Society How do you feel about open borders?

[kneeblock]

@Splinty is always saying the liberal endgame is open borders (despite the vehement protectionist pro labor policies of the far left and the mass deportations under Obama). So how do you feel about them?

Obviously they would lead to concerns, but it can be argued corporations already enjoy all the benefits of open borders through various free trade agreements that allow them to take most of the resources of other countries and outsource their labor at low wages to sell products around the world.

So if ALL borders were open you could basically go live in any country you wanted anytime you wanted, do whatever business you wanted and keep whatever money you made wherever you wanted.

The downside to this is it would basically erode the prestige of nation-states and likely decrease tax bases while also representing a huge security risk that the diminished nation-state would be hard pressed to manage. This is to say nothing of wealthy nations suddenly facing resource challenges as people flood their labor markets and social programs.

In some senses, it could have an equalizing effect as every nation could end up just a bit more miserable. On the other hand, it could lead to a true free market where people go to the resources rather than the resources being hoarded in arbitrary locations.

Rather than just saying whether you're yay or nay, expound a bit on what types of governmental and economic changes you see the idea of open borders bringing to the world, for good or ill.

 

[BJTT_Pella]

LOCK'EM DOWN.

 

[Chief]

I honestly don't care as I'll be dead in 30 years. I can goosestep the last 10 or eat Tacos or drink vodka.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

 

[Splinty]

despite the vehement protectionist pro labor policies of the far

No one said the left weren't hypocrites

the mass deportations under Obama)

While moving towards amnesty in a standoff with the Republicans that "the borders are already secure" so that conversation is over, selective enforcement of immigration law, sanctuary cities as a predominantly Democrat position, Democrat support for citizenship pathway for millions of illegal immigrants and simultaneously wanting to loosen additional pathways for more visas and movement. Democrat calls of racism for wanting to stop illegal immigration. Democrat pushing that no one is illegal, just "undocumented".
That's all de facto open borders via the current system.


In the end though, officially open borders are a tool of the elite. Not necessarily the left. You can find plenty of Libertarian support for the same.

Open borders will double GDP world and gut the average Americans lifestyle and earning capabilities.

 

[Yossarian]

So we're talking about universal law? One governing entity? What else would decide where laws end and begin? Open borders is assuming similarity between many cultures, it would even push out the less dominant ones.

Maybe that experiment would have to start in the US, away with federalism, state by state borders. I am for perserving unique cultures and languages as they are already erroding quickly in a globally more accessible world. If the main purpose is to rid ourselves of poverry, I highly doubt that will have effect. The political landscape would have to change, and I don't think that would paint a pretty picture. Unless of course, Oprah Winfrey would run this thing.

 

[ConorMcGregor NutHugger]

To have open borders would mean everyone would have to respect one and other. How long would it take for some one to say thats theirs and not yours. Some people think that rainwater is theirs and it against the law to collect. Thats in the US the free est country in the world. Maybe if people find out we are all the same, noones special this open border thing might work. But whos the first to change in right direction?

 

[kneeblock]

No one said the left weren't hypocrites







While moving towards amnesty in a standoff with the Republicans that "the borders are already secure" so that conversation is over, selective enforcement of immigration law, sanctuary cities as a predominantly Democrat position, Democrat support for citizenship pathway for millions of illegal immigrants and simultaneously wanting to loosen additional pathways for more visas and movement. Democrat calls of racism for wanting to stop illegal immigration. Democrat pushing that no one is illegal, just "undocumented".
That's all de facto open borders via the current system.


In the end though, officially open borders are a tool of the elite. Not necessarily the left. You can find plenty of Libertarian support for the same.

Open borders will double GDP world and gut the average Americans lifestyle and earning capabilities.

Since Texans say Democrat party, do you also say Republic party?

Your answer isn't an answer.

 

[kneeblock]

So we're talking about universal law? One governing entity? What else would decide where laws end and begin? Open borders is assuming similarity between many cultures, it would even push out the less dominant ones.

Maybe that experiment would have to start in the US, away with federalism, state by state borders. I am for perserving unique cultures and languages as they are already erroding quickly in a globally more accessible world. If the main purpose is to rid ourselves of poverry, I highly doubt that will have effect. The political landscape would have to change, and I don't think that would paint a pretty picture. Unless of course, Oprah Winfrey would run this thing.

Elaborate. Assume there is no overarching purpose except to fit the scenario under which you think it would be feasible or explain why it would never be feasible. When you say the political landscape would have to change, how? I think your idea about what would decide where laws end and begin is a good point.

 

[Splinty]

Since Texans say Democrat party, do you also say Republic party?

Not sure what's that's about. I didn't say Democrat party.

I said Democrat. As in the group of people commonly referring to themselves as Democrats.

Your answer isn't an answer.

What was the question?
How do I feel about them?

I'm against open borders as you already answered for me.

And as I answered...

Open borders will double world GDP and gut the average Americans lifestyle and earning capabilities.

