General Thoughts on Georgia shooting?

[ThatOneDude]

I went on building sites a lot as a kid, guess I was lucky to be white and from the UK.

To be fair, this guy was 25 (I think) and not a kid.

 

[Jehannum]

To be fair, this guy was 25 (I think) and not a kid.

if it's a crime it's a crime, and if that guy was a threat to the neighbourhood because he might steal something, so was I.

 

[Splinty]

I went on building sites a lot as a kid, guess I was lucky to be white and from the UK.

A 25 year old kid?

 

[The Big Guy]

a threat to what, belongings that weren't nailed down? and for that he deserved to die?

I mean citizens that will act. People stand by and watch horrible shit everyday. I believe part of the reason they reacted is the father was former police. So many people stand by and dont help when they could engage suspects.

How many videos have you seen of beating on subways, Paul Walker burning alive, men drowning all while people stand around and stare. Or pull out there phone to record.

That's what I'm saying. I'm sure the neighbors were grateful someone cared enough to try and stop the guy who "allegedy" has stolen the from the neighborhood multiple times. It will all come out

 

[Filthy]

Separate thought:
And even then, forgetting all that, this is how gun owners become gun owners worst night mare and make sure our guns get taken. This is the dumbest escalation I've seen in a long time. It shows in so many ways how citizens arrest laws should be changed. It shows irresponsible gun owners escalating the situation instead of deescalating -- the latter something every CHL class has championed for decades. There's a tie in of the stupidity of open carry and the potential for ambiguity and implied threat, leading to de facto escalation and response.
Nothing about this is good gun habit.

agree with all that, but should point out -
he's a retired cop, and unnecessary escalation is endemic in the profession.

I really want to understand the 'immediate knowledge', but this looks like vigilantism.

 

[Jehannum]

A 25 year old kid?

well apparently early 20s is underage to many Americans, but I never said he was a kid, I said I was.

 

[ThatOneDude]

if it's a crime it's a crime, and if that guy was a threat to the neighbourhood because he might steal something, so was I.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[ThatOneDude]

I mean citizens that will act. People stand by and watch horrible shit everyday. I believe part of the reason they reacted is the father was former police. So many people stand by and dont help when they could engage suspects.

How many videos have you seen of beating on subways, Paul Walker burning alive, men drowning all while people stand around and stare. Or pull out there phone to record.

That's what I'm saying. I'm sure the neighbors were grateful someone cared enough to try and stop the guy who "allegedy" has stolen the neighborhood multiple times. It will a come out

This isn't like any of those things.

 

[Filthy]

so was he just out jogging or not?

seems people are still outraged on instagram and I'm not seeing anything in the comments about it being a burglar out to steal again

if the people who ran him down and killed him didn't witness a burglary, or weren't told that by someone that they had witnessed him committing a crime, what they did is illegal. (AFAIK)

 

[The Big Guy]

Well, I think thats where it gets interesting.

If they had first hand, no shit, witnessed him stealing shit and they tried to stop him and he then went for someones gun...it's a series of terrible decisions that ended up getting him killed. But if you play stupid games you win stupid prizes.

That being said. If they did not have first hand knowledge that it was him, and tried to stop him with guns, and he was defending himself from 2 armed idiots, then they should be in jail for murder. Like I've said earlier, if I'm on a run, and 2 random dudes with guns try to stop me, there's going to be an issue, and I'm going to shoot them.

I feel like we are missing some critically important details, but that video taken as it is looks terrible.

This isn't like any of those things.

No but it's someone responding to crime or suspected crime. Not people going inside and sticking their head in the sand.

I had a guy who broke into multiple houses in my neighborhood about 2 years ago. I chased him and slammed him for the cops. They didnt even try to contact the homeowner with missing property and let him go. A few streets over.
That was a monday.
On wednesday hes back trying to get into a house. I get a call and like 5 neighbors start looking. He actually broke into my truck while I was out looking for him. I caught him in a backyard trying to open a door after my friend said he seen him going southern along the fence and i caught up and beat the shit outta him. The cops arrested him and charged him with a whole bunch of shit. For weeks prior ee had police representatives coming and promising to stop the crime. They put undercovers in our neighborhood and didnt catch shit for weeks while a few cars got stolen and about 8 houses broken into.

It took residents and workers to chase this fuck down and send him away bloody. I even got court papers and they want to testify in his trial if he doesn't plead out.

