Rory McDonald on MMAHour, Free Agency Announcment

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Aljo isn't the needle mover Rory is. He will be someday, but he isn't yet.

That's why I said if they didn't go after Aljo they won't go after Rory. They can't afford legitimate, current needle movers. Benson is the closest that they've gone, though he fit their needs a little more (I also said for weeks on this site that Benson would go to Bellator and Aljo would stay with the UFC.) Aljo is a future needle-mover who I'm hearing didn't end up with a lot of money in his new UFC contract and Bellator didn't go after him. Why? Because their business model isn't about young, UFC- ready top level talent. They just can't afford to sustain it and have any kind of depth.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

I'm also guessing that they're letting him test the waters because they agree with me, and don't think that Bellator will offer him much. They let Bellator low-ball him and then they don't have to pay him what he's worth. If they were gonna give him $125,000 and $125,000 but Bellator only offers him $50,000 and $50,000, UFC can get away with $70,000 and $70,000. This "competition" could end up working in the UFC's favor at the expense of the sport.

 

[TheEmperorRises]

Why? Because their business model isn't about young, UFC- ready top level talent. They just can't afford to sustain it and have any kind of depth.

Wrote this out a while back and keep it handy anytime that accusation gets thrown out. Deep breath and...

Anastasia Yankova
Rebecca Ruth
Lena Ovchynnikova
Keri Melendez
Bruna Ellen
Bruna Vargas
Kenya Miranda
Talita Noguirea
Eduardo Dantes
Darrion Caldwell
Marcos Galvao
Steve Garcia
Joe Taimanglo
Sirwan Kakai
Daniel Straus
Patricio Pitbull
Goiti Yamauchi
Bubba Jenkins
Emmanuel Sanchez
Jordan Parsons
John Teixeira
A.J McKee
Georgi Karakhanyan
Justin Lawrence
Isao Kobayashi
Aaron Pico
Will Brooks
Michael Chandler
Patricky Pitbull
Marcin Held
Josh Thomson
Dave Jansen
Brandon Girtz
Caveman Rickels
Derek Anderson
Brent Primus
Adam Piccolotti
Andrey Koreshkov
Benson Henderson
Michael Venom Page
Douglas Lima
Brennan Ward
Rickey Rainey
Andre Fialho
Chidi Njokuani
Chris Honeycutt
Fernando Gonzalez
Chris Harris
Rafael Carvalho
Ed Ruth
Brandon Halsey
Ben Reiter
Hisaki Kato
Neiman Gracie
Abdul Razak Alhassan
Neal Ewing
Julian Marquez
Liam McGeary
Phil Davis
Linton Vassell
King Mo
Phillipe Lins
Vitaly Minakov
Tony Johnson
Vinicius Spartan
Augusto Sakai
Tyrell Fortune
Dmitriy Sosnovskiy
Javy Ayala
Raphael Butler

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Wrote this out a while back and keep it handy anytime that accusation gets thrown out. Deep breath and...

Anastasia Yankova
Rebecca Ruth
Lena Ovchynnikova
Keri Melendez
Bruna Ellen
Bruna Vargas
Kenya Miranda
Talita Noguirea
Eduardo Dantes
Darrion Caldwell
Marcos Galvao
Steve Garcia
Joe Taimanglo
Sirwan Kakai
Daniel Straus
Patricio Pitbull
Goiti Yamauchi
Bubba Jenkins
Emmanuel Sanchez
Jordan Parsons
John Teixeira
A.J McKee
Georgi Karakhanyan
Justin Lawrence
Isao Kobayashi
Aaron Pico
Will Brooks
Michael Chandler
Patricky Pitbull
Marcin Held
Josh Thomson
Dave Jansen
Brandon Girtz
Caveman Rickels
Derek Anderson
Brent Primus
Adam Piccolotti
Andrey Koreshkov
Benson Henderson
Michael Venom Page
Douglas Lima
Brennan Ward
Rickey Rainey
Andre Fialho
Chidi Njokuani
Chris Honeycutt
Fernando Gonzalez
Chris Harris
Rafael Carvalho
Ed Ruth
Brandon Halsey
Ben Reiter
Hisaki Kato
Neiman Gracie
Abdul Razak Alhassan
Neal Ewing
Julian Marquez
Liam McGeary
Phil Davis
Linton Vassell
King Mo
Phillipe Lins
Vitaly Minakov
Tony Johnson
Vinicius Spartan
Augusto Sakai
Tyrell Fortune
Dmitriy Sosnovskiy
Javy Ayala
Raphael Butler

Haha! Let me rephrase, because you are correct.

