General so much for not drawing any red lines...

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drjones

Banned
Apr 25, 2016
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i have no idea how trump supporters are rationalizing this... he said "no more threats or fire and fury", NK immediately issued a very specific direct threat, so now today trump said no more threats again or they will pay very quickly, and this time he used the word "utter" so there is no doubt he is referring to verbal threats not just military attack... so now when NK issues more threats in a few hours are trump supporters just going to keep cheering him on for talking tough and laying down the law with NK?
 

drjones

Banned
Apr 25, 2016
761
840
well if you are a fan of this approach to north korea you should be happy to learn we are now considering military intervention in venezuela...
 

drjones

Banned
Apr 25, 2016
761
840
does it ever get embarrassing when you never have anything intelligent to add but you just cant control yourself and you keep on posting nonsense? i suppose it doesnt if you arent smart enough to even realize it...

"i can post things! im smart, not like everybody says, like dumb! im smart and i want respect!"
 

Disciplined Galt

Disciplina et Frugalis
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
26,030
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does it ever get embarrassing when you never have anything intelligent to add but you just cant control yourself and you keep on posting nonsense? i suppose it doesnt if you arent smart enough to even realize it...

"i can post things! im smart, not like everybody says, like dumb! im smart and i want respect!"
Yeah, I should make more effort.
 

drjones

Banned
Apr 25, 2016
761
840

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
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i guess i havent learned yet how to tell when the president is full of shit and when he is being a straight shooter that tells it like it is with tough talk and really means it... lol
I didn't give you either of those options so I'm not sure why you say that. Framing it like that is missing the entire point.

Do you think the USA policy was ever different than, "I won't take any option off the table?"

Nothing has changed. It's the same policy as always.

Trump dare speak the reality that has always been and always will be.

Frankly, I'm shocked the Venezuela dictator failed to capitalize on the statement for some good anti-imperial propoganda. That would have been the smart response.

Instead both N Korea and Venezuela have given rattled responses that just validated Trump's approach.

Speaking of rattled...


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/Rosie/status/896073626675429376
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
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Dec 31, 2014
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Maduro should have never tried to call. Flips the power to Trump.


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/896327553727778816



I'd rather see Trump speak broadly once and then let his cabinet permeate the message that "in all conflicts we seek diplomacy, but in all conflicts will always consider the most powerful military the planet has ever seen as an option. "

I found Obama's comfortable inaction as risky as I find constant intervention. Each interaction needs a custom solution. Again, I'm kind of shocked at Venezuela's response here.
 

drjones

Banned
Apr 25, 2016
761
840
I didn't give you either of those options so I'm not sure why you say that.
i wasnt aware i had to ask what my reply options were before posting ;)

btw your responses arent exactly clear, trump's advisers have directly stated in the past that we are specifically not considering any military option, trump said he would not rule it out - which unless you just want to quibble does imply that it is being considered, it is up for consideration, it is a possibility. your post seems to clearly acknowledge that, yet you also say that we are not considering it and nothing has changed... ummm ok?
 

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
47,116
59,075
Interesting...

To be specific, the big move came Monday as China agreed to ban imports of North Korean iron, lead, and coal as part of new U.N. sanctions on Pyongyang. That's hitting Kim Jon Un's regime where it hurts.

But there was also the statement in the Chinese-run state newspaper Global Times on Friday that said that if North Korea attacks the U.S., China should remain neutral. In other words, they'd be on their own.

And there was even calming talk from this side of the Pacific. In a jointly-written editorial in Monday's Wall Street Journal, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Secretary of Defense James Mattis both insisted the Trump administration is not seeking regime change in North Korea and wants a diplomatic resolution to this dispute.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,554
56,071
Interesting...

To be specific, the big move came Monday as China agreed to ban imports of North Korean iron, lead, and coal as part of new U.N. sanctions on Pyongyang. That's hitting Kim Jon Un's regime where it hurts.

But there was also the statement in the Chinese-run state newspaper Global Times on Friday that said that if North Korea attacks the U.S., China should remain neutral. In other words, they'd be on their own.

And there was even calming talk from this side of the Pacific. In a jointly-written editorial in Monday's Wall Street Journal, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Secretary of Defense James Mattis both insisted the Trump administration is not seeking regime change in North Korea and wants a diplomatic resolution to this dispute.
Fwiw, last week Chinese papers were printing articles about last week signaling a changing of the guard in terms of who the world's super power is. NK just made America look weak, and everyone in the world knows that it's China who has the power.

