting
There are also many more belts so more chances for "undeserved" shots

Hardcores can dislike it & think MMA is supposed to be altruistic, but it never was & never will be.

Bellator & Rizin are not altruistic either.

I don't think MLB, NFL, etc. should have teams in the playoffs that did not win the division. What is the point of the regular season? But they do & there is no use complaining ... I just enjoy the games

But thinking things are different is just flat out incorrect.


View: https://youtu.be/ksGE4cqRzPM?t=18s