Daniel Cormier says that right now Jon Jones is 'primed to get beat'

[Robbie Hart]

You're better than to be playing to angry card Throbbie (I think)... The rest of your post is accurate but it also applies to the majority of Jon's fights. I see that as Jon being that good and not all his opponents being weak.

I'm being a cunty, sorry.......but Daniel did wilt and we owe all of that to Jon for breaking him down.........he broke him even though they had all of those "break bones" shirts.....but he was true in his post fight speech

 

[Robbie Hart]

I remember Jon Jones saying that DC was mentally weak in the lead up to the first fight? Something about him being known to give up on the wrestling mat and in practice, and not being able to embrace the grind?

I don't think anyone can doubt DC's heart and courage, but I do believe that he broke mentally in the fight with Jones. And I think it's kind of lame how he's still talking so much about Jones even after the fight is off, and offering OSP a free training camp. Shouldn't he want Jones to win so he can have the biggest fight of his career and get revenge for his only loss? To me that says he doesn't have any confidence in his ability to beat Jones. He'll fight Jones with all he has, but I don't think he's confident like he would be with any other opponent. He knows he brought his best last time and it wasn't even close to being good enough.

Fucking winner........

 

[La Paix]

I'm being a cunty, sorry.......but Daniel did wilt and we owe all of that to Jon for breaking him down.........he broke him even though they had all of those "break bones" shirts.....but he was true in his post fight speech

Here's Jon and DC addressing those shirts, not sure if you remember this Q&A but there were lots of good back and forth for both of them. I time stamped if but go to 38:00 if it doesn't come up proper.

 

[KWingJitsu]

DC has been gotten to.

Monday: Jones is the best ever
Tuesday: OSP can beat him if he trains with me
Wednesday: I don't know how to beat Jon Jones
Thursday: Now is the time to beat Jon Jones
Friday: Jon Jones, why don't you love me?

 

[Robbie Hart]

DC has been gotten to.

Monday: Jones is the best ever
Tuesday: OSP can beat him if he trains with me
Wednesday: I don't know how to beat Jon Jones
Thursday: Now is the time to beat Jon Jones
Friday: Jon Jones, why don't you love me?

Like I said, there is no one happier tha DC......he doesn't have to go through hell to get demolished.......it takes one to know one....you could hear how happy he was in that interview with Ariel.....he wanted out because he can't handle the big time but wants everyone to think he does......

 

[FadeToBlack]

If it's in reference to his short comings in wrestling then I get it. Either way it's seems like DC gets so little credit for being either the champ* or top contender. Going 17-1 with lots of those being HWs and your only loss is to one on the greatest is pretty impressive IMO.

If anyone on this board doesn't think Cormier is a bonafide stud as a fighter, they should get their head examined. You didn't need more than 30 seconds to know DC was the man in Strikeforce. I still think Cormier is a better fighter than Jones, he's just got a smaller frame and I totally underestimated the impact that could have when I picked Cormier to wax dat ass. I think DC knows he's better and it really, really pisses him off that this clown not only won, but doesn't seem to respect the life he's fortunate to have with all the stupid behavior. We only know about the LEGAL shit, what about all the other shit he probably knows?

 

[WoodenPupa]

great call by @Priziesthorse calling him out on his failure to win the big fights a long, long time ago

That may be true of DC---I kind of feel the charge is overblown, though, and mostly based on his dashed aspirations for Olympic gold.

I mean, failing to beat Jon Jones is something over 20 fighters have experienced. I'm not sure what DC can do to beat him. If he can take him down he's got a chance, but we said that last time, too.

Anyway, given how great Jones is, why is it justified to say that because DC can't beat him, DC must be mentally weak? We didn't say that about Nog, for instance, who lost 3 times to Fedor. Or twice, with one N/C, whatever it was. We don't say it about Cro-Cop, who couldn't even beat Fedor in the standup dept---and so on. We don't call them mentally weak, because failing to beat Fedor doesn't make a fighter weak.

One thing that is definitely true is that DC has developed this bitter resentment toward Jones, and I think it started at that last mega press conference when the audience was cheering JJ and booing DC. It's not a good look for DC; I just don't think it translates into "mentally prepared to lose".

 

[Robbie Hart]

That may be true of DC---I kind of feel the charge is overblown, though, and mostly based on his dashed aspirations for Olympic gold.

I mean, failing to beat Jon Jones is something over 20 fighters have experienced. I'm not sure what DC can do to beat him. If he can take him down he's got a chance, but we said that last time, too.

Anyway, given how great Jones is, why is it justified to say that because DC can't beat him, DC must be mentally weak? We didn't say that about Nog, for instance, who lost 3 times to Fedor. Or twice, with one N/C, whatever it was. We don't say it about Cro-Cop, who couldn't even beat Fedor in the standup dept---and so on. We don't call them mentally weak, because failing to beat Fedor doesn't make a fighter weak.

