General Horrific Cop Killing of Daniel Shaver

[Deleted member 1]

Was going to chastise you a little for the "power hungry" cop stereotype. But I see you have made an airtight case that I must admit is right.

 

[Wintermute]

Was going to chastise you a little for the "power hungry" cop stereotype. But I see you have made an airtight case that I must admit is right.

Jesus, that guy probably couldn't WAIT to shoot someone.

 

[silentsinger]

Now how could it be I haven't heard anything about this shooting in the news...

Embarrassing to admit I read it but it was on the front page of The Daily Mail for a while.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Finally watched with sound.

In the moment, the cop was justified under the law. Guy reaches down to waist band (to pull up shorts?) And they shoot. He didn't follow their instructions. He got shot.



Now...
Sue the shit out of the department. How is that good training? Why wasn't he face down, legs crossed, hands flat out on ground assessed to be a low enough threat to approach and cuff? What is the point of having him undo all that to crawl towards them??

Supposedly the guys drinking. Lots of disturbances will involve drinking. Why are commands complicated enough to create the situation?



Cop's a power hungry ass. But I wouldn't convict or acquit on that.

 

[KWingJitsu]

Finally watched with sound.

In the moment, the cop was justified under the law. .

What law? Sounds like a law that needs to be changed if it's justifiable to kill an unarmed man. Is it justifiable to kill an unarmed cop if you imagine he "could" "possibly" have a gun? Why should it be okay the other way around then?

Guy reaches down to waist band (to pull up shorts?) And they shoot. He didn't follow their instructions. He got shot.

And he didn't have a gun, and he got shot. Maybe be sure he has a gun before executing people? Just a crazy thought......
And if you execute someone who didn't have a gun - maybe go to jail or get the death penalty... another crazy thought.

 

[Robbie Hart]

Now...
Sue the shit out of the department. How is that good training? Why wasn't he face down, legs crossed, hands flat out on ground assessed to be a low enough threat to approach and cuff? What is the point of having him undo all that to crawl towards them??

This

 

[Deleted member 1]

What law?

The one he was just acquitted under as a defense to manslaughter?

Not sure if serious, but it's a derivative of the model penal code Model Penal Code - Wikipedia that allows police to use lethal force in various situations while enforcing the law.

Sounds like a law that needs to be changed if it's justifiable to kill an unarmed man.

There's lots of times someone can be unarmed but present themselves as armed or a threat regardless. That's not a realistic blanket policy.

The law probably does need to be changed though.

. Is it justifiable to kill an unarmed cop if you imagine he "could" "possibly" have a gun? Why should it be okay the other way around then?

...

And he didn't have a gun, and he got shot.

Well in fairness, though it's moot, he had a realistic pellet gun that he waved out a window that got the cops called in the first place.

Maybe be sure he has a gun before executing people? Just a crazy thought......

Often impossible

And if you execute someone who didn't have a gun - maybe go to jail or get the death penalty... another crazy thought.

So death penalty for suicide by cop? Hrmmmm.

 

[Deleted member 1]

This

Interestingly the cop was apparently fired later on for violating policy.

I'd be real curious to know if it is in fact department training to have the shooting victim act the way he did.

If the cops were acting as trained, the department needs to be held responsible for what is obviously a needlessly complicated escalation.

If not acting as trained, I can't understand how he could get acquitted after failing to deescalate the situation.

 

[Buff Bagginz]

Splinty, that could have EASILY been me or you. Holy fuck that's scary. Some people don't handle instructions well under pressure, especially when drunk and rifles pointed at you and especially during times like these.

Apparently, the guy giving instructions was not the shooter. I believe this is all the fault of the idiot giving instructions and escalating the situation. I'll break it down later but that was horrible.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Police comments on this seem to mirror that crawling towards the cops is not common it was all needless escalation.

Though some instructors have suggested crawling.



View: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe/comments/7idoph/full_vid_daniel_shaver_mesaaz_shooting_good_shoot/dqy0exu



View: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe/comments/7idoph/full_vid_daniel_shaver_mesaaz_shooting_good_shoot/dqyne0y



View: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe/comments/7idoph/full_vid_daniel_shaver_mesaaz_shooting_good_shoot/dqy7vlt



View: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe/comments/7idoph/full_vid_daniel_shaver_mesaaz_shooting_good_shoot/dqy2x09


Some have pointed out that it's the sargeant yelling at Shaver and not the triggerman.
Doesn't make it any better, but does add some context about a possible departmental issue.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Splinty, that could have EASILY been me or you.

Yes. It could have. I didn't say it was right. I said I get why he was found not guilty.

 

[IschKabibble]

Engraving...

