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Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
26,775
29,378
Bezos & Zuck.

but also literally all of these people i listed above

Oprah, Jordan, Lebron, Dana.

add Dr Dre, George Lucas, and more.

Pretty damn impressive mobility

I mean not everyone becomes billionaires but the fact there are several people who can create empires from very little in a relatively short time in our country is pretty fucking unique and should be celebrated.
Zuck and Bezos both used privileged contacts within the 1% to get their business off the ground.

What are the records of Zuck and Bezos on human rights within their companies?
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
26,775
29,378
Oprah, Jordan, Lebron, Dana.

add Dr Dre, George Lucas, and more.
Dana was the boxercise coach for Lorenzo Fertita's wife.

and with entertainers, the system is agnostic. Right now, there is a guy who's better than Jordan or LeBron an basketball, but the system didn't provide them the same opportunity. If Jordan had never picked up a basketball, you would have spent just as much on the NBA's product;.
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
5,861
7,991
Zuck and Bezos both used privileged contacts within the 1% to get their business off the ground.

What are the records of Zuck and Bezos on human rights within their companies?
your moving the goalposts sir and yes of course. Not to mention completely ignoring the rest of that list. And there are many more.

If you have an idea you need capital to to invest and build your idea. if you don't have it yourself you need to go find it. Of course of course of course. That's not evil nor is it some broken system.
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
5,861
7,991
Dana was the boxercise coach for Lorenzo Fertita's wife.

and with entertainers, the system is agnostic. Right now, there is a guy who's better than Jordan or LeBron an basketball, but the system didn't provide them the same opportunity. If Jordan had never picked up a basketball, you would have spent just as much on the NBA's product;.
thats just not true. How many people tuned in to see conor fight despite his losses. he's paid because people pay to see him. Same is true for jordan or lebron. they are not paid to win or for how good they are at basketball. you get paid based of how much you convince others to willing give you money. With social media etc there are far far far less gatekeepers and barriers to entry than ever before. Once again it's our "system" improving. As it should be. You should be able to decide how you want to spend your capital. Lucas became a billionaire not just off of entertainment but literally changing the technology with which movies were made through Industrial Light and Magic and THX. Dre was the face behind and used his fame to create beats.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
26,775
29,378
your moving the goalposts sir and yes of course. Not to mention completely ignoring the rest of that list. And there are many more.

If you have an idea you need capital to to invest and build your idea. if you don't have it yourself you need to go find it. Of course of course of course. That's not evil nor is it some broken system.
you're describing the idealized system, not the system as it actually exists.

I asked you to name 4 and your two "exceptions" attended Princeton and Harvard. Bezos got his money as a fuckin investment banker and was one of the first to manage a hedge fund with math.

You named the four, and they're all privileged white guys.
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
5,861
7,991
What are the records of Zuck and Bezos on human rights within their companies?
do they have people in forced slave labor camps or working in such terrible conditions that nets are needed to stop you from killing yourself on their factories i don't know about?

Or did all of their employees agree to work for them for a certain wage. Hell Meta's starting salary is over 6 figures.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
26,775
29,378
thats just not true. How many people tuned in to see conor fight despite his losses. he's paid because people pay to see him. Same is true for jordan or lebron. they are not paid to win or for how good they are at basketball. you get paid based of how much you convince others to willing give you money. With social media etc there are far far far less gatekeepers and barriers to entry than ever before. Once again it's our "system" improving. As it should be. You should be able to decide how you want to spend your capital. Lucas became a billionaire not just off of entertainment but literally changing the technology with which movies were made through Industrial Light and Magic and THX. Dre was the face behind and used his fame to create beats.
the point is that they are not special. It's a circus that you pay to watch.

George Lucas is a white guy who went to USC with Francis Ford Coppola. FFS.

keep trying?
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
26,775
29,378
do they have people in forced slave labor camps or working in such terrible conditions that nets are needed to stop you from killing yourself on their factories i don't know about?

Or did all of their employees agree to work for them for a certain wage. Hell Meta's starting salary is over 6 figures.
you realize that most of Amazon's products come from those suicide factories?

also, you're moving the goal posts by creating this false comparison to other systems.