Their business model isn't about young, UFC-ready talent that is well known by the public. Business-wise, it doesn't matter that all of those people are amazing talents. Sterling isn't more valuable than a bunch of them, but he is more well-known. Bellator having a monster like Will Brooks doesn't legitimize them in the public eye at all because they've never heard of Will Brooks/he's never fought in the UFC. They've heard of Aljo or Rory though, and they know those guys are really young and full of talent. It would mean Bellator winning a battle that UFC would obviously rather win themselves, so the UFC couldn't let that happen. I'm not saying that I like how it is, but this is how it is. Public perception is the game here.

 

[TheEmperorRises]

Haha! Let me rephrase, because you are correct.

Their business model isn't about young, UFC-ready talent that is well known by the public. Business-wise, it doesn't matter that all of those people are amazing talents. Sterling isn't more valuable than a bunch of them, but he is more well-known. Bellator having a monster like Will Brooks doesn't legitimize them in the public eye at all because they've never heard of Will Brooks/he's never fought in the UFC. They've heard of Aljo or Rory though, and they know those guys are really young and full of talent. It would mean Bellator winning a battle that UFC would obviously rather win themselves, so the UFC couldn't let that happen. I'm not saying that I like how it is, but this is how it is. Public perception is the game here.

*shrugs* not known to the public yet- their ratings are on the upswing though. And that's how you become well known to the public.

My point is they're old like the San Antonio Spurs are old- only if you're not paying attention.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

*shrugs* not known to the public yet- their ratings are on the upswing though. And that's how you become well known to the public.

My point is they're old like the San Antonio Spurs are old- only if you're not paying attention.

You're right, but unfortunately, they aren't paying attention unless Kimbo is fighting. They are absolutely worthy of being known to the public, but since they aren't they are not going to be treated as legitimate stars. Bellator's business model cannot afford to make their roster deep with known names at this point. They can get a couple at a discount, but guys like Rory and Aljo won't fall into that category. I wish it was different too.

 

[TheEmperorRises]

You're right, but unfortunately, they aren't paying attention unless Kimbo is fighting. They are absolutely worthy of being known to the public, but since they aren't they are not going to be treated as legitimate stars. Bellator's business model cannot afford to make their roster deep with known names at this point. They can get a couple at a discount, but guys like Rory and Aljo won't fall into that category. I wish it was different too.

They peaked around 1 million for Caldwell vs Warren. I'm pretty sure everyone who saw that ass kicking will remember his name and be curious enough to watch him fight again.

Pitbull vs Weichel was co-main for Kimbo vs Shamrock and Pitbull vs Texieria is co-main for Benson vs Koreshkov.

Making stars takes time and changing perception definitely doesn't happen overnight, but I think they're on the right track.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

They peaked around 1 million for Caldwell vs Warren. I'm pretty sure everyone who saw that ass kicking will remember his name and be curious enough to watch him fight again.

Pitbull vs Weichel was co-main for Kimbo vs Shamrock and Pitbull vs Texieria is co-main for Benson vs Koreshkov.

Making stars takes time and changing perception definitely doesn't happen overnight, but I think they're on the right track.

Do me a favor. The next time you see a person in public wearing UFC gear or talking about the UFC, ask him what Caldwell's first name is. Ask them who Joe Warren is. Viewership on free TV doesn't equal notoriety in the names of the individual fighters.

I am not saying they will never get there. You are now arguing something outside of our original conversation. You do have to build your guys up, but you don't do that by investing a large chunk of your money in Rory Macdonald. You get guys like Benson, a former champ who by misfortune and the current jam at the top of both of his divisions was kind of out of the picture and perhaps undervalued by the UFC. He was worth more to Bellator than he would have been to the UFC. That is not the case for Rory or Aljo.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

They peaked around 1 million for Caldwell vs Warren. I'm pretty sure everyone who saw that ass kicking will remember his name and be curious enough to watch him fight again.

Pitbull vs Weichel was co-main for Kimbo vs Shamrock and Pitbull vs Texieria is co-main for Benson vs Koreshkov.

Making stars takes time and changing perception definitely doesn't happen overnight, but I think they're on the right track.

Also, Kimbo vs. Shamrock peaked at 2.4 million live viewers and 2.9 million DVRs. How did that do for Pitbull or Weichel in terms of making them household names? Unfortunately, a large part of the public does not care about Bellator outside of their senior division, and until that changes the young, known contender prospects will be going to the UFC in my opinion.

 

[kneeblock]

Yes they did pick up Mitrione, and I've been saying they would for weeks. That one was clear. I'm not going to bet you, but Zuffa will match and he will accept, in my opinion. Why would the bet have been canceled if there was no offer? Haha

If Bellator makes a big offer, UFC won't match. The question is whether they think Rory is another guy who will put them over the top.

