The UFC is owned by anti-semetic jew haters, and that's why we are fighting legalization in NY

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Spazebra

Active Member
Apr 7, 2015
89
101
Good points, Kneeblock!
I completely agree that not allowing the many dedicated MMA athletes to be able to earn a living in their home state is simply wrong. To be able to fight, PROFESSIONALLY, in front of family and friends in your home state cannot be overstated. To do it safely, with proper testing, overseen by one of the best and most stringent Athletic Commissions in the country is, I think, of equal value. We're definitely on the same page!
 

megatherium

el rey del mambo
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
10,874
14,112
As long as NY resists caving in to the monopoly, they're doing God's work.
 

wiggum

Active Member
Feb 22, 2015
54
80
Even though I live in NYC and wish the UFC and regulated MMA was here, I back the Culinary Union 100%

Why?

1) Their hijinx are hilarious.

2) Despite all the cries about unregulated MMA here in NYC, it's very easy for fighters to go to Jersey. I used to corner a couple fighters who did underground shows here in NYC and what I found at the shows was that most of the guys there had no business being in a ring or cage and were basically just being exploited by promoters. They didn't fight in Jersey because they didn't want to go through the medicals and all the other stuff regulation brings. So even if regulation came tomorrow, those guys would still fight in those underground shows.

3) It's not the Union's fault there's no MMA in NYC. It's the Fertitta Brothers. Workers at Station wanted to organize. A court found Station violated numerous labor laws in obstructing and penalizing employees who wanted to go union. The Fertittas started this war and now they are reaping the consequences. Shills like MMA.tv trot out 7 year old stats from a magazine poll saying Station is one of the best places on the strip to work, but it's not like the Culinary Union just swooped in and tried to take over. The desire to unionize came from within Station. The Fertittas crushed it illegally. Now all of their business ventures pay the consequences. Far be it from me to get between people trying to get the best possible wage and benefits just so I can see a live fight (that would probably have incredibly overpriced tickets I wouldn't be able to afford anyway).
Every now and then, our love for specific sports blinds us to bigger issues. I spent years thinking Title IX was a horrible law because of its adverse effects on amateur wrestling. Seen from a broader perspective, it's an amazing law that has allowed millions of girls to have the same athletic and educational opportunities as boys. I think part of it is poorly enforced and that we can save wrestling without hurting female athletics. But from 30,000 feet, it's great law.

Kneeblock demonstrates a similar point here. Nobody can defend the Fertittas' actions here. They broke labor laws illegally and unethically. The opposition from the union makes perfect sense.

Regarding the topic of this thread, as a Jew, I can say that this argument is ridiculous. You might as well boycott the US government for the amount of business it does with countries that refuse to recognize the state of Israel and you might as well boycott gasoline. Moreover, you better not support ADCC. It's a ridiculous standard to have.
 

Leigh

Engineer
Pro Fighter
Jan 26, 2015
10,912
21,059
I have fought in the States a few times. When I competed under a regulated body, it felt amazing - like I was a real professional athlete. It is good for the fighters. Therefore, I support legalising MMA in NY.

Additionally, regarding the Culinary Union and its antics, they are definitely funny but it's as clownshoe as it gets. Hasn't Zuffa agreed to vote for a unionisation? They just want to vote to be a non public ballot so that voters won't be bullied and intimidated.

Disclaimer 1: I'm not a Zuffa shill. Dana and the Fertitas were all friendly when I met them but I know for sure that they have done some underhanded stuff.

Disclaimer 2: I got a lot of my info from the OG News page and we all know it has zero journalistic integrity.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,433
22,932
Additionally, regarding the Culinary Union and its antics, they are definitely funny but it's as clownshoe as it gets. Hasn't Zuffa agreed to vote for a unionisation? They just want to vote to be a non public ballot so that voters won't be bullied and intimidated.

