Ali is the greatest and always will be

[Greek777]

Anyone care to debate this?

Joe Louis has more of a claim to the GOAT than Floyd. Floyd is an all time great, but in no way does he come close to Ali's legacy, quality & caliber of opposition faced.. and what some might not be considering - greatness in life

How many women did Ali beat up?

I'm a huge fan of Floyd in the ring. He's a master. His defense makes Willie Pep and James Toney proud - if not envious.

But Ali is the greatest and always will be. In the ring and out of it.

 

[Greek777]

 

[Greek777]

FRAT ahead - if you are gonna debate this post, please read through what I have to say without just skimming and saying "well Floyd never lost, so how could Ali be greater than him?"

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Don't get me wrong. This is poetry in motion as well

Facing Marquez and dominating him was a great feat - despite how many weight classes he had to jump up - perhaps looking back with hindsight, Floyd's best win against an elite opponent.

However, one thing about Ali, is by far and away, he faced tougher opponents than Floyd. I am NOT saying Floyd hand picks guys or faces shitty fighters all the time. But he has done it before, and even against Pacquiao, he waited until the very end to make this fight.

It's just the the golden era was full of dangerous, high level HW fighters. Ali fought them ALL. When you are fighting the absolute best possible guy every time you're out there, the chances of losing are a lot higher.

Let's not forget, Ali missed 3 and a half years of his prime when he skipped the draft. THREE AND A HALF YEARS! That's like Dominick Cruz level of absence if not more.

IMO, wins over

Sonny Liston (twice)
Prime Foreman (when he was an unstoppable machine that no one even came close to beating)
Frazier (twice)
Ernie Shavers
Ken Norton (twice)
Leon Spinks (after already suffering from early stages of Parkinson's, Ali STILL went back and beat Spinks in the rematch)
Floyd Patterson (twice)
Jerry Quarry
Henry Cooper
Archie Moore
Cleveland Williams

Floyd's best wins are over

Vargas
Corrales
Castillo 2 (and he LOST that first fight, too, but hey the records say otherwise)
Oscar (at the end of his career)
Hatton
Mosley (at the tail end of his career)
Cotto (after sustaining serious brain damage from a glove loading cheat)
Canelo (all credit to Floyd here, no one thought he'd take the fight, but he did the smart thing in getting Canelo early)

You can throw in more names like Judah.. But are we really putting Zab Judah, Diego Corrales (RIP and all respect), Vargas and more on the same pedestal as Joe Frazier and Sonny Liston?


Those guys are all awesome, great fighters. Champions. But how many of those guys are going down in the all time great list? Not many.

Almost everyone I listed in Ali's names is a hall of famer, all time great. Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Norton, Patterson... etc. Floyd has never really beaten a guy that was as reputable as them.

He has beaten great fighters. I'm a HUGE Floyd fan. I don't hate him because of his personalty. I definitely don't admire or look up to the things he has done outside the ring, but I don't hate him because he's cocky or rich. I love him because of his skills in the ring, and his defense that is like no other. But greater than Ali? NO.

Is Marciano the greatest HW ever? Nope. He never lost, but how many guys did he face and beat with the reputation of Ali's opposition? Maricano faced everyone put in front of him, and never backed away from a fight. His best win name wise, over Joe Louis, came when Joe was long past it. Wins over Walcott, Charles and more were great. But those fighters were not Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Sonny Liston or Floyd Patterson.

Just because Floyd never lost does not make him the greatest automatically. This is something people get fooled by. They see "undefeated" and automatically thinks that means the best.

Ali's quality of opponents trumps Mayweathers. How can this be argued? Even some of the elite guys Floyd faced (Cotto, Marquez etc).. could easily have been considered past their prime by the time Floyd faced them.

In the last 6-7 years of Floyd's career since his initial retirement, aside from the Canelo fight, he very wisely and carefully selected his fights. Despite that, the last time Floyd got a KO was in 2007 against Hatton. He KO'd Victor Ortiz, but so would a lot of people when throwing a flush power shot at a guy standing there clueless and unprepared like a moron.

