Robbie/Carlos: ANOTHER Who Won Thread!!!!!

[Haulport]

All this hair splitting is meaningless to me. A split decision imo = DRAW

If a fight is so close that the judges are split, the fans are split and everyone is up in arms regardless of who wins, then it WASN'T a decisive decision and it is, for all intents and purposes, a draw...

My 2 cents

 

[sparkuri]

I'd score a HUGE % of decisions out there as draws

 

[Haulport]

Totally. I don't mind that they call a winner but people treat split decision wins like they are legit wins and the winner goes off to bigger and better and the loser needs to start over. And I mean the fighters, manangers, orgs, officials, etc. Not just the fans. Let's get real people...

 

[Wild]

Totally. I don't mind that they call a winner but people treat split decision wins like they are legit wins and the winner goes off to bigger and better and the loser needs to start over. And I mean the fighters, manangers, orgs, officials, etc. Not just the fans. Let's get real people...

Condits stock actually went up after that fight. He doesn't have the belt, but he's right there in contention for another title shot w/ just 1 win...and hell, he may even get a rematch. I bet he's offered one.

 

[Haulport]

Condits stock actually went up after that fight. He doesn't have the belt, but he's right there in contention for another title shot w/ just 1 win...and hell, he may even get a rematch. I bet he's offered one.

That is mostly not the case. Look at what happened with Hendricks. He won a unanimous decision against Robbie, lost a split and then had to fight Matt Brown, won and now STILL has to fight Wonder Boy.

 

[Wild]

That is mostly not the case. Look at what happened with Hendricks. He won a unanimous decision against Robbie, lost a split and then had to fight Matt Brown, won and now STILL has to fight Wonder Boy.

I dont think Johny gets many favors from the UFC because of his issues w/ missing weight. Thoughts?

 

[Hong Kong Phooey]

Ive seen many thousands of fights. Very few were SO close for comfort. I would have called this a Drawport !

 

[Papi Chingon]

I dont think Johny gets many favors from the UFC because of his issues w/ missing weight. Thoughts?

He also stunk the joint up with his head between the legs strategy for 4 rounds. Nobody wants to see that shit.

 

[Joemacka]

That is mostly not the case. Look at what happened with Hendricks. He won a unanimous decision against Robbie, lost a split and then had to fight Matt Brown, won and now STILL has to fight Wonder Boy.

Hendricks is boring and cant even make weight thats why.

 

[RaginCajun]

Reminds me of when Shogun lost the decision to Machida, he also gained may fans and was thought of as the uncrowded champ. Condit may have to finish the fight if there is a rematch because of Robbie's style and because you never know what the judges are looking for.

 

[Ghost Bro]

Robbie won, he kept the belt. I thought Condit did more than enough to win.

For me, Nick Diaz had said it pretty well, when he talks about the Sherk fight post 183.


View: https://youtu.be/zKylVe2z0fg?t=4m41s

 

[Gibberish]

I'd give Lawler a 10-8 last round and call it a draw. Although I'm sure one of the three rounds for Condit could be scored 10-10 also.

And Joe Rogan again has a lot of answer for. He wasn't calling any of Robbie's counter punches. If you just listened to the commentary you'd think Condit was unloading these super heavy combinations all fight and Robbie wasn't giving anything back.

 

[LurkenLikaGherkin]

Agree with the basic idea that there should probably be more 10-10 rounds (or even 9-9 if some aesthetic input were to be added to the judges' choices of how to score), but FWIW judges often are instructed to avoid 10-10 rounds if at all possible. The commissions where I was hired to judge seem to want the crowds to go home happy, and crowds hate draws. I've never heard this said directly, but it's also true that controversy is actually good for the sport -- bad decisions are actually good for the sport because they piss people off and discussion proliferates when people are pissed off -- so maybe that is even in play on some level, who knows.

