No worries. I am done interjecting my opinion on every thread anyway. I just like posting here a lot. Boxing is one of the few things I know a fair bit about and was just talking about it from the viewpoint of someone who practiced it for years.
Machida´s bottom game...
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You're making sense to me. I'm no authority, but for instance, the wiki article on check hooks says:
"There are two parts to the check hook. The first part consists of a regular hook. The second, trickier part involves the footwork. As the opponent lunges in, the boxer should throw the hook and pivot on his lead foot and swing his back foot 180 degrees around."
I don't recall Luke moving his back foot to that degree, so I think you're right. Can we put a gif of it here?
BTW are .gifs allowed by Zuffa again? I've seen them all over here and the UG too. Did I not get the memo?
Just my 2 centavos, but the threads you absolutely should interject on are the ones where you have technical knowledge/training experience. It's by far the most valuable kind of post there is on an MMA forum.
FWIW, I think it helps to get everyone on the same page, since the clarity of future conversations depends on this. It's why arguing over definitions isn't trivial, so long as genuine intent for clarity is there. If there is a standard usage for a phrase like "check hook" then it's best to uphold that standard.
Of course, the underlying concept is most important, but then, the way we track those concepts is through standardized word usage. And if there is no standard, it's best to try to create one. So IMO Galanis is correct.
I see what you mean, but it's also like saying "kimura or straight arm bar. Doesn't really matter, because they are both money" to a BJJ practitioner. I had just asked if you had any vids of Luke doing the check hook because it's my fave technique... and I really admire Luke's improving skill set. I just wanted to see him do it because again, I love the check hook and have practiced it a lot. like a lot. It's rare to see in MMA and I love watching guys pull it off. I was not at all saying "you're a liar he has never done that". Not even close.
A user posted Luke landing a regular hook while moving backwards and I commended the technique and how good you have to be to land that way. But noted it was not actually a check hook in that particular video. It's like if someone threw an uppercut and a fan called it a hook. I'm just saying.
It's really not a big deal, but it irritated me to be told I was wrong and that Mayweather's check hook against Hatton, the most famous example of the technique, was a poor example of what I was describing. What WoodenPupa said above is exactly what I was trying to say. Just for technique's sake, I like to refer to things by their actual definition. You wouldn't call an arm triangle a neck crank.
I just feel like in the past 2-3 weeks, more than 10 times people have commented to me without me asking them, saying "your posts are too long", "don't post this here because you're sidetracking everything", "why do you care what Eaton Beaver does, let it go", "don't post this in that thread", etc. Just makes me feel bad. And here, I was not trying to start an argument. I was just talking about boxing and was told I did a poor job by someone I don't think actually boxes and may not understand the little differences in technique of what they're seeing. So to add to everything else, it was just another "why am I even posting again?" type deal. Just feels like a waste of time and effort.
Again, if you did BJJ for years, and someone was talking about a heel hook, and someone else called it a toehold. You might say "the technique in that video is awesome, but it's actually a heel hook and not a toe hold"
That's fine. I was calling it a check hook because of how he uses it to stop the advance of a forward moving fighter and control the range. If that term has to have the pivot movement attached to it, then the terminology I used was wrong. However, my point was that whether I was using the correct terminology or not, the way Rockhold uses that punch is money.
Yes, a check hook means to pivot the feet when throwing and to cut an angle after landing, all in one fluid motion. Moving out of the way using a very sharp angle is the main desire of the technique. I honestly don't know if there is a "name" to call what Luke did. I always just call it moving backwards, lol. Because trust me, it's REALLLLY hard to do that. It's super impressive when a guy can move backwards and land with any power, at all.
I did not start this deal as a fight or anything. It's honestly no big deal at all. I just wanted to see Luke's check hook, and I really did not mean anything negative by it. I just wanna make that clear. I wasn't trying to come off snotty. I just was excited to see the video, the other user posted that particular one, and i said it's kinda similar but isn't the same. Just got irritated being told I was wrong when, not to be cocky, but I knew I was not. I may have done a bad job at explaining it, but I really tried. Hey, I'm not a coach though, and never will be.
No doubt about that. I didn't realize it was something he used frequently until this thread. He is really good at it...and everything else, it seems.
Looked like more of a fucked up superman punch to me
- Jan 15, 2015
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but we also have to remember that boxing and mma are two entirely different beings. the footwork in boxing isn't the same as mma, so boxing techniques have to be adjusted to fit the sport. he did pivot his back foot a bit behind, but not so far that he could be caught off guard with a takedown if he missed. he also moved far enough out of the way that costa could go past him, but went right in when he knew it connected. we'd have to see how a coach would use this in mma, to be able to know for sure that it is or isn't what he was doing. it could be just a counter hook, but it looks to me like he was moving out of the way at the same time.