Ali finished A LOT of guys. The fact he finished Foreman when Foreman was KILLING EVERYONE, including knocking Joe Frazier down 6 times n 2 rounds... No one ever expected that. What monsters has Floyd ever beaten? When has Floyd has ever come back from adversity other than getting slightly wobbled by a 40 year old Mosley, holding on to regain his senses?

His fights in earlier years were more competitive maybe, like the Castillo fight (undefeated huh?).. but he never sat and got wailed on by someone like a prime George Foreman for 7 rounds, only to come back and knock him out cold.

Ali is the greatest. He shook up the world.

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Anyway. Long read, but I really think that if you break down their entire careers.. there is NO way that Floyd is greater than Ali. If anyone can make an argument using facts, with research into the fights when they happened, their opponents' careers at the time, etc.. I want to see it. I know an argument IS there, but when dissected in every way, I don't think it's the right one.



Either way? Can't wait for May 2nd : ) We probably won't see a fight this big at least for a couple of decades, unless Manny pulls off the miracle and they rematch.

 

[Wild]

Muhammad Ali will always be the greatest to us fellow Louisvillians.

 

[Greek777]

Muhammad Ali will always be the greatest to us fellow Louisvillians.

Funny you mention this. The book I posted about in off topic yesterday by Musashi (Book of Five Rings) says "MADE IN THE USA, Louisville KY, April 5 2015". Finished it today and noticed that on the last page. Thought of my man who is co owner of the best fight forum out there

You ever have the chance to see Ali in person at any type of function or event? When I was young, he came to Springfield MA (where I live) to go to a basketball Hall of Fame induction (that's our cities claim to fame - well, that and the crime rate -but yeah, basketball was invented here... ). I can't remember what players it was for, but it was sometime in the early/mid 90s. He must have been friends with whoever it was.

Anyway, it was all over the paper and stuff. I was little so it didn't register how big of a deal that was to me at the time even though I knew him as this legendary figure.

Still kicking myself in the ass for that one. Even though he just walked down the red carpet or whatever, just the chance to see Ali in person would have been something to brag about. So if you ever have, I'd love to hear about it.

 

[Wild]

Yeah, I've seen him from afar at UofL football and basketball games. Never was able to see him before he was struck by Parkinson's though. Very sad to see him in the state that he is now...prefer to remember him is his prime.

 

[King of Life]

Galanis how do you think prime Ali would have done against a prime Lennox Lewis or Vitali Klitschko?

 

[Greek777]

I'm in the middle of watching the 6 part series FOX did in 2013 called "Being: Mike Tyson" again. It was a really cool show that I'd recommend to any boxing fan, even a casual one.

But anyway, there is this scene in one of the episodes where Tyson goes to visit Ali at his house, in 2013. Even though it's very brief, and I don't think this is the full clip of the scene, this is a must watch video. Only about 90 seconds long.

New Video Player

Anyway... So heart breaking, just absolutely terrible, to see a man of such great mental and physical prowess in that state. Ali had so much more to give the world and his disease prevents him from even communicating.. God knows what his health is like in 2015. Recent reports suggested he was near death but that phase seems to have passed.

Still though. It's really great to see that Ali 1) seems aware at least somewhat of what's going on around him, 2) recognizes Tyson, and 3) Tyson and Ali sitting together reading, talking, etc. Obviously a staged meeting for a show, but these two have crossed paths many times over the years. In the present, they are both vastly different people than they were in their best years... Tyson for the better, but Ali, sadly for the worst. Much worse.

Anyway, if any boxing fans wanna chime in with their argument either way, please do. Super bored, about to watch some old fights and found out this one Ali documentary I have on DVD actually had a remastered version of Ali vs Foreman as a bonus feature. Either I didn't realize that before or simply forgot because it's been so long since I've seen it... but it sure is nice to watch fights from that era that are not in 240p on Youtube ;p

Later guys. Check that video out.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Watching thread to learn. Not sure I know enough to get on a soapbox here.

