Discussion in 'Cageside - MMA Discussion' started by D-raw, Dec 29, 2016.
yep, I know its not easy
props to you and thanks for taking a long look at each year
I'm kinda kicking myself because in hindsight I realized that the furthest an mma fighter of the year award goes back is 2008 and from then on usually you can see who runner ups are like top 3 or top 5.
I should've included guys I was comparing and who my final choice was b/c new fans could take a look and see some familiar or unfamiliar names and be motivated to go back and watch fights of theirs. Ah well.
Really it's a toss up. I look at your list which personally I think GSP's is the weakest of the 3, but Liddell and Cro Cop what they did in 06 and comparing what Big Nog and Barnett did, I can see an argument either way.
It's funny because I did so many years but the main controversial one is 2006 and it's not just between two fights but five. Can't have a five way tie I don't even like a two way tie. I guess it's just preference but let me do a breakdown of all nominees, pro's and con's just off the cuff and we'll see if anything changes.....
One of the wins was avenging a loss
The names he beat are two of the best
Finishes Hughes but barely beats BJ, extremely controversial fight(personally think it should've been a draw)
Only fought two times
One of his wins was against a natural lw
Four fights, four finishes
Four fights, four months
Two of the wins were in one night
Two of the wins were against considerably smaller opponents in Minowa and Wanderlei
His win over Barnett happened in tournament fashion where Mirko was matched up against a natural Lhw where as Mirko's 2nd opponent's first match was a 15 minute War against top 3 HW Antonio Nogueira
All 3 finishes
All 3 opponents were top level opponents(maybe a stretch for Tito at that time)
At the time Chuck was a favorite in all of these fights
All 3 of these were rematches in which Chuck dominated the prior bouts
5-2, one of the most active fighters significantly more in this time period than most high level fighters
1st opponent(Kaz Nakamura)=4-1 previous five before facing being finished by Barnett
2nd opponent(Aleksander Emelianenko)=5-0 previous five finishing 4 of the five before being finished by Barnett
3rd opponent(Mark Hunt)=5-0 previous five before being finished by Barnett
4th opponent(Antonio Nogueira)=4-1 previous five with his only loss being to Fedor before losing to Barnett
5th opponent(Mirko Filipovic)=4-1 previous five who fought a Lhw prior to Josh Barnett fighting HW Antonio Nogueira. Mirko beat his first round lhw in 5 minutes via ko where as Barnett had a 15 minute war against Noguiera before having to face a more rested, less tested Mirko
6th opponent(Pawel Nastula)=1-2 however his first two ever mma fights were against Big Nog and Aleksander Emelianenko, was coming off his first win before being finished by Josh Barnett
7th opponent)Antonio Nogueira)=lost via decision in a very exciting bout that could've gone either way
If Barnett stopped fighting after his 4th fight this fiscal year of 2006, he'd be 4-0 with 3 finishes against Kaz Nakamura, Aleks Emelianenko, Mark Hunt, and Big Nog. Instead he fought THREE more times going 1-2 however one loss was at a significant disadvantage and his other loss was very close decision, both losses to two top hw's of this era(2006).
Kaz Nakamura was not a natural HW and very undersized
His bout with Big Nog, while exciting as a mother fucker, was very close
Pawel Nastula, while a natural HW, was not too much of a threat with the skillset he had against guys of Barnett's calibur
Fought five times going 4-1, avenging his only loss the same year
First opponent(Tamura)=3-2 before being finished by Big Nog
2nd opponent(Zulu)=4-1 before being finished by Big Nog
3rd opponent(Werdum)=4-1 before losing to Big Nog
4th opponent(Barnett)=3-2 before barely beating Big Nog
5th opponent(Barnett)=avenged his loss the same year
Tamura was a weak ass opponent. Small LHW or big MW, sporting a shitty 3-2 record his last five against guys not heavyweights, was expected to lose and he delivered.
Zulu=Had size and power but that was it.
Werdum=Considered a poor man's Nogueira back then as he was jiu jitsu heavy but stand up was raw as well as toughness and fight iq at this point in his career. Werdum was not the world beater then as he's known now
Both matches against Barnett were close and out of both bouts, Barnett came closest to finishing(kneebar saved by bell) out of the two
I am glad you chimed in so that I could further dissect that particular year and the nominees.
While I still feel Big Nog/Barnett are better candidates than GSP/Chuck/Mirko, I will say I am going to edit 2006 and give it to Josh Barnett.
What he did against who that time period, reigns supreme in my opinion. What are your thoughts after seeing the pro's and con's of each?
I agree that Josh Barnett has the better wins in 2006. I forgot that the loss to CroCop was after the Big Nog war. Solid pick and insight.
Hey you pushed me to look deeper. Hi five broski!
Best HW? From 2003-2005 yea
Best fighter for all of 2002-2009? No way
Anderson and GSP had equally impressive wins, arguably more impressive
GSP particularly beat more well rounded opponents and Anderson finished most of his fights in devastating fashion
Fedor had a lot of easy fights sprinkled in between some really impressive wins, so no way he is fighter of the year for all of 2002-2009, maybe for 1 or 2 of those years
True. He should not be the fighter of the year for every year, but he did have an amazing run especially for a heavyweight.
What are ya'lls thoughts about 2001?
I nominated Matt Hughes, but Wanderlei Silva has a great case.
Matt Hughes fought 9 times winning 8, finishing 7, HOWEVER....
The only worthwhile name Hughes beat that year was one fighter, Carlos Newton and even that fight had major controversy.
Wanderlei Silva however, went 4-0, granted only half the amount of wins as Hughes, Wand never lost and beat Sakuraba not once but twice.
Sakuraba had a submission win over Carlos when they fought(epic match) and Wanderlei's wins were not controversial. Granted Wand only had one worthwhile name he beat in 2001, there was no controversy and he beat him twice.
How much emphasis do we put on Hughes beating/finishing twice as many guys but noting they were all weak competition?
DC 2018 FOTY
LHW Title, defense, and HW Championship.
2019 FOTY=Jorge Masvidal
Notable mentions: Henry Cejudo. Only fought 2 times but both were finishes, one against former champion TJ Dillashaw and 2nd win in higher weight class against Marlon Moraes to become 3rd fighter to be double champ at the same time.
Israel Adesyanya: 3-0 in 2019 with 1 finish. 3 high level opponents(Anderson Silva Kevin Gastelum, Robert Whitaker)(Cons were Anderson fight wasn't dominant, nor was the Gastelum fight)
2019 Jorge Masvidal-3 fights, 3 finishes, one record break. Darren Till=small mw/huge ww, Ben Askren(previously undefeated) knocked out in record time, Nate Diaz.
I think it's a bit silly to have a guy who never even fought for a (real) title over a guy who won an interim title, then a real title and beat an (admittedly elderly) former GOAT, or a guy who KOd the top two fighters from the division above the one he started the year at.
Don't get me wrong, Masvidal had a standout impressive year and it's tempting to reward activity. But the Cringe King's year was the most historically significant.
It's all subjective and I made sure to mention what he did, but besides agreeing with Jorge as FOTY, I think majority of fans also feel he's more deserving. What he did against Till and Askren was impressive. Diaz fight was a bonus.