General Thoughts on Georgia shooting?

[ThatOneDude]

Where you guys getting 13 miles?

I also have not been able to find the 13 mile facts.

 

[Splinty]

He loves to run. He was on a jog. In Khakis. That aren't sweaty.

I'm spamming this thread a little now catching up but this just keeps standing out to me...

I'm not trying to tell you all about this dude, but y'all have to let some of that go as 'evidence'.

Do you know any southern black people? There's a giant culture gap down here and it goes to everything including exercising. You and I prob go put on our synthetic moisture wicking gear and running shoes that we took the time to pick out.

My black friends? Growing up they ran in almost exactly what this dude is wearing. White T, shorts that were often not running shorts, and usually the same shoes they played basketball in. So you and I aren't going to go for a run in a white T, khakis, and high tops. But that's exactly what my black friends were wearing for ANY sporting activity. Weight lifting at the gym, basketball, running, etc. That was dressing down for the activity.

Also I can run many miles in February in Texas and my shorts aren't sweaty. I also sometimes run and then stop to walk when I'm tired or something is interesting.

None of that seems strange to me.


I've got zero reason so far to believe this guy wasn't out jogging. His family says he was. He has a history of it confirmed by friends and neighbors who said he was running regularly.



So far I've got a guy out for a jog/walk 2 miles from his house that stops, looks inside a construction site, probably goes down the dock (video confirmation pending), then takes off.
Neighbors Ring doorbell notices go off (again, news reports) and so they call 911 about a "suspicious person" (as per your post in this thread, I haven't verified that's the 911 call).
Some dudes are sure this is the same guy that must have broken into their car 2 months before. Maybe they are aware of some fishing gear being stolen from someone else (that wasn't reported to police) maybe not.

Its unclear how the gunmen are aware of this suspicious person. Did a neighbor call them? Did the former cop listen to police blotters? Gun men state they see him running down the street ( https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf#page=1 ) Regardless, he orders his son to come on and lets go get him.
Unclear events before the video we have been watching. Did the gunmen see him and pass him to stop in the road? Did they stop waiting for him? Unknown right now.
Then the video we have all seen.

 

[ThatOneDude]

I'm spamming this thread a little now catching up but this just keeps standing out to me...

I'm not trying to tell you all about this dude, but y'all have to let some of that go as 'evidence'.

Do you know any southern black people? There's a giant culture gap down here and it goes to everything including exercising. You and I prob go put on our synthetic moisture wicking gear and running shoes that we took the time to pick out.

My black friends? Growing up they ran in almost exactly what this dude is wearing. White T, shorts that were often not running shorts, and usually the same shoes they played basketball in. So you and I aren't going to go for a run in a white T, khakis, and high tops. But that's exactly what my black friends were wearing for ANY sporting activity. Weight lifting at the gym, basketball, running, etc. That was dressing down for the activity.

Also I can run many miles in February in Texas and my shorts aren't sweaty. I also sometimes run and then stop to walk when I'm tired or something is interesting.

None of that seems strange to me.


I've got zero reason so far to believe this guy wasn't out jogging. His family says he was. He has a history of it confirmed by friends and neighbors who said he was running regularly.



So far I've got a guy out for a jog/walk 2 miles from his house that stops, looks inside a construction site, probably goes down the dock (video confirmation pending), then takes off.
Neighbors Ring doorbell notices go off (again, news reports) and so they call 911 about a "suspicious person" (as per your post in this thread, I haven't verified that's the 911 call).
Some dudes are sure this is the same guy that must have broken into their car 2 months before. Maybe they are aware of some fishing gear being stolen from someone else (that wasn't reported to police) maybe not.

Its unclear how the gunmen are aware of this suspicious person. Did a neighbor call them? Did the former cop listen to police blotters? Gun men state they see him running down the street ( https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf#page=1 ) Regardless, he orders his son to come on and lets go get him.
Unclear events before the video we have been watching. Did the gunmen see him and pass him to stop in the road? Did they stop waiting for him? Unknown right now.
Then the video we have all seen.

Your last paragraph is really the biggest issue for me, and that remains unclear.

 

[Splinty]

Your last paragraph is really the biggest issue for me, and that remains unclear.

