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M
member 3289
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Great minds something something
Being honest here...
I do think/believe Holyfield and Lennox are better and more accomplished than Tyson, however that being said when boxing games come out and they have legendary boxers and you can start careers with them, Mike Tyson is the first legend I start a career with. Something special about him, hard to put in words.
Now, speaking about boxing and boxing games.....Evander Holyfield's Real Deal Boxing for Sega Genisis is still to this day the best boxing game ever made. Progression/regression career. Stats build up early part, towards end of your career regardless of how well you perform in the ring, your skills start to dwindle, making it harder to compete(makes it realistic in my opinion).
You can damage fighters head/body and there's a feature that has boxer's faces get bloodied up, first eye, then nose, then mouth. If you time it right, a hook or uppercut punch can not only open a cut but burst blood out during the process.
Again, as you get older your skills decrease making the game still(even more) challenging at the end.
I do think/believe Holyfield and Lennox are better and more accomplished than Tyson, however that being said when boxing games come out and they have legendary boxers and you can start careers with them, Mike Tyson is the first legend I start a career with. Something special about him, hard to put in words.
Now, speaking about boxing and boxing games.....Evander Holyfield's Real Deal Boxing for Sega Genisis is still to this day the best boxing game ever made. Progression/regression career. Stats build up early part, towards end of your career regardless of how well you perform in the ring, your skills start to dwindle, making it harder to compete(makes it realistic in my opinion).
You can damage fighters head/body and there's a feature that has boxer's faces get bloodied up, first eye, then nose, then mouth. If you time it right, a hook or uppercut punch can not only open a cut but burst blood out during the process.
Again, as you get older your skills decrease making the game still(even more) challenging at the end.
Absolutely. Joe Frazier gave Ali fits. Tyson was Joe Frazier ++
"They called me a 'rapist' and a 'recluse'. I'm not a recluse." - Mike Tyson
Tyson Fury nearly took his own head off with an uppercut!! that is greatness......Tyson was sick because of things like this. He was a monster in every way at one point. His power was just unbelievable. He almost took a guys head right off with an uppercut. That shit wouldve popped if it was a normal man. He was incredibly skilled, incredibly damaged, incredibly taken advantage of by everyone and much more.
FACT.
And for all you haters....
Prime Tyson = Tyson with Gus in his corner. Tyson was never the same after Gus died.
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Boom, right on the money!
a young, prime Tyson was a sucker for a straight right.
If you're judging which guy had the best career, then yes. If you're looking at each fighter in their absolute prime & deciding who you'd make the favorite if they could hypothetically fight, then it's a much better debate. Tyson had a short prime where he showed as much speed as anyone ever had in the division & all time great power, problem is he didn't beat anyone that could be thought of as great when he fought them. Part of why Tyson debates still rage, who knows how a young Tyson would've fared
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You should re-read my post.
In terms of accomplishments, Tyson's resume will pale in comparison to a lot of other ATG HWs because he was an anomaly: he peaked very young and his best days were behind him when was in his mid 20s. He went to jail and that was the end of prime Tyson.
I never claimed Tyson had a better resume than Holyfield or Lewis's. He doesn't. You're asking me to argue something I never claimed. Maybe
@BirdWatcher can tell us which fallacy that is.The only claim I made was that Tyson's resume gets underrated by a lot of people who don't really follow boxing in any great detail.
People laugh at Michael Spinks - we're talking about a gold medalist, undefeated in the pros, moved up to HW, beat Larry Holmes 2x, beat the breaks off of 6'6" 240lb Gerry Cooney. This is a top quality opponent, and Mike obliterated him in 90 seconds.
People laugh at Larry Holmes, pointing out that he was 38. True, but we're talking about a guy who fought until he was 53. 4 years later, at the age of 42, he beats undefeated Ray Mercer (a guy you listed as a credible opponent for both Lennox and Holyfield), gives Holyfield hell, gives Oliver McCall hell 3 years later at 45. Tyson was the only guy to stop him.