We're talking about our system.

Sharecroppers weren't exploited? Is a paycheck the measure of exploitation? what about all our illegal immigrants, 3rd class citizens, that this system runs on...how close are they to being slaves?
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
5,861
7,991
you're describing the idealized system, not the system as it actually exists.

I asked you to name 4 and your two "exceptions" attended Princeton and Harvard. Bezos got his money as a fuckin investment banker and was one of the first to manage a hedge fund with math.

You named the four, and they're all privileged white guys.
you need to re read your posts because you never asked for 4 of anything. I willing found the top 4 richest people in the US. 2 of which came from zero wealth and yes were smart enough to attend ivy league colleges. Bezos was born to teenage parents and his adopted step father was Cuban immigrant. SOOOOOO privileged . Look past your bigotry man. You completely ignored the several black billionaires I listed as well.

You are complaining that highly smart and educated people convinced other people to give them money to start business that then offered a service or product that millions if not billions of people partake it. idk what system you think works better than that.
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
5,861
7,991
the point is that they are not special. It's a circus that you pay to watch.

George Lucas is a white guy who went to USC with Francis Ford Coppola. FFS.

keep trying?
ahh yes i get it now you're bitter that nobody wants to to pay $ to watch your circus.

also you may want to capitalize the W when you say White so people can infer the vitriol you seem to be using it with. I mean how dare someone who looks a majority population in their country be successful.

Nevermind the fact that we have more created more millionaire and billionare people of color than all other countries combined. Or that fact that these "White Guys" you keep talking about on average are not the top earning group in America but troll along my friend. Wear your che shirt sip your champange sit in your air conditioner and complain about those better off than yourself.
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
5,861
7,991
you realize that most of Amazon's products come from those suicide factories?
and yet they allow you to sell products on there. You thinking we should close down trade with foreign countries? all? some? You ever see how many people in china have been lifted out of abject poverty since 1970?

Sure it cost us a bunch here at home. But global human flourishing is the highest it has ever been.
Is that in spite of our system because again that's pretty damn serendipitous.

And before you say im speaking to our system as it's ideal. I simply am not. We have plenty of warts in our systems and room for improvement. But all those global statistics about poverty decreasing, people have more and better now, etc happened under our system even with all it's warts.

Pretty damn amazing if you ask me.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
26,775
29,378
and yet they allow you to sell products on there. You thinking we should close down trade with foreign countries? all? some? You ever see how many people in china have been lifted out of abject poverty since 1970?

Sure it cost us a bunch here at home. But global human flourishing is the highest it has ever been.
Is that in spite of our system because again that's pretty damn serendipitous.

And before you say im speaking to our system as it's ideal. I simply am not. We have plenty of warts in our systems and room for improvement. But all those global statistics about poverty decreasing, people have more and better now, etc happened under our system even with all it's warts.

Pretty damn amazing if you ask me.
again, i'm comparing the system to the system it claims to be, you're comparing it other systems that have their own problems.

"there's no mass school shootings in China"
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
26,775
29,378
you need to re read your posts because you never asked for 4 of anything. I willing found the top 4 richest people in the US. 2 of which came from zero wealth and yes were smart enough to attend ivy league colleges. Bezos was born to teenage parents and his adopted step father was Cuban immigrant. SOOOOOO privileged . Look past your bigotry man. You completely ignored the several black billionaires I listed as well.

You are complaining that highly smart and educated people convinced other people to give them money to start business that then offered a service or product that millions if not billions of people partake it. idk what system you think works better than that.
He went to an Ivy League college and used his connections to land a hedge fund job. He skimmed enough off the productive people to start his own business that exists off the backs of literal and very-near literal slaves.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
26,775
29,378
ahh yes i get it now you're bitter that nobody wants to to pay $ to watch your circus.

also you may want to capitalize the W when you say White so people can infer the vitriol you seem to be using it with. I mean how dare someone who looks a majority population in their country be successful.

