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Lord Vutulaki

Banned
Jan 16, 2015
16,651
5,935
"

sibig99

62d
What's your opinion of the prison system after your firsthand experience with it

excothrowaway


60d
Absolute fucking horror show. I went in a Republican and came out a socialist.

In future American history books, mass incarceration will be discussed in the same tones as Jim Crow, the Red Scares, eugenics, Native American genocide and Japanese-American Internment. Mass incarceration has done unfathomable damage to countless lives.

Once somebody gets a felony on their record, it's as if our society has done everything possible to make it extremely difficult to rebuild their life and stay out of prison. No jobs, no social services, political disenfranchisement, etc. The brutal prison conditions also result in inmates developing coping mechanisms and survival strategies that are counterproductive to survival in the free world, such as having to react with violence to any perceived slight. Combined with extremely aggressive and militarized police, and there's no wonder the US has the highest incarceration rates on the planet.

The use of inmate slave labor is far more extensive than most people realize. In Louisiana prison inmates are used as personal servants by the governors, for Christ's sake - incarcerated butlers, shoe polishers, waiters, stylists, you name it. Watching guards on horseback making crowds of black people pick cotton in the sun at gunpoint at a prison built on an old slave plantation was quite the wakeup call.

Read Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow for a great rundown of the insidious ways mass incarceration fucks people over, disproportionately African Americans. Currently tired as hell after work, apologies if parts of this post are kind of all over the place and incoherent.
 

Ted Williams' head

It's freezing in here!
Sep 23, 2015
11,283
19,071
Meh I'm a punishment over rehabilitation guy (not saying I don't like rehabilitation, but it needs to take a back seat). Prisons should be a shitty place to be. If you break the law, it should have negative repercussions on your life. Sorry, dgaf, especially for a socialist.
 

Lord Vutulaki

Banned
Jan 16, 2015
16,651
5,935
Meh I'm a punishment over rehabilitation guy (not saying I don't like rehabilitation, but it needs to take a back seat). Prisons should be a shitty place to be. If you break the law, it should have negative repercussions on your life. Sorry, dgaf, especially for a socialist.
Slave labor isnt exactly in the spirit of a free market now is it?
 

Mix6APlix

The more you cry, the less I care.
Oct 20, 2015
12,918
13,408
The 10 days I spent in Cook County's finest correctional facility, in a 'dormitory fashion', 30 people iirc, one TV was always ESPN or the Pistons/Lakers finals and the other was on day time talk shows. At night time it switched over to movies which is the only reason I have watched all of LOTR.
 

Lord Vutulaki

Banned
Jan 16, 2015
16,651
5,935
The 10 days I spent in Cook County's finest correctional facility, in a 'dormitory fashion', 30 people iirc, one TV was always ESPN or the Pistons/Lakers finals and the other was on day time talk shows. At night time it switched over to movies which is the only reason I have watched all of LOTR.

What was the food like?
 

Ted Williams' head

It's freezing in here!
Sep 23, 2015
11,283
19,071
Slave labor isnt exactly in the spirit of a free market now is it?
Prisoners should be forced to do public service work like picking on garbage on the side of the highway, stuff that no law abiding citizen aught to sully their hands doing. Timmy Taxpayer spends big money to house and feed there Ne'er-do-well bums... might as well get some value for that dollar!
 

maurice

Posting Machine
Oct 21, 2015
1,359
2,299
I'm a punishment over rehabilitation guy....
If you break the law, it should have negative repercussions on your life....
Locking people up is an insanely expensive form of punishment. Free room, board, and healthcare but in shitty conditions? No thanks. Just wack 'em with a cane or something.

We should only lock people up if they're a danger to society. If we can "rehab" those people to make them less dangerous, then we absolutely should (and also stop making more of them). As a practical matter, time makes men less dangerous, because some dude who spent half his life in prison comes out with low-T and all sorts of other health problems.

^
The best arguments against extremely long prison sentences.
 

seekntruth

#keepladyhands
First 100
Jan 18, 2015
5,788
9,053
If only murica had an island we could expel all our violators too. Hmmm

Lemme think on this.
 

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
48,743
60,755
Prisons should be a shitty place to be. If you break the law, it should have negative repercussions on your life. Sorry, dgaf, especially for a socialist.
I agree with all that, but blackballing felons from improving their lives after they have done their time isn't productive.

As is, if a company hires a known felon they open themselves up to huge liabilities. Nearly all job applications have a "HAVE YOU EVER BEEN CONVICTED OF A FELONY?" box. If that box is clicked yes, it gets dropped into the "Thanks for applying but..." pile.

With no easy path to a decent legal income, felons are fairly short on options.
A single felony shouldn't be an automatic life sentence against success.
 
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Lord Vutulaki

Banned
Jan 16, 2015
16,651
5,935
I agree with all that, but blackballing felons from improving their lives after they have done their time isn't productive.

