The "Left" Has Lost Me

[member 1013]

I like the open borders and basically the opportunities it gives for EU-citizens. For travel as well. Of course it changes things though in case of immigration issues and so forth.
If Americans complain about people from the south, we can do so too. A lot of young Spaniards, Italians etc. come here for economic reasons. And they could be seen as North-African-looking too! Haha.
I'm not bothered by it though.
About everything else and the bureaucracy.. I somewhat agree. Its a behemoth that in its current form is pretty much shit. But its natural that you have to give some things up to join a bigger cause, its still in transition, is it failed yet? Hmm. We will see.

How should it be in your eyes?

Less overreaching power basically. It boils down to what you want from it/how you view it I guess. Is it a partnership of countries on an economic level or a country like the U.K. and the U.S.? I would like to think the former. Are the member states now subject to a new sovereign? When that sovereign is controlled by one or two powerful groups and the rest are left to deal, where does it draw it's legitimacy from? Also Germans that think they should be allowed to tell all of Europe what to do need to be aware of how badly one ethnic group dominating the state has gone in other countries, the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda as two examples. Also they lost their chance to do that, twice.

 

[Qat]

Less overreaching power basically. It boils down to what you want from it/how you view it I guess. Is it a partnership of countries on an economic level or a country like the U.K. and the U.S.? I would like to think the former. Are the member states now subject to a new sovereign? When that sovereign is controlled by one or two powerful groups and the rest are left to deal, where does it draw it's legitimacy from? Also Germans that think they should be allowed to tell all of Europe what to do need to be aware of how badly one ethnic group dominating the state has gone in other countries, the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda as two examples. Also they lost their chance to do that, twice.

Its something in between, mainly economical, but goes much further into many things that economy touches. The legitimacy comes from the contracts that everyone signed. It is a limited sovereign in some issues. But if you want to leave the EU, you can.

Look at the distribution of votes in the council:

They made sure we don't have the most alone, even though we should if it was fairly distributed.
Do you think it is not fair to distribute it by size? Should a small country have the same power a large one has? Should size of population not be the biggest factor? And even with that, small countries actually are preferentially treated in this. Its a degressive proportionality.
We are not as dominant as you think.

Nobody is happy about everything. I think the main issue is that as a citizen you feel disconnected from what is happening there. Stuff like the Bologna-process was horrible for us for example. Nobody wanted it.
So yeah, the disconnect is the largest issue I think. A referendum or two would help for big issues like that.

 

[member 1013]

Its something in between, but mainly economical, but goes much further into many things that economy touches. The legitimacy comes from the contracts that everyone signed. It is a limited sovereign in some issues. But if you want to leave the EU, you can.

The concept of a limited sovereign is in itself paradoxical, the sovereign has absolute power of it's territories. That is why I label the E.U. a political experiment. The only thing similar to it in theory I can think of is the now defunct USSR, and what happened there was the biggest cog ended up turning the other wheels too (although this was intentional from inception).

Look at the distribution of votes in the council:

They made sure we don't have the most alone, even though we should if it was fairly distributed.
Do you think it is not fair to distribute it by size? Should a small country have the same power a large one has? Should size of population not be the biggest factor? And even with that, small countries actually are preferentially treated in this. Its a degressive proportionality.
We are not as dominant as you think.

Never said that all countries should have fully equal representation, just fully equal standing and the ability to stand up for their national interests more. Just my opinion, I'm not saying I'm right. I guess we will see how it continues to develop. The fascinating thing about the E.U. is it is constantly evolving.

 

[Disciplined Galt]

For me this is very simple. You don't want a give most sons sovereign status. You can suck my cock. Muxh easier to teel with a [ep[;em than with a gub,mint. Don't ex[ect much frp, nothoing.

 

[Disciplined Galt]

This one song goes up to ze transparent member with the fucked up neck


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyP796l21ks

 

[SNIDELY WHIPLASH]

I fell asleep on this thread last night and expected a rash of name-calling by the morning as per the typical forums.

I continue to be impressed that we can discuss the issues fairly passionatley and rarely does it get out of hand.

Winners all of you. Even the right wingers

 

[member 1013]

I fell asleep on this thread last night and expected a rash of name-calling by the morning as per the typical forums.

I continue to be impressed that we can discuss the issues fairly passionatley and rarely does it get out of hand.

Winners all of you. Even the right wingers

You're a stupid face!!!!!!!!!

sorry

 

[Disciplined Galt]

I think that black dude has me on ignore.

 

[Qat]

That is why I label the E.U. a political experiment.

The fascinating thing about the E.U. is it is constantly evolving.

Agree and yes.

 

[member 1013]

Agree and yes.

Again thanks for your posts, I don't talk to many Europeans since I told Siemens to go shove it up their bum bum. It is good to get perspectives from the people actually living in the system. I'm just a distant observer and armchair strategist.

 

[Qat]

Again thanks for your posts, I don't talk to many Europeans since I told Siemens to go shove it up their bum bum. It is good to get perspectives from the people actually living in the system. I'm just a distant observer and armchair strategist.

I know about your chair.

 

[member 1013]

I know about your chair.

Ahh, if only.

No midichlorians, have I.

 

[Sweets]

Everyone is becoming an extremist in their opinions in one way or another i.e. we are becoming more and more divided. This is all thanks to politically correct speech, media conglomerates, affirmative action, not questioning the morality of our own governments.

I honestly think the internet is part of the problem, it has a tendency to lead people down the rabbit hole of their imagination. Hanging out in online echo chambers has a radicalising effect, naturally enough.

 

[member 1013]

I honestly think the internet is part of the problem, it has a tendency to lead people down the rabbit hole of their imagination. Hanging out in online echo chambers has a radicalising effect, naturally enough.

Case study: mixedmartialarts.com off topic.

 

[Sweets]

Case study: mixedmartialarts.com off topic.

Boom, perfect example. Forums are a beast for people watching.

 

[member 1013]

Boom, perfect example. Forums are a beast for people watching.

MY EXAMPLES ARE ALWAYS PERFECT

sorry, get excited about my examples man