The "Left" Has Lost Me

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M

member 1013

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This is going to turn into quite the tangential and disjointed FRAT I am sure, so you have all been warned. ;)

I was raised the son of Soviet immigrants who taught me to honor, respect and uphold the traditional ideals of liberalism; the ideals of equality, liberty, human rights and a healthy democracy. Most of my life, and probably even today I would have identified as a "liberal," as in a left of center person. I still support the core concepts of liberalism: freedom, equity and democracy. I will always. They have been good to me and mine.

But I have perceived a change in the rhetoric, actions and policies of those purporting to be "liberals." Maybe I am a fool and it was always so, but the dialogue and conversation have been hijacked by the fringe radicals of the movement. Akin to "far right" conservatism, and maybe in part fueled by it, those who yell the loudest and most nonsensically are consistently given the podium to spread their toxic ideology.

In particular, the almost militant need to enforce what many term "the P.C. culture" and to crush dissent not through conversation but by labeling anyone with a dissenting opinion as bigoted, racist or displaying some faux "phobia" you will never find in a legitimate medical or psychological text book. It has been stated before, by those with both greater intellect and relevant knowledge than I, but in their almost zealot like quest for "tolerance," they have bred a culture of intolerance and censorship.

This militant indoctrination begins, sadly, at many of our institutions of post secondary education. The liberal arts, as they are often referred to, have always been an insular, pseudo-scientific field full of back patting and intellectually incestuous mutual masturbation. (In full disclosure, I myself have a bachelor's degree in political "science.") Institutions and researches who do not blindly subscribe to the status quo and even dare to challenge it are derided as "right wing think tanks" and discredited. The Ivory Tower that many bemoan is in many ways a real thing, a self contained community that is convinced it's opinions are actually the answers every one has been craving.

In a somewhat ironic and surely unintentional turn of events, the culture of the "liberal" arts has come back to haunt many of the institutions and professionals who so strongly have advocated it. The ridiculous spectacle of students demanding safe spaces and harassing school officials that don't subscribe to their particular buzzwords does have a degree of schadenfreude to it. Unfortunately caught in the cross fire are those like the professor and his wife at Yale or the University President forced to apologize for saying "all lives matter" in support of a certain movement for black equality.

This has spread now to permeate almost every aspect of our society. We have now a class of people for whom being outraged is a way of life. Tina Fey recently refused to apologize to them anymore, and I couldn't agree more. Whether it is taking false umbrage at a joke or mob vigilante internet justice, there is no hiding from it. Politicians are scared to speak honestly about the biggest existential threats to Western Civilization because it is improper.

In many ways these liberals seek to undermine and even neuter our society and the ideals upon which it is based. As an example I would site the German Chancellor Angela Merkel. I would argue that she is in fact no fan of liberal democracy. This woman refuses to heed the will of her people in anyway. Furthermore, she constantly seeks to undermine and impose her will on the sovereign democracies of Western Europe through her hegemony of the European Union. A self confessed hater of "nationalism," she threw away a German flag a minister was trying to wave at a press conference. She looked disgusted. However she mistakes the fact that people identify as part of a nation state as the unconstrained nationalism of men like Adolf Hitler. She is disconnected both from the people whom she is supposed to represent and Europe as a whole.

Then you have people like the Mayor of Cologne, a woman who blamed the victims of the mass sexual assaults on NYE and advised women on a "code of conduct" to be out on the street with these new arrivals. This theme of victim blaming in regards to sexual assault victims has been growing. This is one of the most interesting things I have observed, the same far left liberals who rail against "rape culture" insisting that the victims are at fault and seemingly blindly defending a group that views their whole set of ideals as evil.

I am not the only one who is feeling disenfranchised from this strange disconnect form reality and true liberalism displayed by this new generation of liberal. They should be made aware of the fact that in their zealotry and fervor they drive away and alienate the majority of their sympathizers. Their often toxic rhetoric leaves a bad taste in any reasonable person's mouth, same as that of the far right.

Far right politics is anarchy, and far left ones totalitarianism.

So here I sit, proudly and firmly planted on the fence.


Moo.
 
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M

member 1013

Guest
Tried to keep it brief I hope it makes at least some sense. Probably just the ramblings of mad man though.
 