As is, if a company hires a known felon they open themselves up to huge liabilities. Nearly all job applications have a "HAVE YOU EVER BEEN CONVICTED OF A FELONY?" box. If that box is clicked yes, it gets dropped into the "Thanks for applying but..." pile.

With no legal income, felons are fairly short on options.
A felony shouldn't be an automatic life sentence against success.
This is correct and @Priesthorse sucks donkey cock
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,433
22,931
I have a lawyer friend (prosecutor) who is a prison abolitionist. He's been slowly but surely moving me over to his way of thinking. I do think there are some who should be segregated from society, particularly the very violent, but our criminal justice system is so biased and broken that the bad seems to outweigh the good. The way we dole out punishment or "rehabilitation" is basically broscience and it's even worse in private prisons. My fear though is that alternatives that get cooked up in the name of efficiency or effectiveness will actually end up being much worse. A Clockwork Orange is probably in our future.
 

SongExotic2

ATM 3 CHAMPION OF THE WORLD. #ASSBLOODS
First 100
Jan 16, 2015
41,791
54,679
I have a lawyer friend (prosecutor) who is a prison abolitionist. He's been slowly but surely moving me over to his way of thinking. I do think there are some who should be segregated from society, particularly the very violent, but our criminal justice system is so biased and broken that the bad seems to outweigh the good. The way we dole out punishment or "rehabilitation" is basically broscience and it's even worse in private prisons. My fear though is that alternatives that get cooked up in the name of efficiency or effectiveness will actually end up being much worse. A Clockwork Orange is probably in our future.
So you are saying you are up for a bit of the old in out in out?
 

Ted Williams' head

It's freezing in here!
Sep 23, 2015
11,283
19,071
I agree with all that, but blackballing felons from improving their lives after they have done their time isn't productive.

As is, if a company hires a known felon they open themselves up to huge liabilities. Nearly all job applications have a "HAVE YOU EVER BEEN CONVICTED OF A FELONY?" box. If that box is clicked yes, it gets dropped into the "Thanks for applying but..." pile.

With no easy path to a decent legal income, felons are fairly short on options.
A felony shouldn't be an automatic life sentence against success.
Yeah I think once you serve your time you should be able to start over, but at the same time how do we stop people from not hiring ex cons? It seems like a reasonable thing to discriminate against, especially if it was a violent or sex related crime.

I don't know what kind of programs they have for ex felons when they get out. It's a complicated subject I guess!
 

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
48,743
60,755
It seems like a reasonable thing to discriminate against, especially if it was a violent or sex related crime.
Agreed. Violent offenders are a different category.

I'm referring to the "war on drugs" casualties.
 

Ted Williams' head

It's freezing in here!
Sep 23, 2015
11,283
19,071
I'm referring to the "war on drugs" casualties.
Oh yeah, I don't think anyone should be arrested for drug possession for personal use anyway. The war on drugs has been a massive failure. Leave drug addicts alone, they're sick people not criminals, go after the dealers.
 

Wintermute

Putin is gay
Apr 24, 2015
5,816
9,190
Meh I'm a punishment over rehabilitation guy (not saying I don't like rehabilitation, but it needs to take a back seat). Prisons should be a shitty place to be. If you break the law, it should have negative repercussions on your life. Sorry, dgaf, especially for a socialist.
I feel it should only be punishment if they're not getting out- failing to regabilitate inmates that will eventually be released creates the situation described: they re-offend and become a drain on society.
 

Ted Williams' head

It's freezing in here!
Sep 23, 2015
11,283
19,071
I feel it should only be punishment if they're not getting out- failing to regabilitate inmates that will eventually be released creates the situation described: they re-offend and become a drain on society.
I'm all for rehabilitation, but like I said I believe it needs to take a back seat to punishment. Strict punishment needs to be first and foremost, looming over anyone thinking of committing a crime. Prison should be a miserable place to be - so miserable that those who get out will be incentivized to go straight. Death penalty for murderers, and speed the process up. Execute them within a few years. Yes, that sounds keen to me!
 

Wintermute

Putin is gay
Apr 24, 2015
5,816
9,190
I'm all for rehabilitation, but like I said I believe it needs to take a back seat to punishment. Strict punishment needs to be first and foremost, looming over anyone thinking of committing a crime. Prison should be a miserable place to be - so miserable that those who get out will be incentivized to go straight. Death penalty for murderers, and speed the process up. Execute them within a few years. Yes, that sounds keen to me!
I'd rather see public lashings. Public, corporal punishment may get better results than putting offenders in a cage with each other, then letting them back out into society so they can enact all the great habits they've picked up.

Jails should just be holding cells while trials are being conducted, and should be humane, but stoic. 3 squares and a cot is more than most people get on the street. Take your licks and move on. Putting criminals in school with each other for years at a time doesn't sound like a great plan for saving the savable.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,500
29,657
so basically you want to roll the clock back to the 1600s, and implement a Saudi penal system.

smh.