 

[sgotwalks]

My first dog was named Cassius, we had a cat named Ali, and my son's middle name is Clay. After spending a couple of months backpacking around Egypt and getting hustled by about 600 different Muhammad's, that name was out of the question..........not that it would have made a difference, that name was out of the question anyhow, lol! But you get my drift, I agree with this thread 100%, and these posts are awesome!!

 

[Shy Guy]

I don't know enough about pro boxing to debate that so I will just nod and smile.

 

[Greek777]

Galanis how do you think prime Ali would have done against a prime Lennox Lewis or Vitali Klitschko?

I think they might have beat him. But it's impossible to say with any certainty and arguments can be made on either side. In Ali's defense, he came up in the strongest pool of HW talent ever. When Lewis and Vitali ruled the division, it was and is still considered the weakest and most shallow HW division of all time. Neither of them ever faced anyone like Ali though. Their list of reputable challenges, guys who could be considered on their level in the same way Foreman, Frazier etc were during Ali's reign.. They didn't really exist. Lewis deserves credit for his win over Holyfield, but people were calling for Evander to retire even back then in 1999.

Lewis fought Klitschko and retired right after their highly controversial fight. David Haye was hyped pretty big when he fought Wlad, but was a cruiserweight and who did he ever beat that was anywhere close to greatness?Vitali doesn't really have a big name, signature win over anyone close to ATG status. Lewis beat Tyson when he was a decade past his jail sentence and prime. Lewis' best win is the cut stoppage over Klitschko and he was losing on the cards at the time of the stoppage. They were both HUGE men (Vitali and Lewis, and well Wlad too) but Ali would have had an absolutely massive speed advantage both on the feet and with his punches.

So that's the argument FOR Ali. BUT, you can definitely make an argument that if you transported prime Ali to face them in their prime, he may be beaten - maybe not because of superior skill, which goes to Ali. But the face that Lewis and Vitali came around 25-30 years later. Not only were they giants who moved damn well for their size, they also had the benefit of modern training methods, supplements, sports science.. and, this is not meant in disrespect, but performance enhancing drugs. Vitali has admitted that he used steroids at an early age just like almost every high level athlete from the Soviet Union.

Are we really to believe that Vitali and Lewis never touched any form of test, growth or other PEDs in their day? The testing in boxing when they ruled was essentially non existent aside from a post fight piss test. What if Ali was given the same benefits? Modern training, the highest level PEDs a scientist can even come up with (if he chose to take them).

The point being.. it's impossible to decide. There are arguments on both sides as to who would win if they actually fought against each other. I actually lean toward Vitali and Lewis winning simply because athletes in the 2000s are just different than athletes from decades prior. I know this is near blasphemy, but I guess I am a realist. Then again - if Hasim Rahman can knock Lewis out cold, who's to say Ali couldn't? Or that if McCall TKO'd Lewis, Ali couldn't overwhelm him with speed, volume and agility over a long, grueling fight? Maybe Lewis was not in his "prime" at that fight itself, but it still happened and it was by a guy that shouldn't even have had a chance.

If the size/height and strength advantage were not present, Ali would dance circles around them, pick them apart and make them look foolish. But he would literally be facing guys who make Foreman look small. Yet Vitali and Lewis' combination of size, power and decent speed are what make them the great champions they are. Taking that away would mean they are not the same guy.

Pound for pound, Ali is the better boxer in every way than they are. But if they faced off against each other, I don't know if he'd beat them.

Broken down to bullet points.. Ali's advantages -

speed
technical ability
defense
higher level of opposition faced/defeated
indomitable will

Vitali and Lewis' advantages

humungous dudes
massive power
modern training, sports science and drugs
reach


So yeah. I can't give a 100% answer either way really. But if there was a time machine and the 210 lb Ali from 1966 faced the 250 pound Vitali or Lewis.. I dunno if he'd be able to pull it off. Give him a life time of modern training, steroids and whatever else.. and it's a different story. Take those things away from Lewis and Vitali, and they may have been powerful but extremely slow and uncoordinated punching bags for someone of Ali's caliber.