My own opinion, as a judge and martial artist is, Fuck tha crowd. The vast majority of the crowd at fights is clueless and delusional about it (if you could talk to them, their certainty that their wrong ideas about fighting and scoring are right would make you want to slap them stupid). But that is how judges where I judged were debriefed, and I think it is probably pretty universal.

 

[lookoutawhale]

I gave Condit Round 1 and 4. Lawler round 2 and 5. Round 3 nothing really happened i felt. So i scored it for no one.

I think there needs to be more 10-10 rounds where nothing really happens. Then have an overtime round where the guys just let it go knowing this is the 1 round that matters.

 

[DoTheKick]

I'd give Lawler a 10-8 last round and call it a draw. Although I'm sure one of the three rounds for Condit could be scored 10-10 also.

And Joe Rogan again has a lot of answer for. He wasn't calling any of Robbie's counter punches. If you just listened to the commentary you'd think Condit was unloading these super heavy combinations all fight and Robbie wasn't giving anything back.

If Lawler won the last round 10-8 (which I don't agree with ) then Condit definitely won round 4 10-8.

It was a dominant performance for Condit imho.

If Condit got his hand raised people would be getting called idiots saying they thought Lawler won.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[Joemacka]

If Lawler won the last round 10-8 (which I don't agree with ) then Condit definitely won round 4 10-8.

It was a dominant performance for Condit imho.

If Condit got his hand raised people would be getting called idiots saying they thought Lawler won.

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Agree there is no way round 5 was a 10-8 it was alot closer than people seem to think. Round 4 was the most dominant round of the whole fight hands down.

 

[Ted Williams' head]

I was pretty amazed by the large number of people who really don't know how to score a fight and are arguing about irrelevant statistics.

The facts are facts: Condit won 1 and 4, Robbie won 2 and 5. Most people are on the same page with that. Condit himself said he lost the 2nd round.

All people need to be talking about is the 3rd round. There's nothing wrong with thinking Condit won the fight, but if Condit deserved the fight it wasn't because he landed more strikes overall, or he had the most dominant round in round 4, or anything like that. Those stats don't dictate the winner of a fight. If Condit won, it's because he nicked the 3rd round, and he very well could have because it was close.

 

[DoTheKick]

Agree there is no way round 5 was a 10-8 it was alot closer than people seem to think. Round 4 was the most dominant round of the whole fight hands down.

Looking at the stats here and Condit still out struck Lawler but based on damage I'd say Lawler just edges it, not a chance was it 10-8.

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[Joemacka]

I was pretty amazed by the large number of people who really don't know how to score a fight and are arguing about irrelevant statistics.

The facts are facts: Condit won 1 and 4, Robbie won 2 and 5. Most people are on the same page with that. Condit himself said he lost the 2nd round.

All people need to be talking about is the 3rd round. There's nothing wrong with thinking Condit won the fight, but if Condit deserved the fight it wasn't because he landed more strikes overall, or he had the most dominant round in round 4, or anything like that. Those stats don't dictate the winner of a fight. If Condit won, it's because he nicked the 3rd round, and he very well could have because it was close.

I honestly just dont think Lawler was active enough to win the 3rd round. He had a 30second spell where he landed a nice elbow and a few punches but that was about it for 5minutes.

 

[Ted Williams' head]

I honestly just dont think Lawler was active enough to win the 3rd round. He had a 30second spell where he landed a nice elbow and a few punches but that was about it for 5minutes.

I played the round back on editing software so I could look at each exchange frame by frame to see what landed and what didn't, and to be honest there was very little to choose from. Both guys missed the majority of their strikes. Lawler missed on most of his haymaker lefts and Condit missed on most of his strikes.

And most of what did "connect" for both guys were not clean or effective shots: Condit threw some half hearted leg kicks with little power, Robbie landed a few shots that were partially blocked or he caught Condit with his bicep or forearm because he was too close.

