The biggest story in MMA is a boxing match, why?

[La Paix]

Before all the obvious members post about how Conor is their path to salvation this thread isn't meant to discredit the fight but to discuss how the world's premier MMA org has nothing on the horizon that's getting the masses excited other than one of thier fighters competing in a different sport.

How did it get to here?

Is it the element of surprise that this is actually happening after the idea being shot down so many times?

"I could do it, make it huge, make money, but I could have done a fight like this when we were bleeding money [in the early 2000s]," White stated. "The fight would make some money, but it hurts MMA in the long term. We don't do that because we love the sport. That's a PRIDE or K-1 matchup. It's not what we do."

-DW


View: https://plus.google.com/+MixedMartialArtsMMA1/posts/XYRS6L7hCYb


Has MMA run its course or muddied the waters so much that it won't return to a "normal sport" now?

Is this another case of minimal foresight on the UFCs behalf to promote more of their own talent that they need to rely on the sport that appearently has been dying for years now?

 

[The Sound of Violence]

 

[Zeph]

It's a combination of not knowing how to make stars and as such have to wait for them to turn up, and the star power and drive of Conor McGregor. They can give a boost to talent, but no amount of boost will make a Conor McGregor, it takes the right timing, personality, fight results, everything to strike gold like that. MMA has also never had a star on Conor's level before, he has a lot of leverage and has pushed this through. Anderson either gave up or couldn't manage it.

So now we've got someone who is as big as, or bigger, than the UFC, which means the UFC can't just say no, especially if they want to hit their targets to get $100mil bonus from the sale. As for has it muddied the waters, to some extent it has shown that there are new limits to what a fighter can achieve, but is every fighter going to be able to manage it, no. Also has MMA ever been in a 'normal sport'? Shit has combat sports ever been 'normal'?

It's always been a mix of carnival, freak show, and legitimate sporting events. So nothing has really changed in this regard, this is just the latest in a long line of weird but intriguing match ups, from Hong Man Choi vs Fedor to Ali vs Inoki.

 

[La Paix]

It's a combination of not knowing how to make stars and as such have to wait for them to turn up, and the star power and drive of Conor McGregor. They can give a boost to talent, but no amount of boost will make a Conor McGregor, it takes the right timing, personality, fight results, everything to strike gold like that. MMA has also never had a star on Conor's level before, he has a lot of leverage and has pushed this through. Anderson either gave up or couldn't manage it.

So now we've got someone who is as big as, or bigger, than the UFC, which means the UFC can't just say no, especially if they want to hit their targets to get $100mil bonus from the sale. As for has it muddied the waters, to some extent it has shown that there are new limits to what a fighter can achieve, but is every fighter going to be able to manage it, no. Also has MMA ever been in a 'normal sport'? Shit has combat sports ever been 'normal'?

It's always been a mix of carnival, freak show, and legitimate sporting events. So nothing has really changed in this regard, this is just the latest in a long line of weird but intriguing match ups, from Hong Man Choi vs Fedor to Ali vs Inoki.

You think this will be the goal of up and comers now? Use MMA as a spring board to bigger and better things like movies or boxing matches? If so that's a sad reality for the MMA fans who've been around for a long time.

I can't disagree with too much of your post but there's not even a close second place at the moment. The forums and social media are 95% Conor/Floyd and the rest is usually fans making funny memes and gifs of the most recent moments for a laugh (some gold in those, not all bad)

Not much we as fans can do really but sit back and see how this all unfolds. It would just be nice to see MMA be big on its own and promote their own within. I really think the watered down version of mma we have at the moment is very unsustainable. Unless they can pump up some some fighters and get us excited again I expect mediocre MMA that heavily relies on big names and one off events from outside thier world to stay relevant.

 

[Zeph]

You think this will be the goal of up and comers now? Use MMA as a spring board to bigger and better things like movies or boxing matches? If so that's a sad reality for the MMA fans who've been around for a long time.

I can't disagree with too much of your post but there's not even a close second place at the moment. The forums and social media are 95% Conor/Floyd and the rest is usually fans making funny memes and gifs of the most recent moments for a laugh (some gold in those, not all bad)

Not much we as fans can do really but sit back and see how this all unfolds. It would just be nice to see MMA be big on its own and promote their own within. I really think the watered down version of mma we have at the moment is very unsustainable. Unless they can pump up some some fighters and get us excited again I expect mediocre MMA that heavily relies on big names and one off events from outside thier world to stay relevant.

