General Singapore Summit

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Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,901
I find the idea that North Korea should be giving anything up in order to have a discussion exceptionalist and symptomatic of a Cold War style of diplomacy. This isn't much different from when Obama opened the pathway to Cuba, which his opponents derided (and Trump largely reversed).
Cuba did not have nuclear weapons for 50 years when Obama initiated normalization.
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
44,116
89,900
I'm very fascinated by the narratives of Trump fans who think this is meaningfu
Are you implying its not meaningful? That's a pretty strong statement. Or just that meaningful hasn't been backed up yet?

The meeting is tantamount to Nixon meeting Mao, granted less future potential from the DPRK versus China. But the parallel is appropriate in the sense of normalizing relations.
I can't imagine that this isn't meaningful, even if expectations for an overnight change should be tempered.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,901
Are you implying its not meaningful? That's a pretty strong statement. Or just that meaningful hasn't been backed up yet?

The meeting is tantamount to Nixon meeting Mao, granted less future potential from the DPRK versus China. But the parallel is appropriate in the sense of normalizing relations.
I can't imagine that this isn't meaningful, even if expectations for an overnight change should be tempered.
Nixon saw China as a strategic play of reducing Soviet alliances.

China and Russia see North Korea as a strategic play of reducing American alliances. Pretty sure North Korea also wants that but not before taking any freebies and goodwill gestures you may send their way.
 

Shinkicker

For what it's worth
Jan 30, 2016
10,391
13,863
Nixon saw China as a strategic play of reducing Soviet alliances.

China and Russia see North Korea as a strategic play of reducing American alliances. Pretty sure North Korea also wants that but not before taking any freebies and goodwill gestures you may send their way.
How old are you again?
 

Shinkicker

For what it's worth
Jan 30, 2016
10,391
13,863
Nixon saw China as a strategic play of reducing Soviet alliances.

China and Russia see North Korea as a strategic play of reducing American alliances. Pretty sure North Korea also wants that but not before taking any freebies and goodwill gestures you may send their way.
I want to know where a young Korean female gets her learning on world politics.
In Korea, college, self initiated research....?
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
22,915
Are you implying its not meaningful? That's a pretty strong statement. Or just that meaningful hasn't been backed up yet?

The meeting is tantamount to Nixon meeting Mao, granted less future potential from the DPRK versus China. But the parallel is appropriate in the sense of normalizing relations.
I can't imagine that this isn't meaningful, even if expectations for an overnight change should be tempered.
I'm contesting the ways in which it's meaningful. There is literally no comparison to draw between Nixon's visit to China, for example. At present this is mostly rhetorical diplomacy. We have yet to see what it will do to alter geopolitics or what it means especially on the penninsula. I think opponents of Trump have tried to cast it as an empty or ill thought out gesture while his fans have tried to cast it as transformative. Diplomacy is a messy business and there's still a lot of work to be done. Symbollically, at least, the meeting has great power around the world.

Worth following the twitter and writings of Robert Kelly (Dad whose kids trolled him live on CNN) for some sober analysis.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
22,915
Most Koreans do not care and have excused the North as a lost cause.

Why should we thank Moon for initiating something that the majority of his citizens don't want?
Do you have any public opinion evidence to back up that claim? I've been interested to see some empirical work on exactly this question.
 

Zeph

TMMAC Addict
Jan 22, 2015
24,355
31,946
Are you implying its not meaningful? That's a pretty strong statement. Or just that meaningful hasn't been backed up yet?

The meeting is tantamount to Nixon meeting Mao, granted less future potential from the DPRK versus China. But the parallel is appropriate in the sense of normalizing relations.
I can't imagine that this isn't meaningful, even if expectations for an overnight change should be tempered.
The normalization of relations is meaningful in and of itself, but I doubt any meaningfuly disarmament happens as a result.
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,901
Do you have any public opinion evidence to back up that claim? I've been interested to see some empirical work on exactly this question.
Only 31 percent of South Korean households turned in to watch the summit. It was a bigger deal in America than it was in South Korea. Most younger people don't care or want reunification and the people who are older people who either remember Korea as a whole or lived through post war effects on the peninsula and believe a normalization/reunification is the only way to ensure peace. I would like reunification but I'm skeptical it will happen resulting from Moon or this summit.

South Koreans skeptical of North Korea's promises; want to see proof
 

Banchan

The Most Dangerous Dame
Oct 2, 2017
4,515
2,901
I'm contesting the ways in which it's meaningful. There is literally no comparison to draw between Nixon's visit to China, for example. At present this is mostly rhetorical diplomacy. We have yet to see what it will do to alter geopolitics or what it means especially on the penninsula. I think opponents of Trump have tried to cast it as an empty or ill thought out gesture while his fans have tried to cast it as transformative. Diplomacy is a messy business and there's still a lot of work to be done. Symbollically, at least, the meeting has great power around the world.

Worth following the twitter and writings of Robert Kelly (Dad whose kids trolled him live on CNN) for some sober analysis.
Kelly is a vocal opponent of Trump and regularly suggests the president is stupid and doesn't know anything about Korea which I have already debunked. He has insightful analysis but he's not without his personal political leanings either.
 

SongExotic2

ATM 3 CHAMPION OF THE WORLD. #ASSBLOODS
First 100
Jan 16, 2015
41,872
54,095
Can we take a minute to appreciate that this is a beautiful man and the hate here for Chris is fueled by jealous right wing haters? Can you tell me you wouldn't?



Looks like a third gender second spirit pansexual