One thing that is definitely true is that DC has developed this bitter resentment toward Jones, and I think it started at that last mega press conference when the audience was cheering JJ and booing DC. It's not a good look for DC; I just don't think it translates into "mentally prepared to lose".

I just think he's incapable of ever beating Jones and this will haunt him forever. He's mentally strong except against Jones and he doesn't want the Jones fight no matter what he says......he has a breaking point and it has been found

 

[Qat]

Some people play the psychology-drum like its the end-all be-all. First of all, you don't know for sure, second of all, it changes, little things can change it. If he lands a couple nice shots it can change. Maybe Cormier just wants to stay in the mouths of people? It surely is working that way.
Its a factor, certainly, but really, all these threads about it with all these claims, but so little threads about actual fighting skills, techniques and opportunities. Find some balance.

 

[Disciplined Galt]

Cormier ain't got shit for Jones, he can't win the grappling game topside and going for the legs is like getting the pot at the end of the rainbow. Cormier would get out struck and out grappled almost every time.

 

[kneeblock]

That may be true of DC---I kind of feel the charge is overblown, though, and mostly based on his dashed aspirations for Olympic gold.

I mean, failing to beat Jon Jones is something over 20 fighters have experienced. I'm not sure what DC can do to beat him. If he can take him down he's got a chance, but we said that last time, too.

Anyway, given how great Jones is, why is it justified to say that because DC can't beat him, DC must be mentally weak? We didn't say that about Nog, for instance, who lost 3 times to Fedor. Or twice, with one N/C, whatever it was. We don't say it about Cro-Cop, who couldn't even beat Fedor in the standup dept---and so on. We don't call them mentally weak, because failing to beat Fedor doesn't make a fighter weak.

One thing that is definitely true is that DC has developed this bitter resentment toward Jones, and I think it started at that last mega press conference when the audience was cheering JJ and booing DC. It's not a good look for DC; I just don't think it translates into "mentally prepared to lose".

The perception of mental weakness comes from 3 places imo.

1) The real emotional nature of DC's smack talk in the fights.

2) The rep he had in wrestling.

3) The fact that we watched him mentally break in the last two rounds, throwing out his whole striking strategy vainly attempting to get a takedown just to prove he could do it. And all this only to find out the guy he fought barely trained and was doing blow not long before they fought. DC must honestly know real fear of what clean, hard training Jones can do. Jones has B-level wrestling credentials and DC could barely get his arms around him. If you've wrestled at the Olympic level, that's severely mentally damaging.

Jones has physically broken plenty of fighters, but no one has been mentally dominated the way DC has, except maybe Rashad who was psyched out for other reasons.

 

[WoodenPupa]

The perception of mental weakness comes from 3 places imo.

1) The real emotional nature of DC's smack talk in the fights.

2) The rep he had in wrestling.

3) The fact that we watched him mentally break in the last two rounds, throwing out his whole striking strategy vainly attempting to get a takedown just to prove he could do it. And all this only to find out the guy he fought barely trained and was doing blow not long before they fought. DC must honestly know real fear of what clean, hard training Jones can do. Jones has B-level wrestling credentials and DC could barely get his arms around him. If you've wrestled at the Olympic level, that's severely mentally damaging.

Jones has physically broken plenty of fighters, but no one has been mentally dominated the way DC has, except maybe Rashad who was psyched out for other reasons.

(1) and (2) are pretty weak evidence. As for (1), fighters get emotional all the time in press conferences, interviews, and so on. It may be that during these moments there is weakness, but there is no justification in them for broad-scale inferences regarding their mental states. Plenty of angry fighters have gone on to win their fights. It just doesn't mean enough.

Regarding (2), his rep was that he got very emotional, not that he was mentally weak. He reached the highest levels of wrestling for Christ's sake. Olympics and World Championships. 6 of his 10 collegiate losses were to Cael Sanderson, possibly the greatest college wrestler ever.

(3) I find full of assumptions. How do you know that he was "vainly attempting to get a takedown just to prove he could do it"? Do you think that once he got it, that he wanted Jones to get right up? Clearly he thought his best shot to win the fight was to get Jones down at all costs at that point. Again, this is something that's happened in a million fights, and we don't call the fighters in question mentally weak.

The charge sounds like trivial psychologizing, and it's guesswork at best. The same kind of thinking is applied constantly to fighters at weigh-ins ("He's SHOOK"), during walkouts ("He looks mentally defeated"), and basically every interview that's sparked with any emotion.

It's pretty much GSP all over again. He's seeing a sport's psychologist---that's mentally weak! Look how careful he fights now---he's scared! Etc. The reverse applies too---"Just look at Conor's confidence! He's mentally defeated Nate."

Jones is the better fighter---that's by far the most important fact here. But psychology is easier to talk about than techniques and strategies.