Disciplined Galt

Disciplina et Frugalis
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Jan 15, 2015
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100% agree and I'm a self-identified leftist. The social democracy in Sweden up until mid-80's when Olof Palme took over is pretty much my ideal government (ultimately against government though) Sweden was really good at Equality, Liberty and Fraternity now though... Not so much, last school I taught in was in Tensta which is nor fully ghettoized. Apparently you even have to wear kevlar when dealing weed nowadays :(
 
M

member 1013

Guest
100% agree and I'm a self-identified leftist. The social democracy in Sweden up until mid-80's when Olof Palme took over is pretty much my ideal government (ultimately against government though) Sweden was really good at Equality, Liberty and Fraternity now though... Not so much, last school I taught in was in Tensta which is nor fully ghettoized. Apparently you even have to wear kevlar when dealing weed nowadays :(
Thank you for validating my ramblings :)
 

SNIDELY WHIPLASH

DOOGOODER!!!!!!
Feb 16, 2015
1,643
2,186
The term 'PC' and 'race card' is a propaganda creation that is meant to get people off the hook for expressing their disgusting thoughts.

Meanwhile on the right, Mexico is sending rapists, insults are 'refreshing' because they are at least the truth, and now 'D-Money and Smoothie are impregnating white girls'.

Sorry, will never vote for the party that authentically hates me.
 
M

member 1013

Guest
The term 'PC' and 'race card' is a propaganda creation that is meant to get people off the hook for expressing their disgusting thoughts.

Meanwhile on the right, Mexico is sending rapists, insults are 'refreshing' because they are at least the truth, and now 'D-Money and Smoothie are impregnating white girls'.

Sorry, will never vote for the party that authentically hates me.
No, not at all. That first statement is what I'm talking about.

And this thread is not about how I am a republican now, I'm not even American.
 

megatherium

el rey del mambo
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
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You are clearly ancient if you are posting Elvis, tell us about the golden years of Liberalism please.
Those were heady days my friend. Students demanded Free Speech, not speech zones on campus. There were many things afoot that seem out of step today. Kids took to the street to end wars. The US media was the international Gold Standard for truth-telling. Dead bodies coming off of helicopters every night on the CBS evening news. Anti-war coverage! It was another world.
 

megatherium

el rey del mambo
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
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We might have the makings of a left wing populist club here. I've been interested in burning the feet of the elite for, well I'm sure you can imagine, a long time now. We might revisit that sometime.
 
M

member 1013

Guest
We might have the makings of a left wing populist club here. I've been interested in burning the feet of the elite for, well I'm sure you can imagine, a long time now. We might revisit that sometime.
Oh man I've always wanted to be part of a roving mob, if that helps.
 
1

1031

Guest
I honestly think we are witnessing something nearing and end game of a divide-and-conquer strategy by the elites. It's like people keep getting more and more emotional about things they should not be so emotional about. The ALMIGHTY VICTIM has become who people aspire to becoming. It's sickening.

When I was a child, I spend a good chunk of my time around adults, reason being was that there was just my mom to take care of us and we had no money. So, when she would visit with friends, I and my sister were expected to sit there and behave. When I was younger, adults weren't so fcuking stupid as they are now. People called out bullshit with a quickness and if someone was using their identity in place of an argument or sound reasoning, everyone would say so. Nowadays? You can't call a spade a spade without being painted with the same brush as extremely intolerant whackos.

My former best friend and I chatted a few months back on fb. I wanted to know his thoughts on the Syrian refugee "crisis" and of course shared mine. We used to be able to debate each other quite amiably but it seemed like any opinion other than "take them alllllll in" was somehow racist or bigoted in his mind. He would accept no amount of sane logical criticism of the liberal plan to take in as many as possible.
I don't ever remember him being that dense but I'm guessing that if you get exposed to the message that if you just accuse someone of being this or that, you "win."

Everyone is becoming an extremist in their opinions in one way or another i.e. we are becoming more and more divided. This is all thanks to politically correct speech, media conglomerates, affirmative action, not questioning the morality of our own governments.
 

SNIDELY WHIPLASH

DOOGOODER!!!!!!
Feb 16, 2015
1,643
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Everyone is becoming an extremist in their opinions in one way or another i.e. we are becoming more and more divided. This is all thanks to politically correct speech said:
Nobody cares about being politically correct, it's just a talking point. People keep spewing disgusting thoughts and somebody is still always there to say they are being stopped from doing it, yet literally every day we still hear something that is supposed to be off-limits. The media is another argument with no basis, somebody needs to detail EXACTLY what the media needs to do to their satisfaction because they aren't ever going to satisfy everyone. Affirmative Action? Who exactly benefits from this and why is such a tiny non-issue always the first thing debated about? I can't believe people still mention affirmative action, the 2 jobs it placed this week were likely for non-minority women.

I'll agree with you about Government, the 2 party system is created strictly for gridlock, not checks and balances, but that's mostly because everybody hates each other.