Some, sure. Whether they will achieve it or not, I have no idea. I mean it's always been a goal of some fighters, like you said, Anderson tried it. While the income of fighters is depressed within MMA they are always going to look at other more lucrative avenues. It's why the pay situation hurts MMA in the long run and only benefits WME, Zuffa, et el.

What do you mean by watered down version of MMA?

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

You think this will be the goal of up and comers now? Use MMA as a spring board to bigger and better things like movies or boxing matches? If so that's a sad reality for the MMA fans who've been around for a long time.

I can't disagree with too much of your post but there's not even a close second place at the moment. The forums and social media are 95% Conor/Floyd and the rest is usually fans making funny memes and gifs of the most recent moments for a laugh (some gold in those, not all bad)

Not much we as fans can do really but sit back and see how this all unfolds. It would just be nice to see MMA be big on its own and promote their own within. I really think the watered down version of mma we have at the moment is very unsustainable. Unless they can pump up some some fighters and get us excited again I expect mediocre MMA that heavily relies on big names and one off events from outside thier world to stay relevant.

I think it's a roller coaster. Conor's gravity is so huge that all of the attention falls towards him. DC-Jones will get some attention, but I think we will have to wait a year or two for the UFC to get back into balance. They're not in a position where they will be without their down years, but I think they are big enough now to where a down year isn't panic time.

 

[RaginCajun]

It is a strange time in MMA.
We have some interesting fights this weekend with a number of legends plus the UFC brass fighting with there p4p best fighter and there longest reining champ but all most people care about is a boxing match between a boring defensive retired boxer vs a fighter that has a whole 0 pro boxing matches.

 

[Greenbean]

I think it's as simple as there are peaks and valleys in combat sports. People been saying boxing is going to die almost as long as I've been alive. But then outta nowhere a star is born and all of the media focus shifts to that person and it breathes new life into the sport. Right now, unfortunately it was a perfect storm to create a deep valley in the mma world with Ronda losing, Jon jones being Jon jones and now, mcgregor doin boxing. I also think that wme-img is severely over extended and they are seeing the short term gain by this matchup. If Floyd does put a clinic on MMAs best striker, it could look bad for the ufc and future interest and ppvs could suffer.

 

[Rambo John J]

UFC desperate
got too big for britches and quality went to shit and the ship has lost its bearing

Tournaments sell themselves...time to return to that and Stacked Cards

 

[The Sound of Violence]

UFC desperate
got too big for britches and quality went to shit and the ship has lost its bearing

Tournaments sell themselves...time to return to that and Stacked Cards

You mean like the PFL?

 

[Rambo John J]

You mean like the PFL?

say what?

 

[La Paix]

Some, sure. Whether they will achieve it or not, I have no idea. I mean it's always been a goal of some fighters, like you said, Anderson tried it. While the income of fighters is depressed within MMA they are always going to look at other more lucrative avenues. It's why the pay situation hurts MMA in the long run and only benefits WME, Zuffa, et el.

What do you mean by watered down version of MMA?

By watered down I mean they've gone with the quantity over quality (IMO) route. Last I checked the roster was over 500 fighters and there's way more unknowns than knowns. I feel the UFC signs guys to take them off the market just to tie up any and all talent before they go elsewhere, I guess good for business but it comes at a cost. Doing this creates all sorts of low level fighters going in the prelims once a year at best and we get lots of fights but at a lesser quality of skills or meaningful match ups. Or we get guys like Lobov main eventing when he's 13-12 or whatever for some crazy reason.

The monsters tourney we play would be much different if it was 2010 or so. I'd bet most our members would know 80%+ of the fighters and be able to predict likely outcomes because they don't need to google wrestle boxer "A"s wiki page and see how they match up with wrestle boxer "B".

 

[Zeph]

By watered down I mean they've gone with the quantity over quality (IMO) route. Last I checked the roster was over 500 fighters and there's way more unknowns than knowns. I feel the UFC signs guys to take them off the market just to tie up any and all talent before they go elsewhere, I guess good for business but it comes at a cost. Doing this creates all sorts of low level fighters going in the prelims once a year at best and we get lots of fights but at a lesser quality of skills or meaningful match ups. Or we get guys like Lobov main eventing when he's 13-12 or whatever for some crazy reason.

