This was supposed to be an answer to @nick diaz nut hugger in the thread about the jet. But it got so long, I decided to start a new thread.
And maybe my thinking is wrong on this, be free to criticise and give input.
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Maybe they thought it was SAMs before. Who knows. Surely they know their propaganda, no doubt. You gotta be careful from either side.
But if we want to talk about spinning shit, how about the picture our media paints about Russia as the constant aggressor?
As much as I don't like a lot of Russia's policies, internally and externally..., I see their foreign policy much more as reactionary.
Try to see yourself in their position:
They have the USA as enemy of their whole existence, who even treated Cuba like shit up until a while ago, the word communism alone makes some of your politicians cry out in panic and piss their pants. The USA has powerful allies as well, allies that are very close to Russia's borders, or directly at those. Russia is almost surrounded by nations that seem to be OK to go to war with them or support a war, with little convincing.
And not only that, the USA is renewing their nuclear weapons and military bases stationed in Europe. Very close to Russia as well. Why is that? Who do they want to fight? Who is the aggressor here? How can Russia not feel threatened?
They are/were in several treaties with the USA assuring no aggression towards each other and disarmament, none of which they ever broke.
The USA terminated one of those direct treaties (ABM Treaty), Russia did not do that. Can you imagine the response if Russia terminated a treaty? Would you feel threatened and cry foul? Hell yes you would. The saber-rattling from the USA would be deafening. Russia is a bully, but not the biggest one in the world. They know their place, and they are scared.
Plus, more or less out of the blue, the USA is trying to overthrow one of Russia's allies. Imagine if Russia tried that in Saudi Arabia. God damn the world would burn.
Which nation is constantly putting tremendous amounts of money into their military? Is it Russia?
And Russia sees the USA and their allies intervening in the world as they please, sometimes illicit, sometimes with lies they make up, these are facts, not propaganda. Of course they are frightened.
Did anybody punish the USA for their illegal attack on Gadaffi's troops? Was there any backlash? Any embargoes like what Russia got when they made their Crimea stuff? Let alone them tempering in East-Ukraine, but has the USA any right to cry foul over tempering?
Not saying that was OK by any means, in fact it was very much wrong and shitty. But it was reactionary too in a way. Ukraine got close to partner very close with the EU, maybe even joining them.
To Russia, that is dead scary, politically and militarily. They would literally be surrounded by potential enemies then, at least on that side of the border. They had clear interest in destabilizing Ukraine, and also - that is true, showed their muscles a bit, surely also to show the world that they will not just wait to be overthrown. And it was timely since, if you don't punish others for illegal military action, that is the time to do it.
Same as the issue regarding Russian jets and submarines in the Baltic etc. I can see why they would make reconnaissance, and also show the world that they are still around. It is reactionary, not aggressive imho. Like the rattlesnake that will rattle when it feels threatened.
Imagine how you would feel if Russia had a lot of military bases and nuclear weapons stationed in Mexico, the Caribbean and Canada, and is even renewing them. And even has these countries as allies ready to attack you. Then bail out of treaties with you, go around the world attack whomever they please and overthrow your allies. And all that while not giving a fuck about what you think and steadily arm themselves more and more.
And its a damn shame, there are so many similarities, it would be easy to get along. We fucking should be strong allies with the Russians and be very open to them. The world would be a better place. In Russia as well.
And maybe my thinking is wrong on this, be free to criticise and give input.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe they thought it was SAMs before. Who knows. Surely they know their propaganda, no doubt. You gotta be careful from either side.
But if we want to talk about spinning shit, how about the picture our media paints about Russia as the constant aggressor?
As much as I don't like a lot of Russia's policies, internally and externally..., I see their foreign policy much more as reactionary.
Try to see yourself in their position:
They have the USA as enemy of their whole existence, who even treated Cuba like shit up until a while ago, the word communism alone makes some of your politicians cry out in panic and piss their pants. The USA has powerful allies as well, allies that are very close to Russia's borders, or directly at those. Russia is almost surrounded by nations that seem to be OK to go to war with them or support a war, with little convincing.
And not only that, the USA is renewing their nuclear weapons and military bases stationed in Europe. Very close to Russia as well. Why is that? Who do they want to fight? Who is the aggressor here? How can Russia not feel threatened?
They are/were in several treaties with the USA assuring no aggression towards each other and disarmament, none of which they ever broke.
The USA terminated one of those direct treaties (ABM Treaty), Russia did not do that. Can you imagine the response if Russia terminated a treaty? Would you feel threatened and cry foul? Hell yes you would. The saber-rattling from the USA would be deafening. Russia is a bully, but not the biggest one in the world. They know their place, and they are scared.
Plus, more or less out of the blue, the USA is trying to overthrow one of Russia's allies. Imagine if Russia tried that in Saudi Arabia. God damn the world would burn.
Which nation is constantly putting tremendous amounts of money into their military? Is it Russia?
And Russia sees the USA and their allies intervening in the world as they please, sometimes illicit, sometimes with lies they make up, these are facts, not propaganda. Of course they are frightened.
Did anybody punish the USA for their illegal attack on Gadaffi's troops? Was there any backlash? Any embargoes like what Russia got when they made their Crimea stuff? Let alone them tempering in East-Ukraine, but has the USA any right to cry foul over tempering?
Not saying that was OK by any means, in fact it was very much wrong and shitty. But it was reactionary too in a way. Ukraine got close to partner very close with the EU, maybe even joining them.
To Russia, that is dead scary, politically and militarily. They would literally be surrounded by potential enemies then, at least on that side of the border. They had clear interest in destabilizing Ukraine, and also - that is true, showed their muscles a bit, surely also to show the world that they will not just wait to be overthrown. And it was timely since, if you don't punish others for illegal military action, that is the time to do it.
Same as the issue regarding Russian jets and submarines in the Baltic etc. I can see why they would make reconnaissance, and also show the world that they are still around. It is reactionary, not aggressive imho. Like the rattlesnake that will rattle when it feels threatened.
Imagine how you would feel if Russia had a lot of military bases and nuclear weapons stationed in Mexico, the Caribbean and Canada, and is even renewing them. And even has these countries as allies ready to attack you. Then bail out of treaties with you, go around the world attack whomever they please and overthrow your allies. And all that while not giving a fuck about what you think and steadily arm themselves more and more.
And its a damn shame, there are so many similarities, it would be easy to get along. We fucking should be strong allies with the Russians and be very open to them. The world would be a better place. In Russia as well.
