General The Supreme Court has overturned Roe vs Wade.

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Approve of federally-protected access to legal abortion being overturned?

  • Yes, it's murder

  • No, it's a woman's right to choose

  • But what about Hunter Biiiiiiiiiiiiiden

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kaladin stormblessed

Nala fanboy
Apr 24, 2017
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pillow FINGERS said:
It's 24 weeks here.

For me thats a little bit long to realise you are pregnant and don't want it.
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Dude I feel ya. Like I said, I was once a "life starts at conception guy"

But I had such a narrow and naive view of what pregnancy entailed (and presumably, I'm still clueless)

So at this point I'm more in the stance of, "women, its your body. You make the hard call"

I've never thought about it in detail until last night tbh. Here's what went through my head

Sperm close to an egg = not a human

Sperm halfway into an egg = not a human

Sperm fully in an egg = not a human

Fetus = no at first, but eventually yes?

Baby after being born = human

So I sat back and thought about the fetus section. And I couldn't figure out what is the change that takes it from a no to a yes. Is it heart beat? Is it brain activity? I don't know

And either way, there are circumstances where even a late term abortion sadly makes sense, despite being tragic

Such a complex topic
 
K

kaladin stormblessed

Nala fanboy
Apr 24, 2017
17,676
20,066
RaginCajun said:
What if the baby is like 3 years old but just a little brat and is always spilling drinks and shit?
Do you wanna abort that baby too?
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As my brother-in-law once said, "babies suck. They are selfish. They are all 'me me me.' But toddlers are awesome"

His joke actually rang true to me. So my stance is that you can't kill a toddler. But a whining baby...

 
FINGERS

FINGERS

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
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kaladin stormblessed said:
Dude I feel ya. Like I said, I was once a "life starts at conception guy"

But I had such a narrow and naive view of what pregnancy entailed (and presumably, I'm still clueless)

So at this point I'm more in the stance of, "women, its your body. You make the hard call"

I've never thought about it in detail until last night tbh. Here's what went through my head

Sperm close to an egg = not a human

Sperm halfway into an egg = not a human

Sperm fully in an egg = not a human

Fetus = no at first, but eventually yes?

Baby after being born = human

So I sat back and thought about the fetus section. And I couldn't figure out what is the change that takes it from a no to a yes. Is it heart beat? Is it brain activity? I don't know

And either way, there are circumstances where even a late term abortion sadly makes sense, despite being tragic

Such a complex topic
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If a baby can survive to adulthood then it's too late to abort unless for medical reason seems pretty logical to me.
 
K

kaladin stormblessed

Nala fanboy
Apr 24, 2017
17,676
20,066
Splinty said:
I'll engage you on this if you'll stop putting words in my mouth and trying to frame me or anybody else in a certain way.
I didn't ever say any of it was a clump of cells.
But the person I responded to did in their own words frame. All abortion has legal murder. I didn't put those words in their mouth. That is their concrete blanket framing.

Roe v. Wade and the casey verdict, clearly states a compromise that before viability, the woman's health, privacy, and own social determination is of more important than society's interest in its potential future member. After viability there becomes an increased interest by society such that elective abortion is no longer allowed. At that point, only extenuating circumstances that increase the woman's social detriment, health risk, etc. Exceptions to the viability line of the sand.

This balance between a woman's body and the reality that a late-term pregnancy has now developed. Most of the way, is the current law of the land. I am in support of this. Undoing this is wrong.

Now quit trying to put words in my mouth. I deliver babies as a living. I try to keep women and babies healthy throughout the entire pregnancy. And I find it wildly offensive to come at me with a clump of cells talk. Trying to frame me as some soulless enemy on this conversation.
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Sorry I'm spamming this thread. I'll stop

Just wanted to say (and I think I've said this before), you are a mad man. In a good way

I could never imagine doing what you do. And people like you are needed. So thank you for being you.
 
D

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pillow FINGERS said:
If a baby can survive to adulthood then it's too late to abort unless for medical reason seems pretty logical to me.
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This is generally an okay thinking to me right now. Early fetuses do not have developed nervous systems and the social access to abortion care can be obtained and most cases by 20 to 24 weeks. There's probably a dystopian future in which we can grow a human in a jar from two cells and we'll have to revisit this whole idea about viability, which is kind of a dirty compromise anyway. But by that point you would hope there would be better birth control and early pregnancy detection methods. Or you could just take the zygote out of the uterus and place it in said jar accomplishing most of society and the woman's goals.