Disclaimer 2: I got a lot of my info from the OG News page and we all know it has zero journalistic integrity.
Leigh, much has been made, especially on the UG Blog posts about the culinary union seeking a "card check" vote on whether to unionize as opposed to gathering public signatures or doing a secret ballot. It's not really a case of Kirik shilling as much as not really understanding anything about labor organizing that has led him to call this process "undemocratic."

A card check is, in effect, more democratic than an open petition or open ballot. It's used as a strategy to organize a union when there have been found to be obstructions on the part of management. Organizing a union requires signatures of interest from 30 percent of the bargaining unit (though typically much more are collected) and then 50% + 1 in a ballot to formally certify the union. The issue is that an employer hostile to organizing can intimidate people into not voting or voting their way and evidence has shown in court that Station already has used these tactics.

What a card check does is it allows you to present the 50% +1 of the bargaining unit's union authorization cards to the national labor relations board and have your union automatically certified. The idea being if all those workers signed a card indicating interest, they have already voted. The vote in a secret ballot doesn't require 50% +1 of eveveryone, just of everyone who shows up to vote.

Employers generally control the voting process so they can (and have) use(d) a variety of tactics to suppress turnout or only let people they've influenced go in and vote.

The bottom line is that the Culinary Union and the Station workers were subjected to dirty tricks and despite winning in court, it was tough to get workers enthused about organizing again for fear of reprisals. So the union went after a more politically and economically vulnerable target in the UFC.

Sadly, mma.tv and other sites have basically just posted Zuffa LLC PR documents about the situation rather than doing any decent journalism, mostly because everyone wants the sport in NY.

But the big thing in NY has always been that legislators by and large really don't care about MMA one way or another. They just don't want to upset the few lawmakers who actually do and who have generally been pretty influential. The propaganda campaigns have been remarkably effective.

On one hand, I can't blame the Fertittas because Station was in bankruptcy just a few years ago and that was without a unionized workplace. But their mismanagement and unwillingness to negotiate in good faith is what's keeping MMA out of NY, not some power tripping tyrranical union as has often been mistakenly portrayed.
 

Spazebra

Active Member
Apr 7, 2015
89
101
Excellent explanation of the process, Kneeblock! Well-written and in depth
One point I disagree with, though. I believe a number of NY legislators are really interested in legalizing MMA, particularly those who represent areas where large economic benefits could be realized. Legislators from Syracuse, Rochester, Albany, Buffalo and Binghamton have all, repeatedly, voiced their frustration at the Sheldon Silver-led blockage of a vote. There are those who are equally opposed (though they are smaller in number) because of safety concerns and opposition to the sport, in general. It has been a passionate debate, but I do agree that the lobbying by both sides has become fierce. Heard an anti-MMA ad on a local radio station for the first time the other day, as the "targeted" media buys have ramped up, as the possibility of a vote gets closer.
In the final analysis, no matter which way the question goes this year, neither side has distinguished themselves with the methods employed. As MMA fans, we all want legalization, but as thinking human beings we should be able to see that neither side will be coming up smelling like roses.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,433
22,932
kneeblock @Kneeblock, thanks for the info. But check card DOES leave voters open to intimidation, right?
No, card check does not leave you open to coercion because all a card check is is using the cards you already collected to circumvent the additional vote.

Think of it this way: you and several of your friends sign cards saying you want to start a new subforum. Let's say 60% of you signed these cards months ago and now you're ready to start your subforum. Man vs Net comes along and says "okay, let's have a poll thread and then if 50% + 1 say they want the subforum, you can have it. But you argue "no, listen, I have the sign up cards from more than enough right here. Let's just start the subforum.

But suddenly MvN is insistent this is decided through a poll. You notice though that he's started to freeze some members, ban others and maybe he's setting up the poll so only blue namers can vote. You're like "we have the cards right here. CHECK them (hence card check). Everyone has signed up. Let's just get this subforum going." But MvN says no, poll is the only way.

That is what's happening here.