if america stays there what is the endgame? stay there forever ?
General Trump is scum re. the kurds
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M
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I posted it already. See the previous page
it is amazing watching all the dems suddenly support war and act like they give a fuck about the kurds
def not the "Dems" I grew up with
party values have been completely brainwashed and manipulated by MSM IMO
M
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absolutely . the swamp wants to stay there forever . the neocons dont want the troops to ever come home
M
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It's funny how you think Trump gives a shit about any of this.
He reached a deal with Erdogan and is benefiting from this somehow. We'll probably never see how, but don't think for one second that Trump gives a fuck about the troops coming home
he campaigned on bringing the troops home and no more endless wars
M
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Yet he agreed to send troops to Saudi Arabia to help safeguard it from Iran, which is a picture-perfect example of an endless war.
Come on now. I know he's your boy but you're not naive enough to think Trump gives a fuck about anyone but himself.
hillary would have nuked it by now and invaded iran but somehow you can turn it around and make it so bringing the troops home is a negative
M
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It's the timing that's retarded, not the act.
And what Hillary hypothetically would or wouldn't have done is a moot point. What Trump actually did is still dumb as fuck
Syria will not go back to the Syrians. We would have never agreed to give it back to Al Assad leading.
So now Russia, Syria, Turkey, Kurds, and Iran look to chop up territory. This quagmire will continue.
Our leaving was hasty and the wrong way. But we should leave, believe me I am okay with that. But not for a second is this a humanitarian move.
Syria, under Al Assad, will not be able to retake all this area. Despite Russia's interest in playing papa bear to all of the above, that deal wont be made with the actors on the ground as well as others (hi ISIS).
It's obvious Trump didn't expect Turkey's offensive (we left and blew our bases up because we didn't wind down with any sort of plan and hadn't left before Turkey started their offensive).
We just setup an occupation and peaced out.
So now Russia, Syria, Turkey, Kurds, and Iran look to chop up territory. This quagmire will continue.
Our leaving was hasty and the wrong way. But we should leave, believe me I am okay with that. But not for a second is this a humanitarian move.
Syria, under Al Assad, will not be able to retake all this area. Despite Russia's interest in playing papa bear to all of the above, that deal wont be made with the actors on the ground as well as others (hi ISIS).
It's obvious Trump didn't expect Turkey's offensive (we left and blew our bases up because we didn't wind down with any sort of plan and hadn't left before Turkey started their offensive).
We just setup an occupation and peaced out.
lol
In ‘Cave-In,’ Trump Cease-Fire Cements Turkey’s Gains in Syria
I've been busy this week and only saw that we enacted and quit sanctions. Turkey sets a ceasefire, violates the ceasefire, and then goes back to it after they get some momentum.
Syria and Kurds will end up with an uneasy alliance to stop Turkey from taking Syrian land and murdering Kurds (to stop increase in Turkeys Kurdish resistance). So we have increase in Turkey v Syria with Kurds leaning towards Al Assad who we have been against.
Turkey is still NATO, so now if Syria gets too wild and we have to back up Turkey, we are backing a war against the Kurds inside of NATO.
Russia, have fun there.
In ‘Cave-In,’ Trump Cease-Fire Cements Turkey’s Gains in Syria
I've been busy this week and only saw that we enacted and quit sanctions. Turkey sets a ceasefire, violates the ceasefire, and then goes back to it after they get some momentum.
Syria and Kurds will end up with an uneasy alliance to stop Turkey from taking Syrian land and murdering Kurds (to stop increase in Turkeys Kurdish resistance). So we have increase in Turkey v Syria with Kurds leaning towards Al Assad who we have been against.
Turkey is still NATO, so now if Syria gets too wild and we have to back up Turkey, we are backing a war against the Kurds inside of NATO.
Russia, have fun there.
View: https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1185270839102660610?s=20
The US has backed 21 of the 28 ‘crazy’ militias leading Turkey’s brutal invasion of northern Syria
Left: John McCain with then-FSA chief Salim Idriss (right) in 2013; Right: Salim Idriss (center) in October, announcing the establishment of the National Front for Liberation, the Turkish mercenary army that has invaded northern Syria.