I linked the police report. Gun men stated to the police:

McMichael stated he and Travis got in the truck and drove down Satilla Drive toward Burford Drive McMichael stated when they arrived at the intersection of Satilla Drive and Holmes Drive, they saw the unidentified male running down Burford drive McMichael then stated Travis drive down Burford and attempted to cut off the male. McMichael stated the unidentified male turned around and began running back the direction from which he came and " Roddy " attempted to block him which was unsuccessful Michael stated he then jumped into the bed of the truck and he and Travis continued to Holmes in an attempt to intercept him . McMichael stated they saw the unidentified male and shouted " stop stop , we want to talk to you " . Michael stated they pulled up beside the male and shouted stop again at which time Travis exited the truck with the shotgun .

Some of this doesn't match that video. Bolded part is the intersection they are at in the video.
They are at the intersection intercepting him and there's a lot of video that there is no truck next to or behind Ahmaud.
They do not pull up next to Ahmaud and shout to stop again.
Travis was already exited the vehicle at the intersection quite a distance before Ahmaud's arrival at the intersection.

I don't know what matters, but the stuff before the bold is the gun men account of what happen that we can't see.

 

[ThatOneDude]

I linked the police report. Gun men stated to the police:



Some of this doesn't match that video. Bolded part is the intersection they are at in the video.
They are at the intersection intercepting him and there's a lot of video that there is no truck next to or behind Ahmaud.
They do not pull up next to Ahmaud and shout to stop again.
Travis was already exited the vehicle at the intersection quite a distance before Ahmaud's arrival at the intersection.

I don't know what matters, but the stuff before the bold is the gun men account of what happen that we can't see.

I personally think they are a couple of morons who killed a guy based on nothing more than him running. But there are still large chunks of the story missing and the water is just getting muddier with 4chan pulling their shit.

I think you made some great points about work out wear in different cultures in America.

 

[Splinty]

I personally think they are a couple of morons who killed a guy based on nothing more than him running.

Ethically, I'd have a hard time having my mind changed that anything about this was a good move by the gunmen.
They are in a truck. 911 has already been called. How hard is it to just follow the guy at a whopping 8 miles per hour? Who grabs their shotgun to block the path for a guy running down the street in broad daylight? This is some of the dumbest neighborhood watch shit I've ever heard.
Every single thing screams irresponsible gun owners.

Now legally, maybe something in the unknown area is going to let these guys get off. But I don't see it so far. I think the intent of the law is going to over rule the dramatic escalation caused by their behavior. There's a news article from yesterday talking about previous cases with citizens arrest and the Georgia supreme court makes commentary to that effect. There doesn't appear to be the required knowledge of crime or probable cause of a felony committed for their citizens arrest defense. I'm not sure so far we have anything more than "tresspassing".

 

[ThatOneDude]

Ethically, I'd have a hard time having my mind changed that anything about this was a good move by the gunmen.
They are in a truck. 911 has already been called. How hard is it to just follow the guy at a whopping 8 miles per hour? Who grabs their shotgun to block the path for a guy running down the street in broad daylight? This is some of the dumbest neighborhood watch shit I've ever heard.
Every single thing screams irresponsible gun owners.

Now legally, maybe something in the unknown area is going to let these guys get off. But I don't see it so far. I think the intent of the law is going to over rule the dramatic escalation caused by their behavior. There's a news article from yesterday talking about previous cases with citizens arrest and the Georgia supreme court makes commentary to that effect. There doesn't appear to be the required knowledge of crime or probable cause of a felony committed for their citizens arrest defense. I'm not sure so far we have anything more than "tresspassing".

Yea these idiots went from 0-retard real quick. Texas is fairly liberal with self defense, you can shoot or kill someone for a lot of reasons, trespassing isn't one of them. I agree, they could have followed the guy, not sure why they decided to go all Rambo.

We have idiots like this in my neighborhood, go and "patrol" the neighborhood at night with fucking body armor,bunch of dummies.

 

[The Big Guy]

Free the taxpaying citizens with a history of public service and no criminal record. Sorry for arberys family but he should have been taught to respect private property.

You can get shot just being on someone's property all through the south. Its common knowledge especially with old farmers. You stay the fuck off people's land. I've been shot at with rock salt just for picking shrooms

This whole story is ridiculous. Let's show nonstop hours of coverage. Maybe I'll start spamming threads of murders that get zero coverage. They will be more representative of the actual crime numbers. With stats and all for the nerds and naysayers

 

[ThatOneDude]

Free the taxpaying citizens with a history of public service and no criminal record. Sorry for arberys family but he should have been taught to respect private property.