So I don't disagree with you, I don't think Tyson should be mentioned anywhere near a guy like Lennox, but it's a much more nuanced discussion than just naming names without context. It's a dumbing down of a detailed discussion.
At first glance it seems like our traditional strawman at play. It's just as likely they never read you post or simply skimmed over then addressed a point that you already conceded.You should re-read my post.
In terms of accomplishments, Tyson's resume will pale in comparison to a lot of other ATG HWs because he was an anomaly: he peaked very young and his best days were behind him when was in his mid 20s. He went to jail and that was the end of prime Tyson.
I never claimed Tyson had a better resume than Holyfield or Lewis's. He doesn't. You're asking me to argue something I never claimed. Maybe
The only claim I made was that Tyson's resume gets underrated by a lot of people who don't really follow boxing in any great detail.
People laugh at Michael Spinks - we're talking about a gold medalist, undefeated in the pros, moved up to HW, beat Larry Holmes 2x, beat the breaks off of 6'6" 240lb Gerry Cooney. This is a top quality opponent, and Mike obliterated him in 90 seconds.
People laugh at Larry Holmes, pointing out that he was 38. True, but we're talking about a guy who fought until he was 53. 4 years later, at the age of 42, he beats undefeated Ray Mercer (a guy you listed as a credible opponent for both Lennox and Holyfield), gives Holyfield hell, gives Oliver McCall hell 3 years later at 45. Tyson was the only guy to stop him.
So I don't disagree with you, I don't think Tyson should be mentioned anywhere near a guy like Lennox, but it's a much more nuanced discussion than just naming names without context. It's a dumbing down of a detailed discussion.
I agree with most of what you're saying about both Holmes and Spinks, I've rated those 2 victories as the best of his career for a long time, Spinks was absolutely phenomenal and Tyson made him look like a deer in the headlights. The weight difference is undoubtedly an issue though, you're glossing over the fact that in almost all of Tyson's fights he weighed 200 lbs or more whereas Spinks only rose above 180 lbs six times and five of those contests where his last 5 fights all fought above 210 lbs, the ones you mentioned. (the earlier fight was at 185)You should re-read my post.
In terms of accomplishments, Tyson's resume will pale in comparison to a lot of other ATG HWs because he was an anomaly: he peaked very young and his best days were behind him when was in his mid 20s. He went to jail and that was the end of prime Tyson.
I never claimed Tyson had a better resume than Holyfield or Lewis's. He doesn't. You're asking me to argue something I never claimed. Maybe
The only claim I made was that Tyson's resume gets underrated by a lot of people who don't really follow boxing in any great detail.
People laugh at Michael Spinks - we're talking about a gold medalist, undefeated in the pros, moved up to HW, beat Larry Holmes 2x, beat the breaks off of 6'6" 240lb Gerry Cooney. This is a top quality opponent, and Mike obliterated him in 90 seconds.
People laugh at Larry Holmes, pointing out that he was 38. True, but we're talking about a guy who fought until he was 53. 4 years later, at the age of 42, he beats undefeated Ray Mercer (a guy you listed as a credible opponent for both Lennox and Holyfield), gives Holyfield hell, gives Oliver McCall hell 3 years later at 45. Tyson was the only guy to stop him.
So I don't disagree with you, I don't think Tyson should be mentioned anywhere near a guy like Lennox, but it's a much more nuanced discussion than just naming names without context. It's a dumbing down of a detailed discussion.
agree on Tyson.
All reasonable people should be able to agree that Larry Holmes is the best HW fighter of all time.
Holmes came off of 2 years of drinking, partying, and touring with his blues band after retirement to put in a 2 month camp and fight Tyson
So who do you think are Tyson's best two wins?
Spinks and Tucker.
but Tucker fought Tyson with a broken hand, so it's a lot less impressive.