Yes, he was moving out of the way. But was moving backwards.
That's not what a check hook is. A check hook involves cutting an angle and moving completely to the side of your opponents body. Not backwards. There is a difference. It doesn't have to do with boxing and MMA being different. It doesn't mean Luke's technique is less impressive. It's just not a check hook. Just like an overhand right is not a right hook.
Check hook does not mean "moving out of the way" or "moving backwards". It means exactly what I'm telling you. Please trust me on this. I don't know what else I can say.
That's not what a check hook is. A check hook involves cutting an angle and moving completely to the side of your opponents body. Not backwards. There is a difference. It doesn't have to do with boxing and MMA being different. It doesn't mean Luke's technique is less impressive. It's just not a check hook. Just like an overhand right is not a right hook.
Check hook does not mean "moving out of the way" or "moving backwards". It means exactly what I'm telling you. Please trust me on this. I don't know what else I can say.
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i read the definition, and he did pivot, bit not 180 degrees. he stands almost sideways, so it's harder to tell.
You read a sentence online and watched a Youtube tutorial, and are telling me you understand the technique better than I do, despite never being taught it by a boxing coach, or practicing it yourself. It's not going off to any side. It's moving 180 degrees to the side if your opponent's body. The angle is very sharp. Just like the way Floyd lands it above. He ends up completely on the side of his opponent. Not a little bit to the left or right while standing in front of him. Completely on his side, facing his deltoid and lat.
Sorry I can't explain it better. Believe what you want.
Sorry I can't explain it better. Believe what you want.
There are thousands of ways to utilize different angles and footwork in boxing to land any punch. To set it up, or to get away after throwing it.
A check hook is a specific technique with a desired effect, revolving around getting to a certain spot relative to where your opponent is facing. 180 degrees to their side, just like Wikipedia says. Not every foot movement made after throwing a hook means you are throwing a check hook. Again, a check hook refers to a specific technique. This is driving me nuts, sorry.
A check hook is a specific technique with a desired effect, revolving around getting to a certain spot relative to where your opponent is facing. 180 degrees to their side, just like Wikipedia says. Not every foot movement made after throwing a hook means you are throwing a check hook. Again, a check hook refers to a specific technique. This is driving me nuts, sorry.
I'm one of the original FRAT kings. I've posted many, many times on the UG posts that are so long I can't even make it through them myself. I'm like, I don't have time for this shit...LOL. Anyway, what you have to understand is that many people who enjoy posts of that length, and actually read them, are only rarely going to reply.
It's human nature to synchronize the engagement, anyway and so a worthy reply will almost certainly have to match the length of the original post, something most aren't willing to do---and besides that, it isn't practical (or often necessary!---think about that; a really long but accurate post can leave little to say---you've taken care of what there is to say). So, it might be best to admit that the longer posts are ones you make primarily to fulfill your own standard of expression. You care about what you say, and want to cover all the bases. Those posts are primarily for you.
The thing about that is, there will be people who understand that impulse without always letting you know. That's the nature of the beast. Think about the lopsidedness of someone replying to a megapost: you post ten paragraphs, then they post "Yup" or something like that. That always looks a little weird, and most will choose to say nothing instead.
Personally, I can't stand to be unclear or leave bases uncovered when I post. For that reason, mine tend to be longer. The big risk is being full of shit. There's nothing funnier than being full of shit AND long-winded. I've done that plenty of times. I will again.
Anyway, boo to anybody telling you "Stop making posts so long." That's really strange. You have to let it roll though. The silent appreciators outweigh them, or should. For me, what determines whether I read a post is mainly (1) the poster and (2) the subject matter. I'm not terribly interested in debates about rankings, for instance, so if you roll out a mega-post on something like that, I'm liable to skim it. On things I am interested in, though, like techniques, or fight history, I'll read every word of what you have to say, no matter how damn long.
Cheers, bra.
Do you see how Floyd is completely on Hatton's side? That their heads/bodies are pointing in two totally different directions? That is the desired sequence/movement of a check hook. To get that far off to the side. Wikipedia says this'
"If executed correctly, the aggressive boxer will lunge in and sail harmlessly past his opponent like a bull missing a matador"
Go watch a matador get out of the away from a bull. They are not moving backwards. It's a direct, specific motion to get to the side. Completely to the side of their body. It's just, that is what this technique is. That's the desired effect. To quickly throw a hook and use your feet so that by the time you're done throwing the punch, your opponent is not facing you at all, and you are on their side.
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i didn't say i know it better than you because i've looked it up. i've heard dan hardy say he uses a check hook before too, so you see why i am looking into it so much, and trying to find info on it.
Yup
Okay, so technical question---what Mark Hunt is doing up there looks like a 90-degree pivot. Is he doing a check-hook?