You can get shot just being on someone's property all through the south. Its common knowledge especially with old farmers. You stay the fuck off people's land. I've been shot at with rock salt just for picking shrooms

This whole story is ridiculous. Let's show nonstop hours of coverage. Maybe I'll start spamming threads of murders that get zero coverage. They will be more representative of the actual crime numbers. With stats and all for the nerds and naysayers

He's not on a farm. He's checking out a house being built, not that uncommon, but I'd like to see the rest of the video.

 

[The Big Guy]

He's not on a farm. He's checking out a house being built, not that uncommon, but I'd like to see the rest of the video.

I disagree. I do construction and nobody's allowed on the site. We could get sued If you get hurt and tools are stolen constantly and once somethings stolen the thieves always return a week or two later

Dude was scoping out the house. Shit was stolen from there before. I bet he has a nice set of fishing gear in his parents garage that they won't admit too

 

[The Big Guy]

He's not on a farm. He's checking out a house being built, not that uncommon, but I'd like to see the rest of the video.

Also since he has the eye of a criminal he noticed the camera immediately. Its something us criminals practice. I doubt he would steal anything that day more likely comeback at night and dressed for stealing

 

[ThatOneDude]

I disagree. I do construction and nobody's allowed on the site. We could get sued If you get hurt and tools are stolen constantly and once somethings stolen the thieves always return a week or two later

Dude was scoping out the house. Shit was stolen from there before. I bet he has a nice set of fishing gear in his parents garage that they won't admit too

There's houses always being built in my neighborhood, I always see people checking them out etc. Hell when my own house was being built I'd go to check on the progress and find people looking around. Now if they were in the house when all the appliances and shit are in that's a different story, but that's not what happened here.

 

[The Big Guy]

There's houses always being built in my neighborhood, I always see people checking them out etc. Hell when my own house was being built I'd go to check on the progress and find people looking around. Now if they were in the house when all the appliances and shit are in that's a different story, but that's not what happened here.

I wonder how many people from outside your neighborhood with recent theft charges walked around your house during construction? I wonder how many ran away when you approached?

Also I think it was being renovated not new construction. I may be wrong.

 

[ThatOneDude]

I wonder how many people from outside your neighborhood with recent theft charges walked around your house during construction? I wonder how many ran away when you approached?

Also I think it was being renovated not new construction. I may be wrong.

@Splinty posted the Google Street view of the house, there's no house there so I am assuming it's a new build. It was all framed out and didn't have doors.

 

[The Big Guy]

I think the final piece of evidence that will come out that will sway the people who say he was just jogging will be the videos of previous break ins.

I believe it was the 911 caller that said he was filmed prior. Maybe it was the shooters interviews. But they said he "looked" like the guy who had been filmed. That's the video/s everyone should be trying to get

 

[ThatOneDude]

I think the final piece of evidence that will come out that will sway the people who say he was just jogging will be the videos of previous break ins.

I believe it was the 911 caller that said he was filmed prior. Maybe it was the shooters interviews. But they said he "looked" like the guy who had been filmed. That's the video/s everyone should be trying to get

I thought the previous break in theory has been debunked?

 

[The Big Guy]

I thought the previous break in theory has been debunked?

"The McMichaels told police that they had decided to arm themselves and pursue Arbery because they suspected him of committing burglaries in the Satilla Shores neighborhood. They also told police they had seen Arbery on earlier surveillance tapes and were concerned that he could be armed because they said they saw him on another occasion sticking “his hand down his pants."

 

[Filthy]

I think the final piece of evidence that will come out that will sway the people who say he was just jogging will be the videos of previous break ins.

I believe it was the 911 caller that said he was filmed prior. Maybe it was the shooters interviews. But they said he "looked" like the guy who had been filmed. That's the video/s everyone should be trying to get

I heard the same thing, that they recognized him from prior video when he ran past. But it also seems like that video doesn't exist any more.

but even if they did ID him from a previous burglary, I don't know if that counts as 'immediate first-hand knowledge' of a felony, if it was a felony from a couple weeks or months ago.

 

[Splinty]

You can get shot just being on someone's property all through the south.

On the one hand you seem to be making a call for the legal justification of the shooters and on the other the ethical support of their actions. I get it, I too can separate the two ideas and come to different support or detraction. But here you are making a faulty legal plea to justify the ethical killing of this guy.