The big moments were the flying knee by Condit, which was a nice shot but fortunately for Robbie he was coming up with the knee and took most of the steam off it. There was Robbie's elbow, and to be fair to Condit he landed his elbow at the same but Robbie's was a lot harder and caught Condit walking in, so he got the better of it. Then later on Robbie landed a flush right hook and caught Condit on the top of the head with an overhand left. Rogan gave credit to Condit for landing a few knees to the body in the clinch and a couple of body kicks that Robbie blocked with his arms. Not clean blows, but when you kick a guys arms you still do some damage.

So I have no problem with people thinking Condit won the 3rd round (and subsequently, the fight). I went with Robbie, but it was a close round. So I just wish people would say "I think Condit won because I gave him the 3rd" instead of going into strike stats and shit.

It all comes down to that 3rd round, which could have went either way, so regardless of what people think this was a razor thin, close fight.

 

[Greek777]

Robbie won the fight. I can definitely see the case for Carlos, and I thought he was gonna win right before the decision was announced. I was unsure about round 3, but I went back and watched immediately. Too close to call, and Robbie landed harder shots. Lots of Condit's stuff was thrown out there and didn't do anything. Robbie hurts every time he hits. I gave it to Rob.

I can easily see the argument both ways.

 

[dacofty]

I was pretty amazed by the large number of people who really don't know how to score a fight and are arguing about irrelevant statistics.

The facts are facts: Condit won 1 and 4, Robbie won 2 and 5. Most people are on the same page with that. Condit himself said he lost the 2nd round.

All people need to be talking about is the 3rd round. There's nothing wrong with thinking Condit won the fight, but if Condit deserved the fight it wasn't because he landed more strikes overall, or he had the most dominant round in round 4, or anything like that. Those stats don't dictate the winner of a fight. If Condit won, it's because he nicked the 3rd round, and he very well could have because it was close.

Condit won the 3rd round but not the fight... go figure with the Judges in vegas

 

[NHBStriker]

A little off topic, but since we're talking about close decisions involving Condit... I feel that Condit won against Diaz. A lot of people don't feel the same way, and at least some of them felt the way he fought Diaz showed him to be a coward. I have to believe most people who felt that way no longer feel that way after the Condit/Lawler fight.

 

[LurkenLikaGherkin]

Unless you have other angles than were on the broadcast, IMO (after watching shitty stream again), it's very difficult to know who won round 3 -- for reasons detailed in posts above:

- disproportionate time/volume of offense vs defense
- disproportionate intensity of strikes within offensive combinations and attacks

At crucial moments, the camera angle just sucks for gauging how cleanly and well Lawler's landing -- especially the 1st time he moves forward for a prolonged segment, after Condit's been dictating the distance and staying busy at the start of the round. Whether Condit's head moves or not isn't a good measure, as he's good at absorbing damage AND he is rolling with the punches. His back is to the camera at crucial moments when he's rolling and Lawler's punching, so that it's very tough (to me, not possible) to score accurately. That segment alone could dictate whether you score the round for Condit or Lawler, and unless you had a better camera angle than was on the feed I watched, it's basically not scoreable.

BTW, probably everybody knows this, but this issue is why there are three judges who are supposed to be triangulated around the ring so that they all have different vantage points. From each one, it may be more or less certain that one guy won the round. IMO the "camera flow" judges seat was bad for round 3, and round 3 seems to be the closest round, at least to me. It can be scored either way, depending on how you interpret parts of the fight that were (imo) too poorly presented, due to the live shot angles, to score dependably.

 

[LurkenLikaGherkin]

If you ever want to have an interesting experience of how vantage point completely fucks with your mind & perception, mic up yourself and a friend, over a cup of coffee, and edit three versions of that conversation so that you have one where your friend is loud and you are quieted (high vs low volume), one where both are as close as possible to equal volume, and one where you are loud and your friend is quieted.

"Certain news outlets" fuck with people's minds in this way every day, all day long (e.g. show host big head, favored guests big head, guests and disfavored guests tiny head, host's voice loud, guest's voice down in mix, etc. etc.).