Footage showing members of Turkey’s mercenary “national army” executing Kurdish captives as they led the Turkish invasion of northern Syria touched off a national outrage, provoking US government officials, pundits and major politicians to rage against their brutality.
In the Washington Post, a US official condemned the militias as a “crazy and unreliable.” Another official called them “thugs and bandits and pirates that should be wiped off the face of the earth.” Meanwhile, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton described the scene as a “sickening horror,” blaming President Donald Trump exclusively for the atrocities.
But the fighters involved in the atrocities in northern Syria were not just random tribesmen assembled into an ad hoc army. In fact, many were former members of the Free Syrian Army, the force once armed by the CIA and Pentagon and branded as “moderate rebels.” This disturbing context was conveniently omitted from the breathless denunciations of US officials and Western pundits.
According to a research paper published this October by the pro-government Turkish think tank, SETA, “Out of the 28 factions [in the Turkish mercenary force], 21 were previously supported by the United States, three of them via the Pentagon’s program to combat DAESH. Eighteen of these factions were supplied by the CIA via the MOM Operations Room in Turkey, a joint intelligence operation room of the ‘Friends of Syria’ to support the armed opposition. Fourteen factions of the 28 were also recipients of the U.S.-supplied TOW anti-tank guided missiles.” (A graph by SETA naming the various militias and the type of US support they received is at the end of this article).
In other words, virtually the entire apparatus of anti-Assad insurgents armed and equipped under the Obama administration has been repurposed by the Turkish military to serve as the spearhead of its brutal invasion of northern Syria. The leader of this force is Salim Idriss, now the “Defense Minister” of Syria’s Turkish-backed “interim government.” He’s the same figure who hosted John McCain when the late senator made his infamous 2013 incursion into Syria.
The “sickening horror” this collection of extremists is carrying out against Kurds is, in fact, the same one it imposed on Syrians across the country for the past seven years. Before, when their goal was regime change in Damascus, they had the blessing and wholehearted support of official Washington. But now that they are slaughtering members of a much more loyal US proxy force, their former patrons and enablers are rushing to denounce them as “bandits and pirates.”
The FSA and White Helmets become Turkey’s mercenary army
Turkey employed anti-Assad insurgents against the Kurdish YPG for the first time in March 2018, when it invaded the northern Syrian city of Afrin during Operation Olive Branch. That onslaught saw an array of heinous atrocities, from the vandalism of the corpse of a female Kurdish fighter to the looting of Afrin. These war crimes were committed largely by fighters of the defunct Free Syrian Army – the collection of “moderate rebels” once armed by the CIA.
In a video message, one of the invading fighters promised mass ethnic cleansing if Kurds in the area refused to convert to his Wahhabi strain of Sunni Islam. “By Allah,” the fighter declared, “if you repent and come back to Allah, then know that you are our brothers. But if you refuse, then we see that your heads are ripe, and that it’s time for us to pluck them.”
Also present in Afrin were the White Helmets, the supposed civil defense outfit that was nominated for a Nobel Prize, celebrated by the Western media as life-saving rescuers, and heavily funded by the US and UK governments. The White Helmets had arrived as auxiliaries of the Islamist mercenary forces, and were operating as Turkish proxies themselves.
This October, when Turkish-backed Islamist fighters stormed back into northern Syria, atrocities immediately followed.
Hevrin Khalaf, a Syrian Kurdish legislator, was pulled from her car by the militiamen and executed along with her driver. Other Kurds, including two unarmed captives, were filmed as they were murdered by the Turkish proxies. The mercenary gangs went on to deliberately free ISIS captives from unguarded prisons, releasing hundreds of their ideological soulmates to the battlefield.
View: https://twitter.com/ZaidBenjamin5/status/1183124385462288384?s=20
The most shocking footage allegedly showed the Turkish mercenaries sawing the heads off of Kurdish fighters they had killed. For those familiar with Nour al-Din al-Zinki, a participant in the Turkish invasion that was formerly supplied by the CIA, and which beheaded a captive Palestinian-Syrian fighter on camera in 2016, this behavior was not surprising.