It's hard to say either way and there are so many factors involved in who would win under what circumstance.

 

[King of Life]

I think they might have beat him. But it's impossible to say with any certainty and arguments can be made on either side. In Ali's defense, he came up in the strongest pool of HW talent ever. When Lewis and Vitali ruled the divisions, it was and is still considered the weakest and most shallow HW division of all time. Neither of them ever faced anyone like Ali though. Their list of reputable challenges, guys who could be considered on their level in the same way Foreman, Frazier etc were during Ali's reign.. They didn't really exist.

Lewis fought Klitschko and retired right after their highly controversial fight. David Haye was hyped pretty big when he fought Wlad, but was a cruiserweight and who did he ever beat that was anywhere close to greatness? Lewis beat Tyson when he was a decade past his jail sentence and prime. Lewis' best win is the cut stoppage over Klitschko. They were both HUGE men (Vitali and Lewis, and well Wlad too) but Ali would have had an absolutely massive speed advantage both on the feet and with his punches.

So that's the argument FOR Ali. BUT, you can definitely make an argument that if you transported prime Ali to face them in their prime, he may be beaten - maybe not because of superior skill, which goes to Ali. But the face that Lewis and Vitali came around 25-30 years later. Not only were they giants who moved damn well for their size, they also had the benefit of modern training methods, supplements, sports science.. and, this is not meant in disrespect, but performance enhancing drugs. Vitali has admitted that he used steroids at an early age just like almost every high level athlete from the Soviet Union.

Are we really to believe that Vitali and Lewis never touched any form of test, growth or other PEDs in their day? The testing in boxing when they ruled was essentially non existent aside from a post fight piss test. What if Ali was given the same benefits? Modern training, the highest level PEDs a scientist can even come up with (if he chose to take them).

The point being.. it's impossible to decide. There are arguments on both sides as to who would win if they actually fought against each other. I actually lean toward Vitali and Lewis winning simply because athletes in the 2000s are just different than athletes from decades prior. I know this is near blasphemy, but I guess I am a realist. Then again - if Hasim Rahman can knock Lewis out cold, who's to say Ali couldn't? Maybe Lewis was not in his "prime" at that fight itself, but it still happened and it was by a guy that shouldn't even have had a chance.

If the size/height and strength advantage were not present, Ali would dance circles around them, pick them apart and make them look foolish. But he would literally be facing guys who make Foreman look small. Yet Vitali and Lewis' combination of size, power and decent speed are what make them the great champions they are. Taking that away would mean they are not the same guy.

Pound for pound, Ali is the better boxer in every way than they are. But if they faced off against each other, I don't know if he'd beat them.

Broken down to bullet points.. Ali's advantages -

speed
technical ability
defense
higher level of opposition faced/defeated
indomitable will

Vitali and Lewis' advantages

humungous dudes
massive power
modern training, sports science and drugs
reach


So yeah. I can't give a 100% answer either way really. But if there was a time machine and the 210 lb Ali from 1966 faced the 250 pound Vitali or Lewis.. I dunno if he'd be able to pull it off. Give him a life time of modern training, steroids and whatever else.. and it's a different story. Take those things away from Lewis and Vitali, and they may have been powerful but extremely slow and uncoordinated punching bags for someone of Ali's caliber.

It's hard to say either way and there are so many factors involved in who would win under what circumstance.

Always love reading your posts Galanis! Really admire your passion for combat sports!

Oh just for the record Lewis defeated Holyfield twice as well as past prime Tyson.

Ah yes the Rahman fight I remember that well. Lewis was supposed to arrive in Africa something like at least 8 weeks to get acclimated to the conditions. He didn't arrive until something like less then 2 weeks and didn't take Hasim as seriously as he should. Notice how quickly he was breathing out of his mouth whereas Rahman was in Africa 3 months before the fight and was fully acclimated to the conditions.

