Lets begin.
You've significantly changed my message, so let me simplify it.
As I've stated over and over, Rousey is an athletic phenom, olympian, and I've gone so far as made other threads stating that no one other than Rousey could have done what she did. She had the right age, timing in the sport, and background. So lets not add any pretense that I'm just hating on her at all. I shouldn't have to even disclaim that, there you go. You made my post something it wasn't.
My point is that Rousey's greatness did not come from Edmond and as she advanced in her career, he went from adding minimal to taking her opportunity to move too a proper elite camp. Rousey is too talented for Edmond and once she learned two punches from him, that was time to move on.
Things you address:
Game planning. Lets use the Holm fight since that's what we were discussing. I've watched about 10 Ronda fights since the Holm fight and I've got access to this one too. From reddit, an accurate recap of the difference between game planning and nothing but platitudes:
Rousey's Corner
- Edmond's advice during the fight is completely braindead. He's constantly praising her and telling her that she's doing well, regardless of how many time Holm smashes that straight left into Rousey's mouth.
- His main piece of substantive advice is to shout "Discipline!" and to tell her to keep her hands up. (Thanks, coach!)
- Whenever Ronda is in serious trouble, Edmond says absolutely nothing. Nothing. When Ronda's stunned, he goes silent. When Holm takes Ronda down, he goes silent. In the last ~15 seconds of the fight, as Ronda's flailing around, then getting stunned, and then getting kicked in the head, it's just dead air. This is not a coach who has helpful things to say when the chips are down. Just brutal.
Holm's Corner
- Listening to Holm's corner puts the terribleness of Rousey's corner work into perspective. Izzy Martinez does a lot of useless positive screaming, but he also says some helpful stuff and calls out some specific instructions in tense moments. Almost everything from Wink and Jackson is substantive and helpful.
- Jackson said something hard to discern that sounds very interesting. They're describing some of Holm's excellent work in and getting out of the clinch, and Jackson says: "remember, don't mention that behind the head [mumble]" to anybody. I can't tell what, exactly, he's referring to. But it sounds like it's supposed to be a secret! Any thoughts?
That's one example of the difference in a world class team and Ronda's who tells her she's doing great and yells platitudes. Holm circled and head kicked like she does in many fights.
There was no plan for it. If there was, there is ZERO evidence since Edmond (remember, that's who we are talking about) failed to redirect to mention any plan at anytime.
Where are all the transformations and smart game planning evidence? We can point to Jackson fighters one after another after another that adapt to the fight before and during.
Ronda has the tools and physicality to beat Holm. She has the wrong coaches to do it.
Who said it went to shit? Without a doubt its become significantly less dynamic. She isn't chaining 3, 4, 5 throws to funnel into that takedown.
I've watched
@Leigh point out the weaknesses in the repeat uchimata that Ronda favors. And she has moved from chaining fake attempts to move the plane to using a bullrush with a jab to get the opponent on the backpedal. In no way is her Judo being displayed in any recent fights at near the level she was 3+ years ago.
My statement is that her Judo is less dynamic and it is objectively. Is that because she can let it loose with the presence, athleticism she has over her competition, or what? Who knows. But just watch the fights and you'll see the deemphasizing of Judo combinations.
If you will get back to reading what I posted, you'll see I was clearly talking only about the Holm/ Ronda fight. The point being that Ronda has been with Edmond for YEARS. He is a supposed "boxing expert". The point is that NOTHING in the striking end of Holly
during the Ronda fight was so over the top magical as to make it a fight of elite striking versus elite striking. It was Holly pushing a game plan (yes circling, go watch the BJJSCOUT video Ronda's MMA career and see others have success circling until they get on the backpedal and stop -- its on youtube and I've posted in the forum) because Ronda was unprepared for something new. There was no amazing head movement from Holm, there was no incredible matrix footwork. Holm wasn't doing an Ali or Cruz or Dillashaw or Aldo or McGregor impression. She kept moving solid and I'm sure her punches landed much harder than the average WMMA athlete could land on the lateral movement. But short of that, there was some incredible striking barrier preventing Ronda from showcasing her skills learned from Edmond. Those skills learned from Edmond just don't exist further than what we see.
Again, the point is EDMOND and not Ronda. If Edmond is such a striking genius and Ronda is so improved from his tutelage where is Ronda's great striking after 5 years of working on it? Where are the other strikers that Edmond has built to show off his training? Ludwig and Jackson and others can point to their examples.
Ronda spent 20 years learning Judo. She then was immediately successful in MMA when, in his own words, Edmond refused to train her.That wasn't Edmond's doing.
Edmond made her a star? It wasn't her 20 years of Judo? It wasn't her manager that paid her lights, got her the SI swimsuit shoots, sent out $10,000's in promos to get her into the UFC?
Edmond's benefit: Suspect striking training.
Edmond's cost: Who knows how much cost for a guy that has enough money to bet 200k at a time but is bankrupt. Time at the prime of her career. Bad habits that will take others time to undo.
Maybe Edmond isn't a bad coach. But he's not an elite one. And short of no striking training, I'm not sure there's any evidence that Edmond's inputs are a benefit.
Ronda hasn't succeeded BECAUSE of Edmond. She succeeded due to her own work and very unique background. She succeeded IN SPITE of him in many cases.
Ronda Rousey would have been a star and done the same or better in any other major MMA camp. She should have moved a couple years ago. She should move now.