Left out of the coverage of these horrors was the fact that none of them would have been possible if Washington had not spent several years and billions of dollars subsidizing Syria’s armed opposition.
Prolific promoters of the “moderate rebels” run from their records
When the Turkish military and its proxy force overwhelmed the Kurdish YPG this October, Hillary Clinton angrily denounced their brutality.
Back in 2012, however, when Clinton was Secretary of State, she junketed to Istanbul to rally support for those very same militias during a “Friends of Syria” conference convened by Erdogan.
She later remarked, “The hard men with the guns are going to be the more likely actors in any political transition than those on the outside just talking. And therefore we needed to figure out how we could support them on the ground, better equip them…”
One of those “hard men” is Salim Idriss, today the “Defense Minister” of Syria’s non-existent “provisional government” and de facto leader of the mercenary forces dispatched by Turkey into northern Syria. He has pledged, “We will fight against all terror organizations led by the PYD/PKK.”
Back in 2013, however, Idriss was lionized in Washington and hyped as a future leader of Syria.
When the later Sen. John McCain made his notorious surprise visit to the Turkish-Syrian border in May 2013, hoping to inspire a US military intervention, he was warmly welcomed by Idriss, the then-leader of the US-backed Free Syrian Army.
“What we want from the US government is to take the decision to support the Syrian revolution with weapons and ammunition, anti-tank missiles and anti-aircraft weapons,” Idris told Josh Rogin, a reporter and neoconservative booster of regime change in Syria.
Though Idriss and his allies never got the full-scale intervention they sought from the Obama administration, they did receive shipments of heavy weapons, including hundreds of anti-tank TOW missiles.
They were also showered with adulation by droves of hyper-ambitious foreign correspondents from corporate Western outlets.
CNN’s Clarissa Ward was an especially enthusiastic promoter of the FSA, embedding with its fighters, painting them as a heroic resistance. When she returned to Syria years later, she used a top mouthpiece of Syria’s local Al Qaeda affiliate as a fixer for her unequivocally pro-opposition “Inside Aleppo” series.
Danny Gold was also among the flocks of Western reporters that embedded with the armed opposition during the height of the insurgency against Damascus. In 2013, he churned around a piece for Vice on “chatting about ‘Game of Thrones'” with a group of fighters from Jabhat al-Nusra, Al Qaeda’s local franchise.
Gold and a clique of rabid online regime change zealots spent the rest of their time clamoring for US intervention in the country and viciously denigrating anyone who disagreed. Gold has, for instance, likened The Grayzone’s factual coverage of Syria to Nazi propaganda.
This October, when the Turkish invasion of northern Syria began, Gold reported that one of the FSA fighters he embedded with back in 2013 was taking part in the assault on Kurdish positions.
View: https://twitter.com/DGisSERIOUS/status/1183402233679024128?s=20
Like Hillary Clinton and the rest of the Islamist fighters’ former boosters, Gold was clearly struggling with a case of cognitive dissonance. Unable to take responsibility for promoting these extremists as they rampaged across Syria for years, or for smearing anyone who forcefully opposed the regime change agenda, he lashed out at his critics: “Almost as if war is complicated and doesn’t fit into the neat little box the anime teens in my mentions don’t realize,” he tweeted.
As members of a former US proxy ruthlessly prey on a present day US proxy, Western pundits and politicians are hoping that no one notices that they spent the past seven years celebrating the former group. They are initiating a cover-up, not only of the blowback unfolding in northern Syria, but of their own records.
This band of hacks is now fully exposed for foisting a bloody scam on the public, marketing some of the most brutal fanatics on the planet as revolutionaries and “moderate rebels” while they destabilized an entire region. Like the extremists they once promoted, most have somehow managed to evade accountability and remain employed.
Below is SETA’s list of Turkish “national army” militias, outlining the type of US support each one received over the years:
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M
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I've been thinking about just how much Russia is getting out of saving Assad's ass. I'd imagine Syria's eternal debt is being paid 100% in oil.
I'm sure that's the plan if Assad stays in power but that's a huge if. This can go on longer than he is alive.
They all want us gone for influence but again, this is about as successful as any of our attempts at weighting the middle East pendulum. Long-term I expect it'll blow up in Russia's face.
