VID I am an Islamist and I am a Feminist
- Thread starter Nemo?
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Read what again? I absolutely do not believe that IQ scores accurately reflect someone's ability to be successful.@Leigh -" And I don't agree that IQ scores accurately reflect someone's ability to be successful."
Yes they do mate, read again please. Major times.
I have given you personal anecdotes regarding my ex wife and my brother, both of whom score higher than me but are much less happy. My brother in particular is exceptionally gifted regarding mathematics. He crushes IQ tests and went to the best university in the country for his brand of engineering, yet his personal life is a mess and he lives on welfare.
There is probably some correlation between IQ test scores and success as intelligent people are likely to do well at both but correlation =/= causation.
You'll find that outside sports and entertainment and of course those who inherit wealth that successful people score well on IQ tests when motivated. The variance of scores that one individual achieves over a number of tests depending on their motivation, tiredness, focus etc will vary greatly. In year 9 (I think your form 3?) I was getting in a heap of shit in school so they sent me to the guidance counselor who gave me a whole bunch of tests including an IQ tests (cant remember which probably WISC). They made me take them in this little in school suspension room after making me write lines all fucking day, I scored very low, border line retard level cause I couldnt give a fuck and was bored out of my mind.
Fast forward a number of years and I was taking break from Uni and got done for a high range DUI, as part of my pre sentencing report I elected to get my own pych report which again required me to take an IQ test at my solicitor's suggestion and I scored in the 110 - 120 band which IIRC is classed as "Higher than average" (obvious motivation here), then took another one at a corporate junket where we had to health screening and what not as part of a leadership evaluation and I scored 100 on the dot which is average cause again I didnt give a fuck and also had consumed a shit load of drugs and alcohol and have fried my brain since Uni and am currently semi retarded at best lol
His conscientiousness quotient is probably the issue here and probably some behavioral issues, its not like his intellect has caused his (hopefully temporary) downfall
Agreed its not the sole causation on but its a hell of an enabler, your a mech engineer like my old man right? how many innovators in your field do you think have a below average intellect?
You're muddled up. You seem to think that because successful people score high on IQ tests, that means a high IQ score equates with success. That's logically incorrect.
A leading to B doesn't mean B leads to A.
Humans walk on two legs. Walking on two legs doesn't make an animal human.
You are correct about my brother. IQ test scores do not determine success.
Thats not what I am saying, I totally agree that a high IQ doesnt nec lead to success Ive seen this many times in my travels
Im saying if group A has a higher level of intellect than group B then group A would be better suited to vocations that require a more rigorous level of analytical thinking for example and would be more successful at them.
Hows this for a real world example, just up the road from my oldies place is Australia's most prestigious selective school it takes in the best of the best of primary school graduates haha, in my day the smartest kids went there, kids that didnt really study much but were simply gifted would be selected and after graduation they went on to be leaders in R&D, medicine and to a lesser degree Law, now with a huge influx of migrants from NE asia who put their kids through cram schools since the age of 7-8 5 hours a night just doing selective school entrance type tests that same school is filled with these kids who are good at taking the tests but arent our brightest.
There was a huge uproar recently about how the graduates of this school no longer achieve a high level of success relative to what the graduates achieved 20-30 years ago because they are not the most intelligent just the hardest worked. NOTE - Im not saying that people from these cultures arent intelligent they score the highest on earth, just that the dopey ones make it into selective schools by being pushed by the tiger mothers and dont succeed later in life.
Maybe this cements what Im trying to say
"Terman's Study of Gifted Children
Starting in the early 1920s, psychologist Lewis Terman began to investigate the idea that genius-level IQ was associated with social and personal maladjustment. He selected approximately 1500 children from California between the ages of 8 and 12 who had an IQ of at least 140, the minimum required to be considered a genius. The average IQ score of the group of participants was 150, and 80 of these children had scores above 170.
Over the next few years, Terman continued to track these children to see how high intelligence might impact the course of their lives.
What Terman discovered was that these kids tended to be both socially and physically well-adjusted. These high IQ kids were not only academically successful; they also tended to be healthier, taller, stronger, and less accident-prone than same-aged kids with lower IQs.
After Terman's death in 1956, several other psychologists carried on the original research and followed the original subjects. Known as the Terman Study of the Gifted, the study continues to this day and is the longest-running longitudinal study in the history.
Psychologists continue to track the surviving original participants, some of whom have gone on to achieve great success in life. Some of these individuals include famed educational psychologist Lee Chronbach, I Love Lucy writer Jess Oppenheimer, child psychologist Robert Sears, scientist Ancel Keys, and many others who became faculty members at colleges and universities.
As of the year 2003, there were 200 original participants still living. The study is expected to continue until the last member of the group dies or withdraws.
So how did the majority of Terman's subjects fare in life?
- When they were assessed in 1955 when the average yearly income was $5,000, the average income level for Terman's subjects was an impressive $33,000.
- Two-thirds had earned college degrees and a large number of the participants had gone on to earn graduate and professional degrees.
- Many members of the group became doctors, lawyers, business executives, professors, and scientists.
What could explain this disparity? If IQ predicts success, why did these individuals with similar intelligence scores fare so differently in life?
Terman had noted that as children the individuals in group A tended to exhibit "prudence and forethought, will power, perseverance, and the desire to excel." Later as adults, those from group A tended to rate higher than those from group C on three key traits: goal-orientation, self-confidence, and perseverance.
This suggests that while IQ can play a role in life success, personality traits are also important factors in determining outcomes."
Does Having a High IQ Lead to Success in Life?
Now you're changing your stance and agreeing with me. You previously said intelligence leads to success and that IQ is an accurate indicator of intelligence.
Now you are saying that IQ alone isn't enough.
As I said, intelligence includes factors other than those determined by IQ test scores.
So back to the original point, if we agree that:
1) IQ is not definitive in determining success
2) IQ test results can be influenced by external factors
Then we shouldn't use it to judge that someone (in this case, females) shouldn't strive for success in any area.
Heck, you added 40 IQ points just by motivating yourself.
See above I said that from the outset, I have even mentioned elswhere that males being more cerebral in nature lends to their greater rates of unassisted successI can pull up the data but IIRC the correlation between a higher than average IQ and a higher than average income (just one measure of performance) is something like 0.6, 0.00 being none and 0.10 being a perfect correlation for starters but I wont go on since I dnt know where you stand here.
And of course its not, I didnt think Id need to say otherwise, a genius heroin junkie isnt successful but a person of low intellect is going to find it very hard to be in the top percentile in most professions. Blue collar included, those guys who start out as brickies labourers and end up running their own construction companies are generally average or higher in intellect. The drop kicks who spend their meager wages at the pub tend to be the dumb asses
Like what? do you know of any method/s currently available that can measure intellect better than a proper IQ test? (not online BS)
1) No just a massive enabler as is time, effort, discipline and a whole lotta luck
2) Yes but a everyone has their capacities, Kim Kardashian aint gonna out IQ Stephen Hawkins anytime soon.
Agreed
Gonna sound like a douche but not everyone can do that, if you asked me to do it again today I reckon Id struggle even if motivated. I cant digest large amounts of information, organise it in my mind and then explain it like I could when I was in Uni, I cant lie (create) as quickly and as well anymore either
Do you agree that males and females have evolved along slightly different evolutionary paths? In most cultures do you agree that the majority of our time on earth as a species males went out to hunt, built shelters and waged war while women picked berries and raised our offspring (the most important job of all)?
I cant make you keep arguing with me as much as I wish I could, its been fun though.