If I may, as someone with a slightly unique viewpoint (not living in the U.S.) on what China's perspective is. NK is ultimately doing what China tells them. Nuclear war, for all intents and purposes is off the table, and realistically was never on it. So why all the hub bub? Well, since 1945 the pacific (Japan, Philippines, etc) have basically huddled under the blanket of American protection. China wants that to be them, they need it to be them to be the preeminent super power. What's the best way to do that? Make the U.S. look weak, and then step in. What happened in the last 2 weeks?

NK: "We're going to bomb people"
US: "You better not of we'll fuck you up"
NK: "You'll do fookin nuttin"
US: "Oh yes we will"
Pacific: "Please don't bomb us"
China: "Hey, NK knock that shit off"
Pacific: "Yay, China!!!"
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
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Dec 31, 2014
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hina wants that to be them, they need it to be them to be the preeminent super power. What's the best way to do that? Make the U.S. look weak, and then step in.
Those same papers signalled reduced support for north Korea leadership last week should they threaten America.

I don't really buy the grand plan is all China quite frankly. I agree with the premise of incentives, but Trump been offering them that carrot since the beginning. They didn't take it at numerous times it would have been prudent. Negotiating by xi? Maybe. But it didnt come until Trump increased the stick.

Trump doesn't want to deal with anything foreign if he doesn't have to. Trump cares about secure borders, jobs, and no military or terrorist attacks on America. That's probably about it as his core. Everything after that is not seen as the executive primary. He's a jobs president, let everyone else figure out that other stuff at the state and local levels.

The only thing Trump wants out of win on North Korea is negotiating such that China gets more out of playing leader on North Korea than they get out of fucking us by proxy with north Korea. His approach has been both carrot and stick.

If this was just China's timing trying to make us look weak, they waited until Trump's madman routine will also look like it's paid dividends. Further supporting a USA military interventionist threat as effective policy??? How does that make more sense than Trump letting them have the leadership limelight from day one?
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
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If this was just China's timing trying to make us look weak, they waited until Trump's madman routine will also look like it's paid dividends.
How did Trump's madman routine pay dividends? He got played like a fiddle. He threatened and didn't follow through (nor was there ever intention to) He's doing the same thing with NK that Barry did with Syria, empty threats.
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
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Dec 31, 2014
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How did Trump's madman routine pay dividends? He got played like a fiddle. He threatened and didn't follow through (nor was there ever intention to) He's doing the same thing with NK that Barry did with Syria, empty threats.

Read any of my posts and you'll see I agree, nobody wanted war. And you have to have the want for war in order to go to War.

And then go read all the posts, news media, Twitter, that Trump's pushing us to the brink of nuclear war. That he is crazy, that he's gonna preemptive strike. That he's going to make North Korea nuke us. Read world leaders worried about Trump's aggressiveness. The CNBC article I posted even makes a comment that his bad cop routine seemed to force China's hand.

Again, what did China have to gain by the timing that they wouldn't have received when it was offered for free earlier...and would still be there later?

I see only a good cop, bad cop routine... and on the other side China doing exactly what was offered without it over the largest piece of chocolate cake you've ever seen. Why would China wait until this:

Trump to launch investigation into China trade violations

When they already had a win after win if they reigned in N Korea.


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/853583417916755968?lang=en



They didn't get more since then.

Trump will promote this, with ease, that China was finally pressured reluctantly to act. And with it, the threat of force that so concerned Merkel will have gained validation.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,554
56,071
Again, what did China have to gain by the timing that they wouldn't have received when it was offered for free earlier...and would still be there later?
Because it's now been illustrated that A) Trump doesn't have the stone to pull the trigger. B) China has the solutions to problems America doesn't. I'm sure you're aware that China pushing America out of the pacific didn't start 2 weeks ago, it's just that now we're starting to see it come to a head.

Trump will promote this, with ease, that China was finally pressured reluctantly to act. And with it, the threat of force that so concerned Merkel will have gained validation.
Here's part of your problem You're giving consideration to Merkel's opinions.
 

drjones

Banned
Apr 25, 2016
761
840
lmao trump just took his ball and went home - he shut down his 2 business councils, the manufacturing forum and the strategy and policy forum.

i guess its easier to shutter them himself than it is to watch everyone walk away from them in disgust because of him...