 

[La Paix]

(1) and (2) are pretty weak evidence. As for (1), fighters get emotional all the time in press conferences, interviews, and so on. It may be that during these moments there is weakness, but there is no justification in them for broad-scale inferences regarding their mental states. Plenty of angry fighters have gone on to win their fights. It just doesn't mean enough.

Regarding (2), his rep was that he got very emotional, not that he was mentally weak. He reached the highest levels of wrestling for Christ's sake. Olympics and World Championships. 6 of his 10 collegiate losses were to Cael Sanderson, possibly the greatest college wrestler ever.

(3) I find full of assumptions. How do you know that he was "vainly attempting to get a takedown just to prove he could do it"? Do you think that once he got it, that he wanted Jones to get right up? Clearly he thought his best shot to win the fight was to get Jones down at all costs at that point. Again, this is something that's happened in a million fights, and we don't call the fighters in question mentally weak.

The charge sounds like trivial psychologizing, and it's guesswork at best. The same kind of thinking is applied constantly to fighters at weigh-ins ("He's SHOOK"), during walkouts ("He looks mentally defeated"), and basically every interview that's sparked with any emotion.

It's pretty much GSP all over again. He's seeing a sport's psychologist---that's mentally weak! Look how careful he fights now---he's scared! Etc. The reverse applies too---"Just look at Conor's confidence! He's mentally defeated Nate."

Jones is the better fighter---that's by far the most important fact here. But psychology is easier to talk about than techniques and strategies.

 

[Sweets]

DC doesn't have the cardio to keep chasing Jon around boxing/dirty boxing for 5 which is the one place he had success, that could be another explanation for the change of plan in rounds 4 and 5, as lifelong wrestler he knows how to rest and work in there.

Discounting his way over emotional psychological response as trivial, is a bad idea though, because it's a big factor. Way bigger than is normal for a fight.

 

[kneeblock]

(1) and (2) are pretty weak evidence. As for (1), fighters get emotional all the time in press conferences, interviews, and so on. It may be that during these moments there is weakness, but there is no justification in them for broad-scale inferences regarding their mental states. Plenty of angry fighters have gone on to win their fights. It just doesn't mean enough.

Regarding (2), his rep was that he got very emotional, not that he was mentally weak. He reached the highest levels of wrestling for Christ's sake. Olympics and World Championships. 6 of his 10 collegiate losses were to Cael Sanderson, possibly the greatest college wrestler ever.

(3) I find full of assumptions. How do you know that he was "vainly attempting to get a takedown just to prove he could do it"? Do you think that once he got it, that he wanted Jones to get right up? Clearly he thought his best shot to win the fight was to get Jones down at all costs at that point. Again, this is something that's happened in a million fights, and we don't call the fighters in question mentally weak.

The charge sounds like trivial psychologizing, and it's guesswork at best. The same kind of thinking is applied constantly to fighters at weigh-ins ("He's SHOOK"), during walkouts ("He looks mentally defeated"), and basically every interview that's sparked with any emotion.

It's pretty much GSP all over again. He's seeing a sport's psychologist---that's mentally weak! Look how careful he fights now---he's scared! Etc. The reverse applies too---"Just look at Conor's confidence! He's mentally defeated Nate."

Jones is the better fighter---that's by far the most important fact here. But psychology is easier to talk about than techniques and strategies.

Rewatch rounds 4 and 5 again and tell me DC was shooting those take downs for any kind of strategic reason. That's just not in line with what happened at all. One of the most appealing things about combat sports is you can see when someone's cardio breaks, when they hit the limit of their technical skill or when they mentally just lose it. DC/Jones 1 is a masterclass in mental breakdown. I don't buy into the hype in a fight ever, but in this case there is pure frustration at the end of the contest. It was almost on par with Rousey desperately trying to land a shot on Holm near the end of their fight.

 

[The EZ Life]

in two years, you will still never be the real LHW champion of the UFC

 

[WoodenPupa]

DC/Jones 1 is a masterclass in mental breakdown. I don't buy into the hype in a fight ever, but in this case there is pure frustration at the end of the contest. It was almost on par with Rousey desperately trying to land a shot on Holm near the end of their fight.

So frustration is mental breakdown? Should DC have had a smile on his face while being outgunned by a fighter who uses his physical advantages exceptionally well?

When you're outclassed, you're outclassed. It doesn't mean you're mentally "broken".

Rousey is an even worse example. She was rocked very early in the fight and basically fighting on autopilot after the first couple of minutes. She wasn't "broken" either---just outclassed and forced to rely on shitty prep and corner advice from Chocula.

One of the most appealing things about combat sports is you can see when someone's cardio breaks, when they hit the limit of their technical skill or when they mentally just lose it.

I'd say one of the most appealing things for fans is to conflate the first two items with the third.