Race discussion with Big.Thirsty

[IschKabibble]

You notice he is talking about "African Americans" and "South Eastern Hispanics" right?

Those are ethnicities.

I noticed. I also notice you skipped over "Caucasian" though, which was the same race you ridiculed as nonexistent earlier in the thread.

 

[DFW4L]

But we can't. We can only reasonably approximate trends. We can say "gene X likely caused a flaring of the nostrils in population group C." Meanwhile, a continent away, gene Y could have caused a similar effect in population group F. So are they now the same race? If so, what is the genetic marker of said race, gene X or Y?

So the scientific ability to distinguish would have to have a 100% success rate to convince you?

exceptions cannot exist in the standard you hold for geneticists classifying people by race?

 

[DFW4L]

If there's no such thing as race, what will we call the white folks who hate blacks? Ethnicityists?

I believe the way it works is...

Race is a social construct, identifying groups via their descendents is called 'ancestry', the KKK is a ancestrist group

 

[IschKabibble]

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

I noticed. I also notice you skipped over "Caucasian" though, which was the same race you ridiculed as nonexistent earlier in the thread.

I didnt hear that but only watched a few moments, let me have a listen tomorrow Im about to start posting from bed/on the phone but I want to watch this again in the morning over my 6 eggs, oats and coffee.

 

[1031]

Have a read of it.

I'll be honest with you, I not only don't find it convincing, I have no idea what that is supposed to convince me of.
Shi et all seem to be rather integral to the whole thing but when I go to the link and then click on the article, it becomes increasingly difficult for me to understand the basis for all of their speculations. It's like one speculation is built on top of the other. Probably that's not the case and I simply lack the discipline and familiarity and knowledge to digest their reasoning.
I'm still reading but I noticed this as well:

The different Y-chromosome haplotypes function as signatures for different human lineages and are often highly associated with different geographic regions, making them extremely useful for tracing human origins and migration.

Lineage? Origins? I'm not drawing any conclusions but I see a slippery slope (there's a hugely inappropriate pun here) in that. Anyhow, it's going to take me a while to read this....and no doubt Leigh is revved up by now

 

[IschKabibble]

I didnt hear that but only watched a few moments, let me have a listen tomorrow Im about to start posting from bed/on the phone but I want to watch this again in the morning over my 6 eggs, oats and coffee.

Just watch the Carlin bit I linked. It's better and more informative than anything posted to this thread so far.

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

Just watch the Carlin bit I linked. It's better and more informative than anything posted to this thread so far.

Race/Ethnicity is a euphemism?

 

[DFW4L]

An excess of melanin may tell you generally that a person may be non-European, but it's not a reliable measure that compensates adequately for biodiversity, e.g. is an albino non-African?

I think you are using genetic mutation here as a debate point to suggest there are no racial groups, albino dogs exist same as African human Albinos...

those are gene mutations inside those race groups & species

 

[IschKabibble]

Race/Ethnicity is a euphemism?

 

[DFW4L]

Race/Ethnicity is a euphemism?

Racial classification is a multi-million dollar mainstream industry, called 'Ancestry' for feel good purposes, that is the 'euphemism'...

 

[Kingtony87]

That would be Leigh agreeing with me in that premise, not the other way around.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. what I've gotten from your argument is that you can only make assumptions as to which socially constructed race a person belongs to based on physical attributes. But not definitively or with any true degree of accuracy

 

[DFW4L]

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. what I've gotten from your argument is that you can only make assumptions as to which socially constructed race a person belongs to based on physical attributes. But not definitively or with any true degree of accuracy

Leigh's position is that race is only a social construct, it does not exist physically, mine is that both are absolutely real and two separate things.

When you make a more/less assessment of them being real: therefore making the race of today more of a social structure then a biological one

You are declaring them both real, taking my side by default because you accept race as real (regardless of the 'less' real nature you ascribe to it over as a social construct)

 

[Leigh]

If there's no such thing as race, what will we call the white folks who hate blacks? Ethnicityists?

Race is real but not scientifically. No one, in 17 pages, has been able to scientifically specify a race.

 

[Punch]

If there's no such thing as race, what will we call the white folks who hate blacks? Ethnicityists?

Assholes.

 

[Kingtony87]

Leigh's position is that race is only a social construct, it does not exist physically, mine is that both are absolutely real and two separate things.

When you make a more/less assessment of them being real: therefore making the race of today more of a social structure then a biological one

You are declaring them both real, taking my side by default because you accept race as real (regardless of the 'less' real nature you ascribe to it over as a social construct)

But if you cannot physically determine someone's race with any real accuracy or definitiveness then it simply cannot be a determining factory in deciding race.

 

[DFW4L]

But if you cannot physically determine someone's race with any real accuracy or definitiveness then it simply cannot be a determining factory in deciding race.

So, do you think race is only a social construct because the accuracy of scientific race classification is not 100%?

I would suggest being able to determine someones race to certain high % using science means it exists physically, I also believe transportation technologies massive influence on humanity is a top reason that '%" is much less than 100

 

[DFW4L]

But if you cannot physically determine someone's race with any real accuracy or definitiveness then it simply cannot be a determining factory in deciding race.

Nothing can be a determining factor in deciding race, except prejudice, if you accept it as purely a social construct.

 

[IschKabibble]

Race is real but not scientifically. No one, in 17 pages, has been able to scientifically specify a race.

I gave you court evidence of racial DNA probabilities.

 

[Kingtony87]

So, do you think race is only a social construct because the accuracy of scientific race classification is not 100%?

I would suggest being able to determine someones race to certain high % using science means it exists physically, I also believe transportation technologies massive influence on humanity is a top reason that '%" is much less than 100

I do not believe that the percentage is near high enough to say that race can be proven scientifically by physical traits. There are to many differences especially physically in any particular "race" to accurately define what classifies it as a race.

 

[Kingtony87]

Nothing can be a determining factor in deciding race, except prejudice, if you accept it as purely a social construct.

Wouldn't classifying someone into a group based off physicality be the very definition of prejudice

 

[Leigh]

I gave you court evidence of racial DNA probabilities.

Probabilities are not specifications or requirements. There is a good probability that men named John are taller than 5'2 but that doesn't make names physically real.

 

[IschKabibble]

Probabilities are not specifications or requirements. There is a good probability that men named John are taller than 5'2 but that doesn't make names physically real.

Then why do they use the statistic as objective evidence in the court of law?

 

[Woko]

Wouldn't classifying someone into a group based off physicality be the very definition of prejudice

That is called oblique prejudice.

 

[girlandcoconut]

Trying to catch up on this thread....basically two white dudes arguing about race, right?