 

[Deleted member 1]

Engraving...

What a moron.



I suspect I would be convicted

 

[1372]

Just another needless shooting.

*Sigh*

 

[Zeph]

 

[KWingJitsu]

Not sure if serious, but it's a derivative of the model penal code Model Penal Code - Wikipedia that allows police to use lethal force in various situations while enforcing the law..

Uh yes. That one.

The law probably does need to be changed though..

Often impossible

Fixed.

So death penalty for suicide by cop? Hrmmmm.

False equivalency. Strawman argument which has nothing tho do with this case. That being said, if someone wanted to be killed by a cop, a cop doesn't actually have to kill him you know.... Again, nothing to to with this regardless.

 

[Deleted member 1]

False equivalency. Strawman argument which has nothing tho do with this case

Not at all.
Youre making blanket policy suggestions and I'm just giving one of a million situations it would work out poorly. Cops will always have to shoot sometimes when someone was unfortunately unarmed.

I don't doubt your sincerity here and I assure you I'm on your side. Cops shouldn't shoot unless they have to. The law should represent an expectation for departments to train deescalation always.

This guy was technically legally right to shoot. But that's about it. The whole things a preventative shit show and I only can assume the cops followed their training. And if so, the training needs to be penalized and corrected.

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

In the moment, the cop was justified under the law. Guy reaches down to waist band (to pull up shorts?) And they shoot. He didn't follow their instructions. He got shot.

This.

Something can be a bad shoot and not murder. DA's really need to stop playing hero time when they think they have a chance to make a name on a high profile case. Fucking lol @ calling every cop involved shooting an "execution"

 

[1372]

This.

Something can be a bad shoot and not murder. DA's really need to stop playing hero time when they think they have a chance to make a name on a high profile case. Fucking lol @ calling every cop involved shooting an "execution"

 

[Deleted member 1]

This.

Something can be a bad shoot and not murder. DA's really need to stop playing hero time when they think they have a chance to make a name on a high profile case. Fucking lol @ calling every cop involved shooting an "execution"

One thing I don't really know and I never see fully explained, is if there can be some "reckless" statute applied in some of these cases.

The guy who shot is not screaming the orders. He shot when the guy went for his waistband.

But the guy screaming the orders is supposed to be the highest ranking officer there and is a complete shitshow. He escalated the situation. He did not have his team arrest this guy with the lowest level of force needed.

Surely he can be held responsible criminally or civilly somehow? If not that seems an obvious place to start with the criminal statutes.

The guy goes for his waistband while the cop is telling him not to and he might get shot.

But what about all of the unnecessary events that led to that point?

As much as the shooting victim having a pellet gun isn't a death sentence, or totally without fault, surely the unnecessary screaming cop (or his instructors) can be liable somewhere in this process without being murder or nothing.

 

[member 3289]

Gonna need to read a few more posts before I figure out which side I'm on.

 

[b00ts]

I’ve been in a fucking war and I couldn’t even imagine the stress of a guy screaming that he will kill you if you fuck up any instruction while his team has rifles pointed at you AND you’ve been drinking. I’d beg them to just fucking cuff me already. You shouldn’t put a guy in that situation through a fucking circus act just to cuff him... all while telling him you’re going to kill him if he messes up anything.

 

[Deleted member 1]

I’ve been in a fucking war and I couldn’t even imagine the stress of a guy screaming that he will kill you if you fuck up any instruction while his team has rifles pointed at you AND you’ve been drinking. I’d beg them to just fucking cuff me already. You shouldn’t put a guy in that situation through a fucking circus act just to cuff him... all while telling him you’re going to kill him if he messes up anything.

I'm not sure I could follow those instructions sober just sitting here listening to the video.

I really want the guy screaming and escalating to be held liable somehow.

 

[Filthy]

Finally watched with sound.

In the moment, the cop was justified under the law. Guy reaches down to waist band (to pull up shorts?) And they shoot. He didn't follow their instructions. He got shot.



Now...
Sue the shit out of the department. How is that good training? Why wasn't he face down, legs crossed, hands flat out on ground assessed to be a low enough threat to approach and cuff? What is the point of having him undo all that to crawl towards them??

Supposedly the guys drinking. Lots of disturbances will involve drinking. Why are commands complicated enough to create the situation?



Cop's a power hungry ass. But I wouldn't convict or acquit on that.

that's bullshit. that moment where he tried to pull his pants up didn't happen in a vacuum. There was context. The guy was crying and begging for his life. And this was a 'suspicion' call, the officers hadn't even seen a weapon.

 

[Yuki Nakai's Eye]

Jeez that was tough to watch.