Nevermind the fact that we have more created more millionaire and billionare people of color than all other countries combined. Or that fact that these "White Guys" you keep talking about on average are not the top earning group in America but troll along my friend. Wear your che shirt sip your champange sit in your air conditioner and complain about those better off than yourself.
nice ad hominem. Freeloading Rusty @Freeloading Rusty - see how I'm a dirt worshiping socialist comrade now?

the point is that some things make us better humans, and some appeal to our base instincts.

the media of the 1% appeals to our base instincts and is an inhibitor of human growth.

The ideal system is ideal, but we're a loooong way from realizing it. Not when guys like Jeff Bezos are taking joy rides to space for the sake of their egos, off the backs of slaves and tax payers.

we create millionaires and billionaires because we print the money. The rest of the world is going to get sick of it eventually.
 

Hauler

Planting trees I'll never climb.
Feb 3, 2016
41,006
53,587
Electric cars charging take about the same electricity as 25 refrigerators running. What’s that going to do to the grid?

I’m investing in gas powered generators.
There's a clip out there where an electric vehicle big shot was asked how the electric that runs his cars was generated. His answer was hilarious.

Hint...It's coal.
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
5,861
7,991
There's a clip out there where an electric vehicle big shot was asked how the electric that runs his cars was generated. His answer was hilarious.

Hint...It's coal.
Europe is reopening coal plants right now for heating and cooling. Idk about you but I’m pretty sure fossil fuels leave a better carbon footprint than coal.
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
5,861
7,991
The ideal system is ideal, but we're a loooong way from realizing it. Not when guys like Jeff Bezos are taking joy rides to space for the sake of their egos, off the backs of slaves and tax payers.
You’re the one comparing our broken system vs some imaginary ideal in your head.
I’ve compared actual outcomes of our current broken system. And you truly think there’s nothing to be gained from creating cheaper space travel??

but I get it. You don’t want people to be able to both give away and spend their own money as they see fit.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
26,775
29,378
but I get it. You don’t want people to be able to both give away and spend their own money as they see fit.
this strawman/ad hominem where you think I'm some sort of collectivist is hilarious.
BeardOfKnowledge @BeardOfKnowledge - join me, Comrade!

The point is that "how they see fit" is manipulated by a system that caters to their base instincts in order to obscure their true self-interest.

You’re the one comparing our broken system vs some imaginary ideal in your head.
I’ve compared actual outcomes of our current broken system. And you truly think there’s nothing to be gained from creating cheaper space travel??
I say the system works for the privileged, and to the detriment of the everyone else, even though it's marketed differently.

You told us that the system works as designed, and then listed off a half-dozen privileged White men.
There is a HUGE productivity/income inversion where the people who create and produce the least earn the most.
That's a feature of a broken system.

Was Julie Meyes the most qualified person to lead ICE?
Was Hunter Biden qualified in any way to sit on the board of Burisma?
Did Jared Kushner earn the wealth he's using to back the Saudi wealth fund?

Can you buy in to Affinity Partners? Can you buy in to any of the private equity firms that run our economy?
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
5,861
7,991
this strawman/ad hominem where you think I'm some sort of collectivist is hilarious.
@
BeardOfKnowledge
@BeardOfKnowledge - join me, Comrade!
This is a directed at your disdain for people willingly giving their own money to Jordan lebron etc and or spending it to invest in space travel Amazon Facebook etc.
 

Hauler

Planting trees I'll never climb.
Feb 3, 2016
41,006
53,587
"I have an electric vehicle and I'm saving the world."

Meanwhile, at the other end of that plug you're charging the car with:


1658586255697.png
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
26,775
29,378
This is a directed at your disdain for people willingly giving their own money to Jordan lebron etc and or spending it to invest in space travel Amazon Facebook etc.
i don't have any disdain for people doing what they want, the only line I draw is between Freedom and Liberty.

but people spending their money on Lebron jerseys is very rarely in their best interest. Professional sports is basically a surrogate for real relationships, but I like sports so let's not talk about that. :)

EDIT - and Jeff and Elon aren't investing their money in space travel, their investing my money without my consent or oversight.

 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
26,775
29,378
"I have an electric vehicle and I'm saving the world."

Meanwhile, at the other end of that plug you're charging the car with:


View attachment 73997
what's that electric vehicle made of?

how much energy did it take to acquire, process, and form those materials compared to recycled steel or aluminum?