So You SOB's Give Sage His Own Dance?

JohnyHendricksBeard said:
That's pretty much the short end of average in the WW division, the guys are just plain bigger.
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Works for Robbie and it's 2 inches shorter than Carlos it's not at all bad..

JohnyHendricksBeard said:
He's also 19, is coming off his UFC debut, and it was just a joke. Look at some shirtless Sage pictures, it'll help you relax.
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He has been attacking in straight lines his whole life tis the style and he'll do it straight onto some knuckles. Nah to feminine...

I'm not mad about the rainbow either, just bemused with a tinge of helpful.
 
JohnyHendricksBeard said:
74 inch reach on a guy who's 5'11 > than 74 inch on a guy who's 5'9

Oh, so you like your men more manly?
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Marginal, Conor's footwork has the potential to make up that difference. He will but he'll still do better than Sage at 85.

Ye probably having a twink around would annoy me.
 
Big Sweets said:
Marginal, Conor's footwork has the potential to make up that difference. Not that I actually believe he will but he'll still do better than Sage at 85.
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I already agreed with you on that, lol. Conor's footwork at this point is over rated. It didn't stop Mendes from taking him down. Let him get a couple fights against high end fighters with full camps before you declare him revolutionary.
 
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JohnyHendricksBeard said:
I already agreed with you on that, lol. Conor's footwork at this point is over rated. It didn't stop Mendes from taking him down. Let him get a couple fights against high end fighters with full camps before you declare him revolutionary.
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What about the reach don't run now without accepting you were throwing up smoke at least??

aaaahhhahahahahha What??? I've been circumspect at best, you can not put words in my mouth that would be peachy.. It did stop 40% roughly of them, it also gave Chad what? two decent opportunities to land in the 5 forgotten minutes of stand up...
I stated fact you can keep the bullshit.
 
JohnyHendricksBeard said:
They also have wrestling Conor can only dream of, and that's very relevant.
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Conor has striking they can only dream of, but that wasn't the argument you were making. You were saying someone of that size is too small to compete at welterweight. I gave two examples of welterweights with similar or smaller attributes, in the two categories discussed, that have been successful to a high degree. Therefore it would not be height or reach that stopped Conor from success at WW, should that time ever come, but other factors.
 
Big Sweets said:
What about the reach don't run now without accepting you were throwing up smoke at least??

aaaahhhahahahahha What??? I've been circumspect at best, you can not put words in my mouth that would be peachy.. It did stop 40% roughly of them, it also gave Chad what? two decent opportunities to land in the 5 forgotten minutes of stand up...
I stated fact you can keep the bullshit.
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I agreed from the word go that Sage at 85 < Conor at 70, but ultimately neither of them obtain titles in those divisions. Conor's size is why, same for Sage. The guys who are similar size to Conor at welterweight have outstanding wrestling which allows them to effectively close distance and initiate a clinch better than someone like Conor would likely be able to. That second paragraph, I honestly have no idea what the hell that says, lol. The point I was making is it's highly speculative for people to act as if his footwork negates any potential shortfall, which is exactly where the conversation goes anytime a short coming is pointed out. ie, He's currently the interim FW champ and you're already explaining that his footwork could negate a reach advantage at Welterweight. Let's see how his footwork does against Aldo, Edgar, or Mendes on a full camp before we talk about how it would do against Condit, or Lawler.
 
JohnyHendricksBeard said:
I agreed from the word go that Sage at 85 < Conor at 70, but ultimately neither of them obtain titles in those divisions. Conor's size is why, same for Sage. The guys who are similar size to Conor at welterweight have outstanding wrestling which allows them to effectively close distance and initiate a clinch better than someone like Conor would likely be able to. That second paragraph, I honestly have no idea what the hell that says, lol. The point I was making is it's highly speculative for people to act as if his footwork negates any potential shortfall, which is exactly where the conversation goes anytime a short coming is pointed out. ie, He's currently the interim FW champ and you're already explaining that his footwork could negate a reach advantage at Welterweight. Let's see how his footwork does against Aldo, Edgar, or Mendes on a full camp before we talk about how it would do against Condit, or Lawler.
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Ahhh the old wall of text... it's 5 AM (hence the composition of the last post) I'm going to bed I'll wade through that swamp tomorrow.
 
Zeph said:
Conor has striking they can only dream of, but that wasn't the argument you were making. You were saying someone of that size is too small to compete at welterweight. I gave two examples of welterweights with similar or smaller attributes, in the two categories discussed, that have been successful to a high degree. Therefore it would not be height or reach that stopped Conor from success at WW, should that time ever come, but other factors.
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No, I said Conor, not "someone" The guys you brought up, have vastly different skill sets.
 
JohnyHendricksBeard said:
In all seriousness only a handful of guys in the sport have the technical skill set and the right blend of build/height to even potentially do it. Sage, unfortunately, isn't one of them. Wrong body.

