I dont care about PEDs

[megatherium]

I dislike the practice of weight cutting.

 

[dacofty]

I agree, I think that the overall % in the sport of MMA is lower, but the % of users in the UFC is somewhat high. I have no way of knowing this, but its just a gut feeling.
I don't think the UFC would be willing to spend this much money if it was just a small amount, i think in the end they pretty much have an idea on who is and who isnt. Now whether they are really gonna spend it and do something about it is the most important factor. Are they willing to lose a few Champs or quite a few Brazilian fighters in the process? Time will tell

 

[lookoutawhale]

I think all that artificial power is going to get someone killed in the octagon one day.

I dont think the human skull was made to take an impact of unnatural levels.

Not to mention im guessing people will probably start dying on weigh in days from diuretic overuse. When they try to lose way too much weight than they can handle coupled with all the muscle they put on from roiding.

A lot of the old fighters will start dying off like the WWE guys. People that never wake up in their hotel room before fight nights because they overdosed on the roids trying to get that edge.

 

[Morpheushasleftthebuilding]

I think all that artificial power is going to get someone killed in the octagon one day.

I dont think the human skull was made to take an impact of unnatural levels.

Not to mention im guessing people will probably start dying on weigh in days from diuretic overuse. When they try to lose way too much weight than they can handle coupled with all the muscle they put on from roiding.

A lot of the old fighters will start dying off like the WWE guys. People that never wake up in their hotel room before fight nights because they overdosed on the roids trying to get that edge.

i think EPO is more of a killer, many cyclist have died because of it.

 

[ChaosOverkill]

I think all that artificial power is going to get someone killed in the octagon one day.

I dont think the human skull was made to take an impact of unnatural levels.

Not to mention im guessing people will probably start dying on weigh in days from diuretic overuse. When they try to lose way too much weight than they can handle coupled with all the muscle they put on from roiding.

A lot of the old fighters will start dying off like the WWE guys. People that never wake up in their hotel room before fight nights because they overdosed on the roids trying to get that edge.

My only question to that is: why wasn't death like this rampant during pride then? Is this an American culture + PED's reality then? Also the anabolics from the 80's early 90's are compounds that people can directly link to the damage and the technology for determining damage has evolved, also those guys in the WWE were all over the recreational drug spectrum and on the road being driven like cattle in their work schedule. Is it the same scenario now in terms of the class of compounds or methods being used? EPO kills for a rudimentary medical reason, you blood dope incorrectly or hit a threshold you die, anabolics vary and have a "This is preferred to x because it does not threaten the kidneys or do x to you" indications where you can read about them.

There have been deaths in football, but they are scattered across several issues not narrowed down to PED use.

 

[Zeph]

i think EPO is more of a killer, many cyclist have died because of it.

Yeah, it lowers the body's heartbeat, which on an endurance athlete is already super low. Then when they would go to sleep, which again naturally lowers the body's heartbeat, it would drop too low and they would never wake up.

 

[Morpheushasleftthebuilding]

Yeah, it lowers the body's heartbeat, which on an endurance athlete is already super low. Then when they would go to sleep, which again naturally lowers the body's heartbeat, it would drop too low and they would never wake up.

not really, it thickens your blood to corn syrup, so the heart needs to work very hard to get your blood around your body. its like a waterpump which needs to pump mud instead of water, when it was not designed to pump mud.
if you go to sleep and the heart rate lowers, the heart cannot make it to the next beat because of your blood being to thick which trigger a heartattack.
the second is the long use of EPO will drop your ability to make new red blood cells, so you bassically get a fysical addiction to epo, like TRT, you have to take it for the rest of your life.
the thirth is EPO works at his best while taking iron supps, take to long iron sups and you get liver poisoning.

 

[La Paix]

I think all that artificial power is going to get someone killed in the octagon one day.

I dont think the human skull was made to take an impact of unnatural levels.

Not to mention im guessing people will probably start dying on weigh in days from diuretic overuse. When they try to lose way too much weight than they can handle coupled with all the muscle they put on from roiding.

A lot of the old fighters will start dying off like the WWE guys. People that never wake up in their hotel room before fight nights because they overdosed on the roids trying to get that edge.

Fuck I never even though of weight cutting aids just strength and recovery.