 

[HEATH VON DOOM]

We should just open the borders to anyone and see how quickly things go to shit.

 

[BJTT_Pella]

We should just open the borders to anyone and see how quickly things go to shit.

One look around and I can see it's already gone to shit. Open the borders and it'll be finished quicker.

 

[member 3289]

If the rest of the world had just let themselves be colonized by the English, we wouldn't be in this predicament.

 

[b00ts]

Touchy subject. I'm all for the free movement of people and immigration through legal channels. The problem is that the channels are expensive, lengthy, and very complex. This is why you have relatively normal families coming here illegally and are then classified as criminals. The process needs to be more streamlined to be faster and more affordable while also properly vetting anyone with a criminal past and proper job history. I have no issues when contributing members of society moving here to better their life. It's when criminals or people who will not hold a job and contribute to our welfare problem that I begin to take issue. Liberals have turned this into a nanny state and illegal immigrants have begun taking advantage of that. The social security I'm forced to pay because the government thinks I can't save my own money will be nothing when I reach the age where I can get my money back.

 

[HEATH VON DOOM]

One look around and I can see it's already gone to shit. Open the borders and it'll be finished quicker.

No lets open them up completely, since they are already forced to come here illegally and work why not let them have full access to our social services.

 

[IschKabibble]

My only personal argument against such loose border policy is that prosperous cities are already congested enough as it is. Maybe let them found their own new immigrant city out in the Southwest. Otherwise I'm totally okay with limiting people from moving into my already overpopulated area.

Florida population continues to outdistance New York

Florida population grew by 367,525 people in 2016, to 20,612,439 million, the second largest gain in sheer numbers after Texas, according to new U.S. Census numbers.

Florida continues to outdistance New York as the third largest state in the nation. Compared to Florida’s gain, the Empire State lost almost 2,000 people from July 1, 2015, to July 1, 2016, according to the new estimates. New York’s total population slipped to 19,745,289.

Florida growth rate was fourth highest in the nation, behind three Western states. The percentage of Florida growth was 1.82 percent, just behind Utah (2.03 percent); Nevada (1.95 percent); and Idaho (1.83 percent).

U.S. population grew by 0.7 percent to 323.1 million, the U.S. Census Bureau said.

Florida population continues to outdistance New York

 

[Truck Party]

not a fan. we'll look a lot more like the shitholes around the world than the shitholes will look like us if we open the gates up

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

US led regime change in Mexico should render it a better place to live and therefore remove the motivation to cross all those rivers.

 

[HEATH VON DOOM]

I love how a large portion of Americans seem to think we are the only country with border laws.

 

[Yossarian]

When you say the political landscape would have to change, how? I think your idea about what would decide where laws end and begin is a good point.

I think borders entail much more than just land. They ultimately are a fence created by tribes, which carry their culture, values, religion, etc. A group of people that were unified by those idealogies. We now have the luxury to question all that since we're relatively comfortable compared to our ancestors' world. Politically, we would have to come up with more universal laws, that are a fit for everybody. Because without any borders, one votes locally where one lives? Is nationality still a thing? (Which I think will erode as well, along with cultural values, etc.)

We would need an established universal language. I mean to remain functional, a society, at least on city level would have t argee on such things. Would language merge together? Money? Politically, culturally, administratively, open borders would present an enormous challenge. Because when people talk about open borders, they often neglect the future, say, three generations from now.

Borders have a function, and it is simple to say that they cause poverty elsewhere. That would be ignoring a lot of factors other than economics. Borders have secured a group of people to function within a platform based on law, ethics, culture, ancestry, religion, etc. It is easy to look back and say borders are irrelevant or obsolete, it even may be a bit arrogant.

At one point in human history borders began to make sense, and may have prevented violence over territory. Then we had time for development.

Who knows. Interesting question though.

 

[KWingJitsu]

No borders. No governments. No countries. No world order.

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

Obviously they would lead to concerns, but it can be argued corporations already enjoy all the benefits of open borders through various free trade agreements that allow them to take most of the resources of other countries and outsource their labor at low wages to sell products around the world.

That's almost entirely false. Free trade agreements are full of tariffs and limits.

A true free market (like true democracy) will never be allowed. We're not to be trusted with our own fates.

 

[Kingtony87]

No lets open them up completely, since they are already forced to come here illegally and work why not let them have full access to our social services.

Because wanting to give someone something doesn't magically make those goods or services appear.

 

[HEATH VON DOOM]

Because wanting to give someone something doesn't magically make those goods or services appear.

Well of we let them just come here then they would be eligible for government programs in all states and they wouldnt be forced to work like they are now. Have some compassion bro.

 

[Kingtony87]

Well of we let them just come here then they would be eligible for government programs in all states and they wouldnt be forced to work like they are now. Have some compassion bro.

I'm sensing i missed the subtle sarcasm of your first post....

 

[HEATH VON DOOM]

I'm sensing i missed the subtle sarcasm of your first post....

Yes you missed the part where they are forced to come here and work.