Same guy two times in 3 days. My point is police take too long and usually people are gone by then.

 

[Dick Niaz]

Both sides have an argument for and against them. The only thing for sure is the media and politicians will leverage this for their own gain and neither group truly cares about the deceased or his family. It is a shame, but the only reason we are hearing about this instead of all the hundreds of wrongful deaths in places like Baltimore or Chicago every day is because the racial discrepancy makes for controversy and controversy makes for headlines.

 

[ThatOneDude]

No but it's someone responding to crime or suspected crime. Not people going inside and sticking their head in the sand.

I had a guy who broke into multiple houses in my neighborhood about 2 years ago. I chased him and slammed him for the cops. They didnt even try to contact the homeowner with missing property and let him go. A few streets over.
That was a monday.
On wednesday hes back trying to get into a house. I get a call and like 5 neighbors start looking. He actually broke into my truck while I was out looking for him. I caught him in a backyard trying to open a door after my friend said he seen him going southern along the fence and i caught up and beat the shit outta him. The cops arrested him and charged him with a whole bunch of shit. For weeks prior ee had police representatives coming and promising to stop the crime. They put undercovers in our neighborhood and didnt catch shit for weeks while a few cars got stolen and about 8 houses broken into.

It took residents and workers to chase this fuck down and send him away bloody. I even got court papers and they want to testify in his trial if he doesn't plead out.

Same guy two times in 3 days. My point is police take too long and usually people are gone by then.

Notice in your scenario you didn't escalate straight to a firearm....And you had first hand knowledge of what happened....

 

[The Big Guy]

agree with all that, but should point out -
he's a retired cop, and unnecessary escalation is endemic in the profession.

I really want to understand the 'immediate knowledge', but this looks like vigilantism.

So if they prove he was breaking into people's shit and they guys saw him you will say free them?

 

[The Big Guy]

Notice in your scenario you didn't escalate straight to a firearm....And you had first hand knowledge of what happened....

Yea I didnt have a gun but I wish I did the first day he had a box cutter I took from him.

They have a caller matching his description leaving a residence right before the shooting. There was more people involved in spotting and following him.There supposed to be a video of him breaking into shit in the neighborhood.
I would call that prior knowledge

Also he ran at a guy with a gun. It's legal open carry you can stand outside with a gun. You can not try to take someone's firearm. That's illegal.

 

[ThatOneDude]

Yea I didnt have a gun but I wish I did the first day he had a box cutter I took from him.

They have a caller matching his description leaving a residence right before the shooting. There was more people involved in spotting and following him.There supposed to be a video of him breaking into shit in the neighborhood.
I would call that prior knowledge

Also he ran at a guy with a gun. It's legal open carry you can stand outside with a gun. You can not try to take someone's firearm. That's illegal.

Do we have anyone who for a fact no shit, knows its him.

It's legal to have a gun yes, it's not legal to try to stop someones movement in a public area by using force, again, if I'm on a run and 2 guys with guns try to stop me, I'm shooting them. No questions asked.

 

[Yossarian]

That's not the point. It's the media ignoring multiple murders a day and focusing on this one dude. It's a tragedy hes dead but they twist it and make this whole racism claim. When the numbers tell a different story completely.

The media sells racism. It's among many reasons it's still there.

 

[The Big Guy]

Do we have anyone who for a fact no shit, knows its him.

It's legal to have a gun yes, it's not legal to try to stop someones movement by using force, again, if I'm on a run and 2 guys with guns try to stop me, I'm shooting them. No questions asked.

If your on the run and you shoot 2 people you getting a life sentence. Or just take your loss and do a year or two for being a thief.

That's the stupidest thing I've seen today. That's the problem with america.

"I'm a POS robbing people and if anyone stops me I'll kill them" wtf bro

 

[ThatOneDude]

If your on the run and you shoot 2 people you getting a life sentence. Or just take your loss and do a year or two for being a thief.

That's the stupidest thing I've seen today. That's the problem with america.

"I'm a POS robbing people and if anyone stops me I'll kill them" wtf bro

If I am on a run, and 2 people try to stop me with guns, I'm going home to my wife and kid because I have a lawyer on retainer, and I am able to defend myself in Texas.

Why is me being on a run all of a sudden me robbing people? I'm just on a run.

 

[Splinty]

No but it's someone responding to crime or suspected crime. Not people going inside and sticking their head in the sand.