2 division is pretty attainable by a few guys, but 3 is pretty much a pipe dream. Especially because Zuffa seems reluctant to let super fights happen.
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2 division is pretty attainable by a few guys

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Out of 62 champs 2 have done this. I'm not a math doctor but I think that's a very small percentage.
 
BirdWatcher said:
2 division is pretty attainable by a few guys

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Out of 62 champs 2 have done this. I'm not a math doctor but I think that's a very small percentage.
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You don't think Jon Jones, Daniel Cormier or Frankie Edgar are within reach of grabbing a second belt?

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JohnyHendricksBeard said:
You don't think Jon Jones, Daniel Cormier or Frankie Edgar are within reach of grabbing a second belt?

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Possibly yes but that's still a very small percentage overall. Sorry not trying to split hairs here but a 2 division Champ is very rare and hard to do, that's all I'm saying. The ones who have or will achieve this are in a whole other class of greatness IMO.

I think a problem is the risk/reward now and how the current fan base (at least in NA) view the fighters. If your not 15-0 you get called a scrub, look at the disrespect DC constantly gets because of events that had little to do with him. His only loss is to a GOAT candidate who is sidelined due to his own actions and DC gets criticised for holding the belt. If any fighter is dominant in their division, doesn't even have to be a champ, and decides to move up for a challenge (Bendo) they have got a ton of respect from me. I can see if Jon or DC moved up to HW and didn't have the same success so many would use that to say they were never any good in the first place and that they relied on weight cutting/size to win. Ridiculous but you know you'd read it somewhere.

I think to be a champion in one division is very impressive and to do it in another one is amazing. It takes a lot of time to prep and adjust to go up or down a class and time is short in MMA. Guys like BJ and Couture are legit legends for doing things like this and be to be so willing to take a path of high resistance and not be so worried about W-L records
 
BirdWatcher said:
Possibly yes but that's still a very small percentage overall. Sorry not trying to split hairs here but a 2 division Champ is very rare and hard to do, that's all I'm saying. The ones who have or will achieve this are in a whole other class of greatness IMO.

I think a problem is the risk/reward now and how the current fan base (at least in NA) view the fighters. If your not 15-0 you get called a scrub, look at the disrespect DC constantly gets because of events that had little to do with him. His only loss is to a GOAT candidate who is sidelined due to his own actions and DC gets criticised for holding the belt. If any fighter is dominant in their division, doesn't even have to be a champ, and decides to move up for a challenge (Bendo) they have got a ton of respect from me. I can see if Jon or DC moved up to HW and didn't have the same success so many would use that to say they were never any good in the first place and that they relied on weight cutting/size to win. Ridiculous but you know you'd read it somewhere.

I think to be a champion in one division is very impressive and to do it in another one is amazing. It takes a lot of time to prep and adjust to go up or down a class and time is short in MMA. Guys like BJ and Couture are legit legends for doing things like this and be to be so willing to take a path of high resistance and not be so worried about W-L records
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I meant it when I said "a few" It's absolutely a very low percentage but the chance is certainly there.

I do however disagree with your assertion about DC or Jones though. DC has already shown success at HW, and he and Jones both train and fight at the same weight as HW's elite. LHW is a redundant division at this point and should be scrapped.
 
JohnyHendricksBeard said:
I meant it when I said "a few" It's absolutely a very low percentage but the chance is certainly there.

I do however disagree with your assertion about DC or Jones though. DC has already shown success at HW, and he and Jones both train and fight at the same weight as HW's elite. LHW is a redundant division at this point and should be scrapped.
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In no way do I think that either of those guys could be looked at in a negative way as far as fighting credentials, Im just saying a lot of people will if they moved up and didn't dominant.
 
BirdWatcher said:
In no way do I think that either of those guys could be looked at in a negative way as far as fighting credentials, Im just saying a lot of people will if they moved up and didn't dominant.
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I'm saying I'd be among that group. If a guy who walks around and trains around 230, moves up to fight other guys who weigh 230-240 (Werdum, Cain, Browne) and gets dummied, it looks a lot like all his success is based solely on his ability to cut weight. I don't really question Cormier because we've seen him have success at HW, but Jones doesn't seem to have any interest in moving up.
 
JohnyHendricksBeard said:
I'm saying I'd be among that group. If a guy who walks around and trains around 230, moves up to fight other guys who weigh 230-240 (Werdum, Cain, Browne) and gets dummied, it looks a lot like all his success is based solely on his ability to cut weight. I don't really question Cormier because we've seen him have success at HW, but Jones doesn't seem to have any interest in moving up.
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Ahhhh. I'm not sure how Jon would do at HW but I'd think it would be awesome to see him try seeing he's so dominant at LHW. I think Werdum would beat him 9/10 times.
 
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