Mitrione has the TUF cred which means eyeballs. He's also a fairly exciting fighter. Bendo has crossover into Asian markets and has done well there. Also a former champ, so definitely worth the investment. Tito and Rampage were no brainers for similar reasons. The fiasco with Dada and Kimbo and Ken and Royce actually ended up paying off despite all the post-facto haterade. The big question is whether Bellator wants a share of the Canadian market and thinks they can hype Rory in his own right instead of as GSP's heir apparent (which is how the UFC always pushed him). The fact that they're giving Bendo the WW title shot probably means they're done investing in WW, but Rory would be a great pickup. If they give the right dollar amount, I expect the UFC would have no problems letting Rory go for a year or two since he's so young and not beating Robbie it seems.

 

[Ranger]

Haven't read through every comment, but I can see the UFC letting go Rory. They let go of Hendo; I think the reason why Coker never pursued Aljo and Overeem is because he knew that they just wanted to kick ass and probably just leave and go back to the UFC. Same reason why they aren't giving Will Brooks any big fights because they know that he wants to leave and why would they let their most skilled champions go? Especially if he beats a UFC guy; they would be losing a high profile guy from their company. If Rory did leave he would probably only leave only if he felt like the UFC would treat like the way he should be treated. I could see him fighting tough competition in either Bellator or One....Especially if Jake Shields goes to Bellator which I think he will.

 

[Deleted member 1]

I doubt it. I'd say this is fighters realizing they can bid UFC and Bellator against each other and get more $$$

But isn't the UFC the one not making the first pitch? The OP implies the UFC isn't even making an initial offer, just waiting for a counter offer.

 

[TheEmperorRises]

Do me a favor. The next time you see a person in public wearing UFC gear or talking about the UFC, ask him what Caldwell's first name is. Ask them who Joe Warren is. Viewership on free TV doesn't equal notoriety in the names of the individual fighters.

Well of course they won't know- you could ask those same casuals who Joanna Champion is and they'll look at you dumb founded and then ask when she's gonna fight Ronda Rousey.

Amongst my family and friends, they know who to go to with any MMA questions. When my casual friends come to me asking "What good fights are coming up?" More and more lately Bellator factors into that answer.

If they were able to sign Rory, I wouldn't ask if they knew who he was- I'd buy everyone a round of beer, sit them down and make them watch Rory vs Lawler 2 and explain exactly why it was a big deal.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Well of course they won't know- you could ask those same casuals who Joanna Champion is and they'll look at you dumb founded and then ask when she's gonna fight Ronda Rousey.

Amongst my family and friends, they know who to go to with any MMA questions. When my casual friends come to me asking "What good fights are coming up?" More and more lately Bellator factors into that answer.

If they were able to sign Rory, I wouldn't ask if they knew who he was- I'd buy everyone a round of beer, sit them down and make them watch Rory vs Lawler 2 and explain exactly why it was a big deal.

Yes, it would be a big deal. It will not happen though, because they will not invest the type of money that it would take to land a fighter like Rory. Doesn't fit the bill, as I have been saying. I really enjoy your passion for Bellator and I hope you know that I am rooting for them, I just don't think it is time for them to start grabbing guys like Rory. It'll cost them more than it'll help, especially since the UFC will undoubtedly be very interested in signing him.

 

[Punch]

Well of course they won't know- you could ask those same casuals who Joanna Champion is and they'll look at you dumb founded and then ask when she's gonna fight Ronda Rousey.

Amongst my family and friends, they know who to go to with any MMA questions. When my casual friends come to me asking "What good fights are coming up?" More and more lately Bellator factors into that answer.

If they were able to sign Rory, I wouldn't ask if they knew who he was- I'd buy everyone a round of beer, sit them down and make them watch Rory vs Lawler 2 and explain exactly why it was a big deal.

I talked about @TheBigPygmy/JustinWren and bellator to me folks last weekend for about a half hour. Talked to the exterminator about them today. It takes a while to turn a ship around compared to a dinghy, and bellator is doing it big lately. Bjorn set them back a couple years imo.

Mma is not ufc. Ufc claimed that they had all the top talent but that, much like so many of their other well crafted pr bullshit, is simply that. Bullshit. Strikeforce proved that. Their guys are champions or at the least top contenders.

There's one thing that the ufc pr team is really good at, and it's making people believe that they are the only big dogs around. They aren't. That the buyouts of other organizations that folded were due to them. They weren't. That the ufc is the NFL of mma. It isn't.

I for one don't like people trying to sucker me or the fans of this great sport.

 

[Ranger]

I think another thing to consider is that look who the UFC is matching Rory against they are probably betting on Wonderboy to win so if Rory loses that he will accept the offer that they are making him now. But it would be interesting to see if the UFC will look to grab Rory for how much money Rory wants even if he loses.

I dont think they will thats why they are giving him a tough fight.

 

[TheEmperorRises]

But isn't the UFC the one not making the first pitch? The OP implies the UFC isn't even making an initial offer, just waiting for a counter offer.