I had a guy who broke into multiple houses in my neighborhood about 2 years ago. I chased him and slammed him for the cops. They didnt even try to contact the homeowner with missing property and let him go. A few streets over.
That was a monday.
On wednesday hes back trying to get into a house. I get a call and like 5 neighbors start looking. He actually broke into my truck while I was out looking for him. I caught him in a backyard trying to open a door after my friend said he seen him going southern along the fence and i caught up and beat the shit outta him. The cops arrested him and charged him with a whole bunch of shit. For weeks prior ee had police representatives coming and promising to stop the crime. They put undercovers in our neighborhood and didnt catch shit for weeks while a few cars got stolen and about 8 houses broken into.

It took residents and workers to chase this fuck down and send him away bloody. I even got court papers and they want to testify in his trial if he doesn't plead out.

Same guy two times in 3 days. My point is police take too long and usually people are gone by then.

Why didn't you shoot him?
Pretty irresponsible of you to confront the guy without a gun

 

[The Big Guy]

If I am on a run, and 2 people try to stop me with guns, I'm going home to my wife and kid because I have a lawyer on retainer, and I am able to defend myself in Texas.

Why is me being on a run all of a sudden me robbing people? I'm just on a run.

I thought you on the same kind of run as the guy in the video

Now if your were just running for exercise then yes you should defend youself. I don't think that's what happened here

Why didn't you shoot him?
Pretty irresponsible of you to confront the guy without a gun

I made the choice to do that. Plus I'm not legally allowed to have a gun. But these two men were. So if he was committing a crime they did the right thing. If he was not they are in the wrong.

We will see if the burglary video is released and if there was fingerprints. Theres still more evidence that hasn't been released.

 

[ThatOneDude]

I thought you on the same kind of run as the guy in the video

Now if your were just running for exercise then yes you should defend youself. I don't think that's what happened here

I made the choice to do that. Plus I'm not legally allowed to have a gun. But these two men were. So if he was committing a crime they did the right thing. If he was not they are in the wrong.

We will see if the burglary video is released and if there was fingerprints. Theres still more evidence that hasn't been released.

I think the part I bolded is very important. At this point no one really knows except for 4 people, 1 being dead. The cost of them being wrong is a steep one, they seem like a couple of hotheads who probably shouldn't have guns. Hell I personally have had to pull a gun on someone in the real world, both of us are still alive.

I caught the guy casing my house when my wife was 9 months pregnant.

 

[The Big Guy]

I think the part I bolded is very important. At this point no one really knows except for 4 people, 1 being dead. The cost of them being wrong is a steep one, they seem like a couple of hotheads who probably shouldn't have guns. Hell I personally have had to pull a gun on someone in the real world, both of us are still alive.

I caught the guy casing my house when my wife was 9 months pregnant.

Imagine if tried to disarm you and he ended up dead.

Then the world made a narrative about how he was trying to get a lost ball or smell a flower and you murdered him. People say you hunted him down and you shouldn't have been armed. Shouldn't have assumed he was a suspect. Just hid inside and called the police

 

[ThatOneDude]

Imagine if tried to disarm you and he ended up dead.

Then the world made a narrative about how he was trying to get a lost ball or smell a flower and you murdered him. People say you hunted him down and you shouldn't have been armed. Shouldn't have assumed he was a suspect. Just hid inside and called the police

I had him on camera, at 9:30 at night, on my property, that's a dangerous game to play in Texas.

 

[The Big Guy]

I had him on camera, at 9:30 at night, that's a dangerous game to play in Texas.

Ok maybe he broke down and was gonna knock on your door for help. Maybe the media only gets a 10 second clip of the 5 minutes encounter. I'm just saying there more evidence that points in the two men's favor.

Imo you had every right to draw on that guy

 

[ThatOneDude]

Ok maybe he broke down and was gonna knock in your door for help. Maybe the media only gets a 10 second clip of the 5 minutes encounter. I'm just saying there more evidence that points in their favor.

Imo you had every right to draw on that guy

Not really, it's pretty cut and dry. I watched him go on the side of my house checking shit out, try getting into our vehicles etc etc.

I'm pretty sure he shit himself once he realized what the score was. When he didn't realize what was going on, because of the very bright lights shining in his eyes, he told me "You can't tell me what to do". He looked like the typical stoner loser from California who moves here thinking they are going to turn Texas into that sort of shit hole.