 

[lookoutawhale]

My only question to that is: why wasn't death like this rampant during pride then? Is this an American culture + PED's reality then? Also the anabolics from the 80's early 90's are compounds that people can directly link to the damage and the technology for determining damage has evolved, also those guys in the WWE were all over the recreational drug spectrum and on the road being driven like cattle in their work schedule. Is it the same scenario now in terms of the class of compounds or methods being used? EPO kills for a rudimentary medical reason, you blood dope incorrectly or hit a threshold you die, anabolics vary and have a "This is preferred to x because it does not threaten the kidneys or do x to you" indications where you can read about them.

There have been deaths in football, but they are scattered across several issues not narrowed down to PED use.

There wasn't enough time for them to die. I dont think steroids kill people right away. Through time it breaks down the body like many of the WWE stars that were on all sorts of drugs to get an advantage. Unlike Pride, I dont believe the UFC should have soccer kicks either. A powerful kick to a stationary head on the ground can do so major damage to the brain. So even though no one died of that either in Pride I dont feel that we should wait for death to make a preventative measure.

If they want to make a new MMA organization that is full of roids i wouldnt care. As long as everyone know that the other person is roiding it up. They can take the risk of getting killed there with unnatural strength but I think there needs to be an organization that is also drug free so people arent forced into taking steroids to keep up with the jones's

but also i believe the penalty of taking steroids should be super harsh. Where you dont just lose a percentage of your last bout. You lose all the money you ever made in the UFC and then get sued for more. Because at the moment its a slap on the wrist for taking steroids.

 

[Zeph]

not really, it thickens your blood to corn syrup, so the heart needs to work very hard to get your blood around your body. its like a waterpump which needs to pump mud instead of water, when it was not designed to pump mud.
if you go to sleep and the heart rate lowers, the heart cannot make it to the next beat because of your blood being to thick which trigger a heartattack.
the second is the long use of EPO will drop your ability to make new red blood cells, so you bassically get a fysical addiction to epo, like TRT, you have to take it for the rest of your life.
the thirth is EPO works at his best while taking iron supps, take to long iron sups and you get liver poisoning.

I knew it was something like that. Thanks.

 

[ChaosOverkill]

There wasn't enough time for them to die. I dont think steroids kill people right away. Through time it breaks down the body like many of the WWE stars that were on all sorts of drugs to get an advantage. Unlike Pride, I dont believe the UFC should have soccer kicks either. A powerful kick to a stationary head on the ground can do so major damage to the brain. So even though no one died of that either in Pride I dont feel that we should wait for death to make a preventative measure.

If they want to make a new MMA organization that is full of roids i wouldnt care. As long as everyone know that the other person is roiding it up. They can take the risk of getting killed there with unnatural strength but I think there needs to be an organization that is also drug free so people arent forced into taking steroids to keep up with the jones's

but also i believe the penalty of taking steroids should be super harsh. Where you dont just lose a percentage of your last bout. You lose all the money you ever made in the UFC and then get sued for more. Because at the moment its a slap on the wrist for taking steroids.

Hey I'm not opposed to the logic, but short of making it more clear to more athletes the health risks incurred today result in a bigger problem than they conceptualize later, be it PED's, Concussions etc. I think the inevitable *CAN* MMA clean itself up. Land mines through a half-assed system is just going to murder the sport.

It's all or nothing for me, some testing, and with the nature of MMA with repeat camps during the year it has to be the most comprehensive system in all of sports, is worse than none to me. The effect on kids is important but if the effect of random land mines in positive tests decimates the sport, the point becomes moot. Selfishly as a consumer I have to make a choice in that kind of situation.

Would I prefer they benefit everyone somehow and create a trickle down that doesn't make young athletes feel they need to do it to keep up? Yes, of course, but if the people involved can't achieve more than creating landmines and gaps with places that do and places that don't, I don't think the sport will sustain any momentum or star power long term and effectively keep reducing it's appeal with TV networks.

Bellator or anyone using Reserve Casinos need to be somehow brought into this discussion as well. They are the international waters of venues within the United States/ Canada and give them the ability to talk one way and act another.

For all of this I see this monumental problem that will keep adapting and might not be able to be tackled and you may just end up with a two tiered system eventually of failures for the "Non-needle movers" and coverups for the stars who fail.

 

[La Paix]

Hey I'm not opposed to the logic, but short of making it more clear to more athletes the health risks incurred today result in a bigger problem than they conceptualize later, be it PED's, Concussions etc. I think the inevitable *CAN* MMA clean itself up. Land mines through a half-assed system is just going to murder the sport.