In my opinion that fight was a complete one off due to Lewis poor preparations for the fight. We all saw what happened in the rematch.

As for Vitali I really feel he was one of the most underated Boxers who ever lived. He was essentially undefeated as both of his defeats he was clearly winning and was stopped due toeither injury from his shoulder or a bad cut. Before Vitali stepped in for the injured Kirk Johnson both Lennox and Manny both said Lewis could fight for years to come. The fact he retired after the Klitsckho fight spoke volumes to me.

I agree with you regarding size, modern training, sport science and modern performance enhancing drugs playing a critical factor here.

However regarding speed David Haye is a very very fast fighter. It's only when you see him live can you really appreciate just how quick he is. Yet Vladimir handled him pretty well. I don't know if Ali is that much faster then David for it to make any real difference in my opinion.

It's also a great shame we never saw Ali rematch with Foreman. How would that fight have gone if Foreman comes in in with very different tactics knowing Ali likes to let opponents waste their energy like that.

It's a very fascinating subject. For me I don't subscribe to a greatest fighter of all time due to too many variables. I believe you can definetly be the greatest of your era.

 

[Greek777]

I mentioned the Tyson and Holyfield fights. I would say Mike was far more past his prime than Evander was when he faced Lewis. That Tyson did not even want to be in there. Evander, even if his skills eroded a bit, DID want to fight and trained properly. So that'd be his best win for sure actually, I retract my statement about it being Vitali. However, Vitali was young and really damn good when Lewis carved his face up. I think that's his best win with hindsight, considering that Vitali went on to become a dominant champion, and the fact Evander was a bit old and never retained his greatness after. But at the time of the actual fights themselves, I would say Holyfield is Lewis' best notch in his resume

I am a massive Vitali fan also. I like Wlad but he is nowhere near as relentless, aggressive or good as Vitali was 8-10 years ago. Wlad is still great though, has been unbeaten for like 11 years now.. But I really hate when he does the jab and clinch game. I get it, and he wins dominantly every time with it. There have been plenty of fights where he did NOT do that, and just mauled guys within a round or two. But the more recent years, Wlad has been all about the same usual strategy. Dominant but not pretty to watch. Also relying on his size more than actual skill... Maybe that isn't the best way to say that though. Because Wlad is immensely skilled. But his height and power play into the clinch game he utilizes endlessly.

Whereas Vitali had a much more lethal combo of size AND skill. Vitali would've killed Wlad if they ever fought. Haye was a really fast fighter, I agree.. but my god did he put on one of his worst performances ever against Wlad. I was hoping for a great fight - but by the end of it, it was not only evident that wasn't the case, but Haye actually WAS diving into to Wlad's clinches to try and score penalties against him. Ridiculous. Can you imagine Ali doing that kind of thing? Broken toe or not. Haye broke and knew he couldn't actually beat Wlad, IMO

Like I said though. I think Vitali is high up on the ATG list. It's just a shame that when he ruled the division, after Lewis retired, there was no one who could even be considered close to on his level. Wlad may have been the one to unite all the belts, but Vitali was the real champ to me. Now it's Wlad since Vitali is retired.. Lol @ Deontay Wilder being "heavyweight champion of the world"

I could talk abut this shit forever. Lewis and Vitali would probably have better resumes if those high level opponents did exist, because they would probably have beaten them. I wish they had a rematch, that really would've been something. But you could argue Lewis was old and Vitali was young when it would have taken place.

After the Ali fight, Foreman had a few pretty bad/oddball performances for a while there. There was the thing in Toronto (I believe) where he fought like 5 bums in one night, and then had the absolute slugfest war with Ron Lyle.. But, Lyle dropped him a few times, Foreman looked sloppy... and it seemed like the Ali fight changed Foreman until he came back later on with a completely different style. I think Ali would've beaten Foreman earlier than he did the first time if they rematched. Also, it must be mentioned how much punishment Ali absorbed to get to the point that he could take Foreman down. Not many guys could have sat on the ropes and ate those punches for that long without hurting or going down.