They come up with the same proposals different years and then pretend they never did if the other party decides to implement it.
 
M

member 1013

Guest
Nobody cares about being politically correct, it's just a talking point. People keep spewing disgusting thoughts and somebody is still always there to say they are being stopped from doing it, yet literally every day we still hear something that is supposed to be off-limits.
Again you oversimplify by only talking about radical far right arguments/politicians.
 
M

member 1013

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Also Caitlyn Jenner is a stunning and beautiful women. So brave.

 

SNIDELY WHIPLASH

DOOGOODER!!!!!!
Feb 16, 2015
1,643
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Again you oversimplify by only talking about radical far right arguments/politicians.
'Oversimplification' was the argument that was presented. Those bullet-points are strictly right-leaning hot button issues, so yes, a counterbalance to right-leaning talking points would be the logical opposite. I gave an answer to each of the points I felt were incorrect or exaggerated, not by the OP but by the current rhetoric we hear nowadays.
 
M

member 1013

Guest
'Oversimplification' was the argument that was presented. Those bullet-points are strictly right-leaning hot button issues, so yes, a counterbalance to right-leaning talking points would be the logical opposite.
You see, I am not a right wing guy at all. The thread is about how those points have traction with a lot of traditional sympathizers/voters of and for liberal parties. For example, I have never voted for a party other than the Liberal Party of Canada or The Green Party for a protest vote. You would find me to meet the actual definition of a liberal.

You misconstrue me and my "talking points." You are in fact part of the problem I am ranting against.

Thank you for being the living embodiment of my post.

Because it counters your dogmatic views doesn't make this a right wing post full of conservative talking points.
 

SNIDELY WHIPLASH

DOOGOODER!!!!!!
Feb 16, 2015
1,643
2,186
You see, I am not a right wing guy at all. The thread is about how those points have traction with a lot of traditional sympathizers/voters of and for liberal parties. For example, I have never voted for a party other than the Liberal Party of Canada or The Green Party for a protest vote. You would find me to meet the actual definition of a liberal.

You misconstrue me and my "talking points." You are in fact part of the problem I am ranting against.

Thank you for being the living embodiment of my post.

Because it counters your dogmatic views doesn't make this a right wing post full of conservative talking points.
I already answered your original post and moved on to another post by another poster, which you seem to have decided are also points you want to defend even though you didn't write them.

I think you are the living embodiment of your own problem. You seem unaware of how American politicians use hot-button issues and that leads directly to a clarification from some on the left. An issue is either the truth or it isn't, if you throw something out there and someone says it's incorrect or exaggerated you aren't being hounded by overly PC zealots, you're being asked to do more than propagandize.

I have no opinion on what you believe, what I know is that a war of propaganda is happening in America. Asking for truth is not a 'dogma'.
 
M

member 1013

Guest
I already answered your original post and moved on to another post by another poster, which you seem to have decided are also points you want to defend even though you didn't write them.

I think you are the living embodiment of your own problem. You seem unaware of how American politicians use hot-button issues and that leads directly to a clarification from some on the left. An issue is either the truth or it isn't, if you throw something out there and someone says it's incorrect or exaggerated you aren't being hounded by overly PC zealots, you're being asked to do more than propagandize.

I have no opinion on what you believe, what I know is that a war of propaganda is happening in America. Asking for truth is not a 'dogma'.
I am actually not too aware of what specifically American politicians are doing, I don't follow them closely (U.S. daily politics and elections) because I am painfully aware of how they have devolved hot button issues in to matters of partisanship. This post is about a general trend I have been observing in my home country and from having watched the E.U.experiment the last 20 years as an interested student of politics. This isn't about the U.S. presidential election or even U.S. politics in specific but a shift in the dialogue within the actual political parties and political/intellectual conversation I have been seeing in all of Western society. I was a card carrying member of liberal party of Canada for 20 years and left because of this. There is a reason I put the word left in quotations in the thread title.

I am not defending all of Blank's post, I found the end rather disjointed to be honest. I was in fact responding to the specific part of your post that I quoted. Nothing else.

You will also see that the OP is equally dismissive of the far right.

And your "answer" to my post was wildly off topic (no where did I offer ridiculous far right ideologues as the solution or say their rhetoric was better) and America specific.

I don't really have any problems, my life is great over all.
 

Leigh

Engineer
Pro Fighter
Jan 26, 2015
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Liberalism is fine as long as it is tethered with libertariansim. In short, it is great to help those less fortunate as long as you consider the freedoms of others. Unfortunately, leftist extremists are often facist and want to impose their skewed sense of morality on everyone else (yes Q @Qat, I used that word again. Not at you, or even your posts though).