It's all or nothing for me, some testing, and with the nature of MMA with repeat camps during the year it has to be the most comprehensive system in all of sports, is worse than none to me. The effect on kids is important but if the effect of random land mines in positive tests decimates the sport, the point becomes moot. Selfishly as a consumer I have to make a choice in that kind of situation.

Would I prefer they benefit everyone somehow and create a trickle down that doesn't make young athletes feel they need to do it to keep up? Yes, of course, but if the people involved can't achieve more than creating landmines and gaps with places that do and places that don't, I don't think the sport will sustain any momentum or star power long term and effectively keep reducing it's appeal with TV networks.

Bellator or anyone using Reserve Casinos need to be somehow brought into this discussion as well. They are the international waters of venues within the United States/ Canada and give them the ability to talk one way and act another.

For all of this I see this monumental problem that will keep adapting and might not be able to be tackled and you may just end up with a two tiered system eventually of failures for the "Non-needle movers" and coverups for the stars who fail.

Great post Chaos.

 

[SNIDELY WHIPLASH]

I dont care about PEDs

How do you get around?!?!?!?!!??!!?

 

[lookoutawhale]

Hey I'm not opposed to the logic, but short of making it more clear to more athletes the health risks incurred today result in a bigger problem than they conceptualize later, be it PED's, Concussions etc. I think the inevitable *CAN* MMA clean itself up. Land mines through a half-assed system is just going to murder the sport.

It's all or nothing for me, some testing, and with the nature of MMA with repeat camps during the year it has to be the most comprehensive system in all of sports, is worse than none to me. The effect on kids is important but if the effect of random land mines in positive tests decimates the sport, the point becomes moot. Selfishly as a consumer I have to make a choice in that kind of situation.

Would I prefer they benefit everyone somehow and create a trickle down that doesn't make young athletes feel they need to do it to keep up? Yes, of course, but if the people involved can't achieve more than creating landmines and gaps with places that do and places that don't, I don't think the sport will sustain any momentum or star power long term and effectively keep reducing it's appeal with TV networks.

Bellator or anyone using Reserve Casinos need to be somehow brought into this discussion as well. They are the international waters of venues within the United States/ Canada and give them the ability to talk one way and act another.

For all of this I see this monumental problem that will keep adapting and might not be able to be tackled and you may just end up with a two tiered system eventually of failures for the "Non-needle movers" and coverups for the stars who fail.

I don't know if guys in the fight industry really care about long term health damage heh. If they are willing to get in there and bang with the possible brain trauma/damage then i think they are willing to not care if steroids are really that bad in the long term as long as they can be successful in the short term.

I understand your perspective on this though with more stringent testing needed. I dont know if it can be achieved though. Behind mma, there seems to be a different fight between chemists. Some that are trying to make sure the drugs they create are undetectable in tests while other scientists are trying to create tests to catch these new anabolics. I remember reading this piece on an Olympics testing facility where a guy decided to test older blood they had stored from the 1980's with recent testing methodology. And the results were grim. So many of the athletes that were revered for their athletic prowess back in the day were actually on drugs but the detecting techniques weren't as modern as they are now. It seems the testers seems to be a step behind. Once they are caught the chemists then seem to change the compound to evade detection again. I remember the guy exclaiming that so many olympics athletes from the past should have their medals taken away but it consisted of so many people that he just let sleeping dogs lie.

I feel that some testing is better than nothing and that they have to get better and better. Im not sure if they can really catch all the people but even a few can create a scare and create some ripple effect. I think the punishment on PEDs need to be much stronger though as i mentioned before. Its the only way I think you can strike fear into them. That even 5 years down the line if they catch you cheating with modern methods that you can have your prize money taken back. At the moment they only lose a small percentage of their purse.

 

[ChaosOverkill]

I don't know if guys in the fight industry really care about long term health damage heh. If they are willing to get in there and bang with the possible brain trauma/damage then i think they are willing to not care if steroids are really that bad in the long term as long as they can be successful in the short term.

I understand your perspective on this though with more stringent testing needed. I dont know if it can be achieved though. Behind mma, there seems to be a different fight between chemists. Some that are trying to make sure the drugs they create are undetectable in tests while other scientists are trying to create tests to catch these new anabolics. I remember reading this piece on an Olympics testing facility where a guy decided to test older blood they had stored from the 1980's with recent testing methodology. And the results were grim. So many of the athletes that were revered for their athletic prowess back in the day were actually on drugs but the detecting techniques weren't as modern as they are now. It seems the testers seems to be a step behind. Once they are caught the chemists then seem to change the compound to evade detection again. I remember the guy exclaiming that so many olympics athletes from the past should have their medals taken away but it consisted of so many people that he just let sleeping dogs lie.