Man, I love boxing. Wish I was actually alive back during the golden era. Also James, I think you raise extremely valid points that I agree with completely. In a hypothetical era vs era matchup, there is never a right answer. I do feel like in a "greatness" argument though, there is a right and wrong, and IMO Mayweather's greatness is not near Ali's. Just my opinion however.

Also I will send ya a PM later tonight. Gotta reply to all of em.. Came on here to rant about this and saw my inbox was full. Hope all is well man.

 

[King of Life]

I mentioned the Tyson and Holyfield fights. I would say Mike was far more past his prime than Evander was when he faced Lewis. That Tyson did not even want to be in there. Evander, even if his skills eroded a bit, DID want to fight and trained properly. So that'd be his best win for sure actually, I retract my statement about it being Vitali. However, Vitali was young and really damn good when Lewis carved his face up. I think that's his best win with hindsight, considering that Vitali went on to become a dominant champion, and the fact Evander was a bit old and never retained his greatness after. But at the time of the actual fights themselves, I would say Holyfield is Lewis' best notch in his resume

I am a massive Vitali fan also. I like Wlad but he is nowhere near as relentless, aggressive or good as Vitali was 8-10 years ago. Wlad is still great though, has been unbeaten for like 11 years now.. But I really hate when he does the jab and clinch game. I get it, and he wins dominantly every time with it. There have been plenty of fights where he did NOT do that, and just mauled guys within a round or two. But the more recent years, Wlad has been all about the same usual strategy. Dominant but not pretty to watch. Also relying on his size more than actual skill.

Whereas Vitali had a much more lethal combo of size AND skill. Vitali would've killed Wlad if they ever fought. Haye was a really fast fighter, I agree.. but my god did he put on one of his worst performances ever against Wlad. I was hoping for a great fight - but by the end of it, it was not only evident that wasn't the case, but Haye actually WAS diving into to Wlad's clinches to try and score penalties against him. Ridiculous. Can you imagine Ali doing that kind of thing? Broken toe or not. Haye broke and knew he couldn't actually beat Wlad, IMO

Like I said though. I think Vitali is high up on the ATG list. It's just a shame that when he ruled the division, after Lewis retired, there was no one who could even be considered close to on his level. Wlad may have been the one to unite all the belts, but Vitali was the real champ to me. Now it's Wlad since Vitali is retired.. Lol @ Deontay Wilder being "heavyweight champion of the world"

I could talk abut this shit forever. Lewis and Vitali would probably have better resumes if those high level opponents did exist, because they would probably have beaten them. I wish they had a rematch, that really would've been something. But you could argue Lewis was old and Vitali was young when it would have taken place.

After the Ali fight, Foreman had a few pretty bad/oddball performances for a while there. There was the thing in Toronto (I believe) where he fought like 5 bums in one night, and then had the absolute slugfest war with Ron Lyle.. But, Lyle dropped him a few times, Foreman looked sloppy... and it seemed like the Ali fight changed Foreman until he came back later on wit ha completely different style. I think Ali would've beaten Foreman earlier than he did the first time if they rematched. Also, it must be mentioned how much punishment Ali absorbed to get to the point that he could take Foreman down. Not many guys could have sat on the ropes and ate those punches for that long without hurting or going down.

Man, I love boxing. Wish I was actually alive back during the golden era. Also James, I think you raise extremely valid points that I agree with completely. In a hypothetical era vs era matchup, there is never a right answer. I do feel like in a "greatness" argument though, there is a right and wrong, and IMO Mayweather's greatness is not near Ali's. Just my opinion however.

Also I will send ya a PM later tonight. Gotta reply to all of em.. Came on here to rant about this and saw my inbox was full. Hope all is well man.