That's simply not true in anywhere I've lived. Just a trespass onto property is specifically excluded in Texas doctrine. It's also excluded in Georgia where this guy was. Feel free to find me states in which this is true. Even in florida, I have to break into your house for you to be allowed to shoot me. You can't shoot me for just walking onto your property:

There are two primary statutes in Florida outlining when the use of deadly force is justified so as to avoid criminal liability. Under Section 776.012, Florida Statutes (Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Law), a person is justified in using deadly force (and does not have a duty to retreat) if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony or to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another. Under Section 782.02, Florida Statutes, the use of deadly force is further justified when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which the person is located.

If the defendant is in his or her home or vehicle, then, under Section 776.013, Florida Statutes, the law will presume that the defendant had a reasonable fear of imminent death or bodily harm if the alleged victim unlawfully entered or remained or attempted to remove another person against their will. A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter another’s home or vehicle is furthermore presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.

The presumption of reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm does not apply if: (a) the person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in the home or vehicle, or (b) the person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used, or (c) the person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the home or vehicle to further an unlawful activity, or (d) the person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, who enters or attempts to enter the home or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer properly identified his or herself (or the person reasonably should have known that it was a police officer).

If a defendant was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked where he or she was allowed to be, then the defendant has no duty of retreat and has a right to use force, or even deadly force, if the defendant (under those circumstances) reasonably believed that his or her use of force was necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm. This is the key provision of Florida’s “Stand your Ground” law.

Also, it's a red herring anyways. Was Aubrey trespassing when he was killed? Can you show me the state that allows deadly force against trespassing after the person has left?
Has nothing to do with this case legality then.

 

[Filthy]

Also, how hard is it to walk with $2500 worth of fishing gear? tackle box, fish finder...what else could you sneak off with if you didn't have a car?

 

[ThatOneDude]

"The McMichaels told police that they had decided to arm themselves and pursue Arbery because they suspected him of committing burglaries in the Satilla Shores neighborhood. They also told police they had seen Arbery on earlier surveillance tapes and were concerned that he could be armed because they said they saw him on another occasion sticking “his hand down his pants."

Yes, and I believe that statement caused people to go file freedom of information act requests and we learned there are no previous breakins

 

[The Big Guy]

On the one hand you seem to be making a call for the legal justification of the shooters and on the other the ethical support of their actions. I get it, I too can separate the two ideas and come to different support or detraction. But here you are making a faulty legal plea to justify the ethical killing of this guy.

That's simply not true in anywhere I've lived. Just a trespass onto property is specifically excluded in Texas doctrine. It's also excluded in Georgia where this guy was. Feel free to find me states in which this is true. Even in florida, I have to break into your house for you to be allowed to shoot me. You can't shoot me for just walking onto your property:



Also, it's a red herring anyways. Was Aubrey trespassing when he was killed? Can you show me the state that allows deadly force against trespassing after the person has left?
Has nothing to do with this case legality then.

No but to be armed while confronting a suspected burglar is not uncommon. To attack the armed person confronting you is not common. To run away from the man calling police leads me to believe he had a guilty conscience so I feel he ran cause he was up to something.

They can't just legally shoot him but to confront him while armed isn't some crazy idea. He initiated the violence by cutting a 90 degree angle around that truck.

 

[The Big Guy]

Yes, and I believe that statement caused people to go file freedom of information act requests and we learned there are no previous breakins

That were reported. I know plenty of people who dont call the cops for that shit. My boss showed me two ring doorbell videos in the last month. One dude jumping out a car and trying to open my bosses sons car. And another dude with a hoodie on walking behind his house. Both of these are at night and in delray beach. All million dollar homes.

He didnt report either.

 

[The Big Guy]

I heard the same thing, that they recognized him from prior video when he ran past. But it also seems like that video doesn't exist any more.

but even if they did ID him from a previous burglary, I don't know if that counts as 'immediate first-hand knowledge' of a felony, if it was a felony from a couple weeks or months ago.

Im not suprised the videos haven't surfaced yet due to the "no justice,no peace" crowd giving death threats to nearly every person involved

 

[ThatOneDude]

Im not suprised the videos haven't surfaced yet due to the "no justice,no peace" crowd giving death threats to nearly every person involved

This is true and unfortunate. Certainly doesn't help their case.