The monsters tourney we play would be much different if it was 2010 or so. I'd bet most our members would know 80%+ of the fighters and be able to predict likely outcomes because they don't need to google wrestle boxer "A"s wiki page and see how they match up with wrestle boxer "B".

The UFC need to fill out cards and give prospects someone to fight on the way up. A problem that has been happening recently is that other organizations can sign young prospects before the UFC and lock them into contracts. A large roster is a necessity in the landscape right now if they want to maintain dominance of market share. Personally, I prefer all the best fighters under the same roof, only wish they would unionise or legislate to protect themselves in that situation.

As for the monster's, if you play for a while you'll know most fighters.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

If Floyd does put a clinic on MMAs best striker, it could look bad for the ufc and future interest and ppvs could suffer.

This is the only thing I disagree with in your post, and I don't even fully disagree. There is a chance that Floyd could make Conor look so bad that it's bad for the sport, but Conor has already shown that he is going to go with the "we will use your limited rules to keep you alive, but we both know what would happen if we fought for real" angle. I think that will be a narrative after the fight, unless we run into the worst case scenario. I think there's a lot of ways for Conor to lose handily without hurting MMA as a whole.

 

[La Paix]

The UFC need to fill out cards and give prospects someone to fight on the way up. A problem that has been happening recently is that other organizations can sign young prospects before the UFC and lock them into contracts. A large roster is a necessity in the landscape right now if they want to maintain dominance of market share. Personally, I prefer all the best fighters under the same roof, only wish they would unionise or legislate to protect themselves in that situation.

As for the monster's, if you play for a while you'll know most fighters.

I understand what you're saying about prospects but I personally feel they should've kept something like Strikeforce Challengers series were the AAA guys were separated from the best.

Something I find weird though is how MMA fans seem willing to sacrifice their viewing experience of they can justify that there's a business move that'll help the great good of the UFC. I'm not sure if that's what you're doing here or just pointing it out so not an accusation. As a consumer I want all I can get for as little cost as possible. Too many times I read about bout justification being due to ppv buys or how it'll bring more eyes. Why as a fan do these things matter more than what you are following the sport for?

Playing monsters will get you remembering names more sure but that's not the point. A lot of under card guys don't even have a wiki page or are active enough to follow unless you work in an MMA related industry. They are long shots to make it to the main card let alone top 5-10 and they essentially water down the cards. It's just my opinion but I'd much rather see less big events but they all have top fighters and a title fight than a steady flow of mediocrity.

 

[Zeph]

I understand what you're saying about prospects but I personally feel they should've kept something like Strikeforce Challengers series were the AAA guys were separated from the best.

Something I find weird though is how MMA fans seem willing to sacrifice their viewing experience of they can justify that there's a business move that'll help the great good of the UFC. I'm not sure if that's what you're doing here or just pointing it out so not an accusation. As a consumer I want all I can get for as little cost as possible. Too many times I read about bout justification being due to ppv buys or how it'll bring more eyes. Why as a fan do these things matter more than what you are following the sport for?

Playing monsters will get you remembering names more sure but that's not the point. A lot of under card guys don't even have a wiki page or are active enough to follow unless you work in an MMA related industry. They are long shots to make it to the main card let alone top 5-10 and they essentially water down the cards. It's just my opinion but I'd much rather see less big events but they all have top fighters and a title fight than a steady flow of mediocrity.

A large roster and extra shows I don't find a problem. I don't think it's as mediocre as you believe, I've watched a fair few regional shows, for one. And I like MMA. All this watering down the sport gripes don't hold that much water to me, really. As for taking into consideration of the business side, Zuffa and WME are going to be taking it into consideration, so will the fighters, it would be foolish not to consider it on what would be the best path for a fighter. Also if it will do more ppv buys, then isn't there a large amount of people interested in it? Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that others don't as well.