Sorry you are right I missed it when you mentioned Holyfield! Apologies for that! You are right in 1999 I do remember some said he was past it at that point. You can make a good case for that.

To Vitali's credit even after the fight he acknowledged that Lewis felt heavy and how he was slower and could see every punch. Lewis definetly did not reach his peak physical condition in preparing for Kirk Johnson and seriously underestimated Vitali. Although to be honest I think almost everyone did around that time!

I do wonder how a fully prepared and trained Lewis would have been like against Vitali. However in a rematch would Vitali be even more dangerous knowing from first hand experience what Lewis is like?

Agree with you that Vitali was definerly the better all round fighter. Unlike Vlad he had an Iron chin. To this day I don't know how the fuck he wasn't decapitated with that uppercut Lewis hit him with in the 6th round I think. The only thing I think Vlad has over Vitali is that he definetly has more KO power in his right hand.

Yeah that Haye fight was one of the most dissapointing fights I have ever seen. Especially being a fellow englishman! I really thought he had a chance with his speed to ctach Vladimir at least once then who knows. Sadly by the middle rounds I kind of knew he wasn't going to be able to pull it off.

Agree with you about Foreman and yes the punishment Ali took was unbelievible! Also fights back then were 15 rounds too. Can't begin to imagine what 15 rounds with Jor Fraizer must have been like. No-one goes 15 rounds today obviously. To this day I still think Hopkins bears Taylor in their first fight if it went 15 rounds instead of 12.

Completely with you though regarding Ali versus Mayweather. There is a certain something about Ali that you don't get with Floyd. He fought so many monsters in their primes. Mayweather less so by comparison. Am really looking foward to the fight with Pacquiao but this should have happened years and years ago. Could never imagine Ali not fighting Foreman or Frazier for 5 or 6 years!

Ah don't worry about the PM mate I know you are a popular guy so no need to rush or anything. Always cool to read your posts Galanis! I really love the passion you bring to a topic!

Off to bed now as it's 1.15am here in the UK! Got to be up for work at 6! Would be really interested in what rules you would have if you had your own MMA organisation. Please feel free to talk about what you prefer I would love to hear your opinion on this.

Goodnight man!

 

[Greek777]

 

[BJTT-Rizzo]

My first dog was named Cassius, we had a cat named Ali, and my son's middle name is Clay. After spending a couple of months backpacking around Egypt and getting hustled by about 600 different Muhammad's, that name was out of the question..........not that it would have made a difference, that name was out of the question anyhow, lol! But you get my drift, I agree with this thread 100%, and these posts are awesome!!

"Muhammad is the most popular name in the world.." - McLovin

 

[BJTT-Rizzo]

@Galanis you really are a combat sports encyclopedia. I gain knowledge daily reading yo stuff.

 

[Greek777]

If you mean that man, thank you, that means a lot. I just turned 26, but for the last 10-11 years, my existence has consisted of fight research - film, books, documentaries etc. When I was little I'd read old issues of the Ring magazine my dad had and I learned about boxing though that and ESPN Classic/Classic sports (which ruled in the 90s, probably still does).

I do wanna say though. Showtime/HBO sure know how to many someone look larger than life. I just got done watching the Inside May/Pac videos. Jesus Christ. It literally motivated me to get on my bike and go on the speed bag at like 1 am, all because of Floyd.

It sounds like I am down playing and hating on him kinda here.. but I have a framed poster of him in front of my screen and I stare at it every day. He is a machine and an inspiration to hard work. Really, I think he's top 3 all time. Maybe top 5? I don't know because it's so subjective, but IMO his name 100% belongs there with Ali, Robinson, Louis, etc. I just don't think he is greatER - BUT, that kind of attitude and belief is what got him to where he is. Maybe I shouldn't say anything ; )

 

[Greek777]

Also. Everyone needs to see the movie "Facing Ali". Everyone. I'll post why when I'm not so tired tomorrow. And finally answer my PMs too.