Right- my point is they've negotiated with Rory and he didn't like the initial number the UFC gave him. So instead of just taking it, he's going to see if Bellator offers something more in line with what he feels he's worth. And if so, the UFC can match. But he'll have already won.

 

[Punch]

I think another thing to consider is that look who the UFC is matching Rory against they are probably betting on Wonderboy to win so if Rory loses that he will accept the offer that they are making him now. But it would be interesting to see if the UFC will look to grab Rory for how much money Rory wants even if he loses.

I dont think they will thats why they are giving him tough fight.

They have done this before, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case now.

 

[Ranger]

Wrote this out a while back and keep it handy anytime that accusation gets thrown out. Deep breath and...

Anastasia Yankova
Rebecca Ruth
Lena Ovchynnikova
Keri Melendez
Bruna Ellen
Bruna Vargas
Kenya Miranda
Talita Noguirea
Eduardo Dantes
Darrion Caldwell
Marcos Galvao
Steve Garcia
Joe Taimanglo
Sirwan Kakai
Daniel Straus
Patricio Pitbull
Goiti Yamauchi
Bubba Jenkins
Emmanuel Sanchez
Jordan Parsons
John Teixeira
A.J McKee
Georgi Karakhanyan
Justin Lawrence
Isao Kobayashi
Aaron Pico
Will Brooks
Michael Chandler
Patricky Pitbull
Marcin Held
Josh Thomson
Dave Jansen
Brandon Girtz
Caveman Rickels
Derek Anderson
Brent Primus
Adam Piccolotti
Andrey Koreshkov
Benson Henderson
Michael Venom Page
Douglas Lima
Brennan Ward
Rickey Rainey
Andre Fialho
Chidi Njokuani
Chris Honeycutt
Fernando Gonzalez
Chris Harris
Rafael Carvalho
Ed Ruth
Brandon Halsey
Ben Reiter
Hisaki Kato
Neiman Gracie
Abdul Razak Alhassan
Neal Ewing
Julian Marquez
Liam McGeary
Phil Davis
Linton Vassell
King Mo
Phillipe Lins
Vitaly Minakov
Tony Johnson
Vinicius Spartan
Augusto Sakai
Tyrell Fortune
Dmitriy Sosnovskiy
Javy Ayala
Raphael Butler

This is off topic but do you mind linking me to the thread you posted this in?

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

I talked about @TheBigPygmy/JustinWren and bellator to me folks last weekend for about a half hour. Talked to the exterminator about them today. It takes a while to turn a ship around compared to a dinghy, and bellator is doing it big lately. Bjorn set them back a couple years imo.

Mma is not ufc. Ufc claimed that they had all the top talent but that, much like so many of their other well crafted pr bullshit, is simply that. Bullshit. Strikeforce proved that. Their guys are champions or at the least top contenders.

There's one thing that the ufc pr team is really good at, and it's making people believe that they are the only big dogs around. They aren't. That the buyouts of other organizations that folded were due to them. They weren't. That the ufc is the NFL of mma. It isn't.

I for one don't like people trying to sucker me or the fans of this great sport.

I agree, and I am not disputing any of that. I am being honest about the current state of things, nothing more. I like Bellator, I just don't think Rory is what they need right now financially.

 

[Punch]

I agree, and I am not disputing any of that. I am being honest about the current state of things, nothing more. I like Bellator, I just don't think Rory is what they need right now financially.

I have very little knowledge about bellator's ledgers. But with an allotment from Viacom (even with Viacom's diminished success in recent years) they more than likely have a decent pool of money to draw from.

You could be right though. They have made a lot of recent signings.

 

[TheEmperorRises]

This is off topic but do you mind linking me to the thread you posted this in?

Sure.

Coker is absolutely brilliant | Page 2 | The MMA Community Forum

 

[Punch]

Sure.

Coker is absolutely brilliant | Page 2 | The MMA Community Forum

You went straight Legendary status imo in that thread.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

I have very little knowledge about bellator's ledgers. But with an allotment from Viacom (even with Viacom's diminished success in recent years) they more than likely have a decent pool of money to draw from.

You could be right though. They have made a lot of recent signings.

I haven't seen them either, but from what I have heard Kimbo has kept them alive recently. Look at WSOF. They don't have the depth that Bellator does by any stretch but in the public opinion it's close. The difference is the freakshow fights at this point, and those aren't very often.

 

[Punch]

I haven't seen them either, but from what I have heard Kimbo has kept them alive recently. Look at WSOF. They don't have the depth that Bellator does by any stretch but in the public opinion it's close. The difference is the freakshow fights at this point, and those aren't very often.

The presentation is better in bellator too. The lights are brighter in the cage for example.

I don't really consider myself a "hardcore" fan, but I'm definitely no casual. It's such a double edged sword when the product is geared towards strictly one or the other.

I don't consider wsof quite on par bellator just yet, but I'd love to see cross promotion or a merger.