The rest of your gripes seem to be like you just don't want to watch the whole card. That's fine, just watch the main events, then you'll only see your top 5-10 fighters. Every fight doesn't have to interest you. Ever tried recording the fights and watching what you want? Seems like it would solve your problem, while also having big event ppvs that are stacked from top to bottom every couple of months.

 

[Greenbean]

A large roster and extra shows I don't find a problem. I don't think it's as mediocre as you believe, I've watched a fair few regional shows, for one. And I like MMA. All this watering down the sport gripes don't hold that much water to me, really. As for taking into consideration of the business side, Zuffa and WME are going to be taking it into consideration, so will the fighters, it would be foolish not to consider it on what would be the best path for a fighter. Also if it will do more ppv buys, then isn't there a large amount of people interested in it? Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that others don't as well.

The rest of your gripes seem to be like you just don't want to watch the whole card. That's fine, just watch the main events, then you'll only see your top 5-10 fighters. Every fight doesn't have to interest you. Ever tried recording the fights and watching what you want? Seems like it would solve your problem, while also having big event ppvs that are stacked from top to bottom every couple of months.

Here's the thing about watered down cards and how things used to be. There's a lot of cards that we can look back on and say look how loaded they used to be! And in hindsight they were. HOWEVER at the time they were watered down with no names that we all know now because we're used to seeing them.

For example, For the longest time no one knew who kevin lee was and I saw people always saying who the fuck is that whenever he'd say something that grabs headlines. And now he's main eventing a fight night. If he one day becomes a contender, perhaps we'll look at old cards that he was on and say look how loaded they used to be! So packed they had Kevin lee on the undercard and now there's a bunch of nobody's on the undercard... rinse and repeat.

 

[Yossarian]

Short sighted decisions for a quick buck, at the cost of its longevity and credibility of the sport.

• Boring champs, that don't want to fight
• USADA
• Bogus rankings that don't get used anyways
• Too many divisions
• Too many interim belts
• Letting go of real talent/not grabbing talent (top guys from other organizations)

Conor changed the UFC bum life for sure...

 

[Onetrickpony]

 

[RaginCajun]

Here's the thing about watered down cards and how things used to be. There's a lot of cards that we can look back on and say look how loaded they used to be! And in hindsight they were. HOWEVER at the time they were watered down with no names that we all know now because we're used to seeing them.

For example, For the longest time no one knew who kevin lee was and I saw people always saying who the fuck is that whenever he'd say something that grabs headlines. And now he's main eventing a fight night. If he one day becomes a contender, perhaps we'll look at old cards that he was on and say look how loaded they used to be! So packed they had Kevin lee on the undercard and now there's a bunch of nobody's on the undercard... rinse and repeat.

 

[La Paix]

Here's the thing about watered down cards and how things used to be. There's a lot of cards that we can look back on and say look how loaded they used to be! And in hindsight they were. HOWEVER at the time they were watered down with no names that we all know now because we're used to seeing them.

For example, For the longest time no one knew who kevin lee was and I saw people always saying who the fuck is that whenever he'd say something that grabs headlines. And now he's main eventing a fight night. If he one day becomes a contender, perhaps we'll look at old cards that he was on and say look how loaded they used to be! So packed they had Kevin lee on the undercard and now there's a bunch of nobody's on the undercard... rinse and repeat.

This could be a decent reason but if you load up the roster to 500+ and have way more events it's only expected to have a lesser product more often. 1-2 big names on a card to carry the rest of the unknowns repeatedly instead of solid cards further apart.

Regardless this wasn't my intention of this thread, Zeph grabbed onto something to debate about and here we are.

 

[Greenbean]

This could be a decent reason but if you load up the roster to 500+ and have way more events it's only expected to have a lesser product more often. 1-2 big names on a card to carry the rest of the unknowns repeatedly instead of solid cards further apart.

Regardless this wasn't my intention of this thread, Zeph grabbed onto something to debate about and here we are.

I agree, but also every now and then there will be a breakout performance and it will pique my interest, so not all watered down cards are great, but some are good to see who to keep an eye on. Like that guy who put it to darrin Elkins before getting head kicked, I have no idea who he is. Maybe some of the hardcores who've been keeping up with mma more than I have knew who he was leading Into the fight, but I was like holy shit, I gotta keep my eye on this guy. Every now and then there'll be a surprise breakout performance for me and I'm always on the look out for that fight.