I feel that some testing is better than nothing and that they have to get better and better. Im not sure if they can really catch all the people but even a few can create a scare and create some ripple effect. I think the punishment on PEDs need to be much stronger though as i mentioned before. Its the only way I think you can strike fear into them. That even 5 years down the line if they catch you cheating with modern methods that you can have your prize money taken back. At the moment they only lose a small percentage of their purse.

I don't expect them to catch everyone, that's impossible, but they have to cover ALL top 5 contender fights and ALL title fights. Taking fights to Texas is saying "We think you are idiots who will buy anything we shovel, we're 'serious', but not serious enough to tell one of the commissions who enable PED abuse that they can't have any fights until they get with the program". Dana fawns over Texas in one hand and talks PED test in another and not a single reporter has asked him about the atrocious conflict and hypocrisy that presents. I simply don't believe they have any serious PED policy until they refuse to take fights where they can have a two tiered system. Otherwise, if you're gonna have one then fine, but it had better cover your belts and top 5 or I'm not interested in rolling my eyes and watching the belts have no legitimacy, if the problem is as widespread as claimed.

That right there indicates that they aren't serious whatsoever, and that they will still attempt to cover up tests and delay effect if they are willing to deal with head shaking obvious corrupt commissions that will provide them with holes. You can't be serious about PED abuse AND go to Texas, period. Until they fix that, I prefer nothing to the shitshow the UFC is attempted to pawn off. I can't commit longterm interest to belts that get stripped or coverups around them, its worse than LNP champs to me.

 

[lookoutawhale]

^ yeah i hear you on that Chaos. They seem to put profits before ethics sometimes.

 

[ChaosOverkill]

Yep, and the fundamental difference between a UFC/MLB/NFL and the olympics, is amateur sport level that, even with the profits the IOC generates, demands a level playing field for the amateur athletics and country vs country bragging rights. Also there isn't one sport or result or set of results that the Olympics rely on, they have become what the UFC wants, a brand that drives itself, where as the UFC is reliant on belts and starpower despite it's protests to the opposit that their brand is enough or ever has been. The olympics has stakes that mean more to people in general than a pure for profit professional enterprise does, not to mention the centralized format making it easier to maintain and operate.

They can get serious about PED in the Olympics in a way that leagues and private enterprise sees as deterimental in the end if their use number is high enough, so they hire an expert to give them an opinion on public perception and PR about this and determine the minimum they have to do at each point to cover themselves and keep the wool over people that it's not a problem or going to suck the life out of the belts.

Call me cynical, I just don't believe anything they do right now besides short-term ass covering.

 

[Zeph]

I don't know if guys in the fight industry really care about long term health damage heh. If they are willing to get in there and bang with the possible brain trauma/damage then i think they are willing to not care if steroids are really that bad in the long term as long as they can be successful in the short term.

I understand your perspective on this though with more stringent testing needed. I dont know if it can be achieved though. Behind mma, there seems to be a different fight between chemists. Some that are trying to make sure the drugs they create are undetectable in tests while other scientists are trying to create tests to catch these new anabolics. I remember reading this piece on an Olympics testing facility where a guy decided to test older blood they had stored from the 1980's with recent testing methodology. And the results were grim. So many of the athletes that were revered for their athletic prowess back in the day were actually on drugs but the detecting techniques weren't as modern as they are now. It seems the testers seems to be a step behind. Once they are caught the chemists then seem to change the compound to evade detection again. I remember the guy exclaiming that so many olympics athletes from the past should have their medals taken away but it consisted of so many people that he just let sleeping dogs lie.

I feel that some testing is better than nothing and that they have to get better and better. Im not sure if they can really catch all the people but even a few can create a scare and create some ripple effect. I think the punishment on PEDs need to be much stronger though as i mentioned before. Its the only way I think you can strike fear into them. That even 5 years down the line if they catch you cheating with modern methods that you can have your prize money taken back. At the moment they only lose a small percentage of their purse.

The IOC keep samples for 8 years now and can test up to that limit in an effort to catch people with newer techniques. They are waiting to run tests on many samples to see if they can catch them from the Beijing and London Olympics.