Ill be interested to how this plays out.
Turkey v Syria. Iran and Syria allied against Turkey. Russia trying to play all of them. Kurds an x factor in all countries.
We ought to dump Turkey from NATO but can't do it right now. But it sure does tie us into this in a way we don't want.
Europe is gonna have a lot of fun trying to prevent yet another refugee surge their way.
View: https://twitter.com/CRG_CRM/status/1185209032317046785?s=20
The U.S. Armed Forces are not withdrawing from the eastern Euphrates River Valley region of Deir Ezzor or its plethora of oil fields, a military source in Damascus told Al-Masdar News.
According to the source, the U.S. Armed Forces won’t withdraw from these areas because of Iran’s presence in eastern Syria and the reality that Damascus would again have access to Deir Ezzor’s vital oil fields.
He would add the U.S.’ two largest military bases in Syria are in eastern Syria near some of the country’s largest oil fields like Al-‘Umar.
Damascus has wanted the Al-‘Umar and Conoco oil fields to be returned to their government; however, with the U.S.’ large military presence in the eastern countryside of Deir Ezzor, they have found themselves blocked from these critical petrol supplies.
Furthermore, with the ongoing sanctions against the Syrian government, the U.S. administration sees the return of these oil fields to Damascus as a benefit to the state and their allies like Iran.
Syria has been under an economic siege for several years now, leaving much of the country in dire need of resources like medicine, gas, et al.
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I asked cuz it's relevant
The US / Afghan relations go way back, US was supporting the rebels to fight the Soviets in the 80s without having US troops in Afghanistan. Then in 2001, the US was hunting Osama and started putting troops there. They initially cleared the Taliban during that time but when US turned their focus to Iraq, the Taliban regrouped and got stronger, started gaining more territory. Then around 2007, US started sending more troops to gain security and stability and that's the war in Afghanistan that's continuing to this day.
2012, Obama administration signed agreements to help out with social/economic development, security, and others that lasts for 10 years. The security status of Afghanistan today did not get better from 2012, they just had another suicide bombing today, killed 60. This is because even if US clears Taliban controlled areas, as soon as the US move out, the Taliban will move back in and gain control. It's kind of like the drug wars, all the effort, money, and time spent but results are always the same. So anywhere from 2007-2019 and into the future, it would not have mattered when the US pull out because the state of Afghanistan would be destabilized as soon as the US move out.
(this is long but check it out if you got the time, it shows the reality)
So pretty much the same thing in Syria. The US was involved at first without having Troops there, supported the rebels fighting the Govt, at first medical and food, then training, intel, eventually started fighting ISIS, running covert ops, then got involved in bombing campaigns, fire support, deployed special forces and really got involved after that chemical attack by the Syrian Govt. The US was going to push through into Syria but backed out in Dec 2018, and started making their withdraw since then. Like in Afghanistan, get deeper into the war and there's no telling that any incident could escalate into more commitment after commitment and before you know it, it's the same, another decade of counter-insurgency in Syria, same story all the time. (you should look up how the Vietnam war started)
Look what you wrote and read my response. What you're saying is you don't necessarily care what happens to them after we leave but you care what happens to them before we leave? are they dehumanized or something after we leave? you make no sense.
I was generally speaking because people will criticize the move regardless. Say if Syria / US war was escalated and we started sending more troops in, there will be people complaining that we don't want to get stuck in some endless war, but then when we withdraw, people will also complain, can't keep everyone happy.
that's like saying if we paid attention to the region from waay before like around 2010, not all 400,000 people (total number killed) wouldn't have died. What makes the difference cuz you did say this,
contradicting what you're saying, what's the difference before and after we leave? They are the same people.
and why didn't other coalition forces get involved to help? Why is that only on the US? The withdraw announcement was made in December 2018 almost a year to do something about that situation.
Syria is a conflict zone. Actual war is going on there.
Saudi - Iran is a high tension area, so far no direct combat. There are already US troops *stationed in the area, different from deploying troops for actual combat missions. It's similar situation to North and South Korea. US sends troops to the region when N.Korea acts up but usually nothing happens because no country wants to go to war with anyone who can inflict lots of damage and that goes for both sides.