Regardless, as viability inches lower and lower over time, increased early abortion access and birth control should be the goal. It is unethical to simultaneously create barriers to abortion and then blame women for not hurrying up and getting one before the point of liability. Likewise, as I pointed above, there is a concerted push to target a lot of birth control. Control. Just look at the cases in which companies offering health insurance have found legal means to deny birth control coverage. This is simply not appropriate while simultaneously being mad about abortion in my opinion. Once you provide education and access to birth control in access to early abortion, it becomes very easy to hold a woman accountable for not using any of those methods and finding themselves by 20 or 24 week fetus and society says your responsible for carrying. There feels like a lot of parallels where we screw people on education and put them in the poverty cycle and then blame them for not pulling themselves up. It's hard to hold people accountable if you didn't give them a good foundation to be outside of that situation first.
 
Hauler

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
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Shinkicker said:
Is there any point in pregnancy that you think would be too late for an abortion?
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I get weird about it when it starts to look like a person, but I'm sure that starts pretty early.

What is the earliest pregnancy that resulted in a healthy baby? Like the Prince/Princess of the Preemies. How far along was that?

If we want to be scientific about, perhaps we should make the demarcation line where the baby would be able to live without an umbilical cord.
 
D

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conor mcgregor nut hugger said:
Wouldn't it be smarter to go after mifepristone before going after IUD's?

Btw I mentioned mifepristone to @Lars and he thought it was the morning-after pill. What an idiot, right? Lol
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This is also happening. In Texas we are putting forth legislation to stop any type of abortion drugs by mail.
As a physician, I find this completely inappropriate and a little bit more approachment of the state into my practice. Some of those drugs have dual uses including miscarriage management at home. I've written some of these drugs myself for women too manage their miscarriage at home with appropriate ER precautions. This is a standard thing and a normal standard of care. The Texas legislation looks to block a woman's ability to get telehealth in this regard.
It just highlights more. There are law is actually an attempt to ban all abortion and circumvent the Constitution to do so. There is no legal precedent or freedom that they are unwilling to attack in this end goal.
To me it seems wildly, anti-democratic, anti-freedom, and anti-constitutional. And as a default, I am against the state being in your doctor patient relationship as much as possible.
 
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Nut hugger I'm on the go and that speech to text. Get over it.
 
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Willthiswork said:
And motherfuckers wonder why I want nothing to do with today's GOP.
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Yo bros, we've got 20 years of constant international war profiteering, a gutting of the middle class, and enriching of the already rich off the trillions and trillions spent in the same time period, 30 years of flat wages. Inflation adjusted for the middle class, our children falling behind on metrics compared to the world all over the place, but I definitely think the most important thing is that we try to ban abortions before 20 weeks as soon as possible. And since women become sluts if you give them birth control, let's go after that too so they won't get pregnant.
 
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Speaker to Animals

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MMAHAWK

MMAHAWK

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Feb 5, 2015
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Splinty said:
www.wwno.org

Louisiana bill would allow murder charges for abortions; opponents call it 'barbaric'

As the United States braces for the possible overturning of Roe v. Wade and an end to the constitutional protection of abortion rights, Louisiana lawmakers are advancing legislation that would bolster their ability to criminally punish doctors and individuals who violate the state’s abortion...
www.wwno.org www.wwno.org
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I read it this is the only time it’s mentioned

Opponents of the bill said its broad scope would also criminalize in vitro fertilization, intrauterine birth control devices (IUDs) and emergency contraception as well.

Forgive me for not taking their word for it
 
D

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HB813

legis.la.gov legis.la.gov


The criticism of the Louisiana law is not overstated. Here's the text.
IUD criminalized. It will be interesting to watch the slippery slope if this goes through. You have a pregnancy and you didn't know you were pregnant. You drink alcohol or smoke a cigarette. Some zealot DA besides to try to link your activity with your miscarriage. Of course it would probably fail in court, but maybe not. Every jury would be sophisticated enough to understand the reasonable doubt on this. Regardless, you could find yourself with murder charges for your miscarriage as well.

Screenshot_20220506-123315.png


I would like to see the apologist stop justifying the reasons we should get rid of Roe v. Wade. This is the goal. There. It is in black and white. It's not just abortions.
 
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MMAHAWK said:
Forgive me for not taking their word for it
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They link the actual bill. You could read it like I did. Stop giving this crowd the benefit of the doubt. It's blinding you to what's happening in front of you. I linked it above. There it is in black and white.
 
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