General Police brutality? Austin Texas

[Splinty]

If you threaten another human being with a deadly weapon (ie knife or gun) it is not outside the use of force to be tased or punched in response to that imo. Seems completely appropriate.

I'm not a fan of using such heavy Force just to control any situation. Cops should be deescalating.

The perpetrator here is exactly the kind of criminal we all say that police should be focused on instead of nonviolent offenders. And now we should handle them with kid gloves too??

The video lacks context, but the person that shot it describes it as "police brutality".

The guy was apparently in a scuffle with the bouncers who is the third guy initially there. His knife was clearly visible in his waistband. His hands being anywhere but behind his back has instructed or held firmly above his head flat on the ground is a risk that he can grab that knife.

Don't carry a knife on a night out drinking, or consider not threatening innocent people, and you probably wouldn't have the cops show up tasing you.

If the girlfriend would have left the police officer alone a little longer, there's a good chance he would have had two hands-free to roll the guy over. Instead he's stuck defending his side and back while trying to keep control of a guy resisting who has a weapon on him. She almost created the necessary punches as much as the perpetrator.

 

[Robbie Hart]

Rent a cop........pussy bitch

If he ever did that to me or my friends or family, I would literally find him and obliterate his fat ass

I reiterate what I said

 

[Splinty]

I reiterate what I said

What would you do to a drunk guy that threatened your friend or family member or even a co-worker with a knife?

 

[Robbie Hart]

What would you do to a drunk guy that threatened your friend or family member or even a co-worker with a knife?

Is that what happened? I can’t wade through all of the shit to understand......I would not involve a cop, I can tell you that much (waits for the badass comments thrown at me)
Cops over here are actually very friendly....il friends with the guy who walks around my current home and he’s cool......cops in the states are drama queen pussies....I know several and they are always looking for trouble

 

[Ted Williams' head]

Imagine the good old days before cell phones and dash cams

 

[Splinty]

Is that what happened? I can’t wade through all of the shit to understand......I would not involve a cop, I can tell you that much (waits for the badass comments thrown at me)

So you're mouthing off about the cop without even reading the follow-up context? Short...yes that's the story.


And if somebody threatens somebody you know with a knife, you'd feel comfortable kicking their ass? But the cop is a pussy if he kicks the guy's ass?



I personally don't think the police owe somebody with a weapon this cordial of a response:



View: https://youtu.be/JgpYBV34pec


To me, those police officers are set up for failure when they shouldn't be.

 

[Leigh]

I personally don't think the police owe somebody with a weapon this cordial of a response:



View: https://youtu.be/JgpYBV34pec


To me, those police officers are set up for failure when they shouldn't be.

Not sure what you're trying to say cos of the typos. Police in the UK are at a VASTLY lower risk of being murdered AND they kill VASTLY less people. The stats are undeniable; UK cops are exponentially more successful at managing violence than UK cops when it comes to avoiding death.

 

[1031]

Edit:
I have just read how it allegedly began.

 

[Splinty]

Police in the UK are at a VASTLY lower risk of being murdered AND they kill VASTLY less people.

Lies damned lies and statistics.

The point is context of an encounter of equal risk. Societal violence and firearm law explains all of the discrepancy of population outcomes you're discussing.

It doesn't necessarily explain anything about standard police intervention.

On the other hand, I am specifically looking at an assailant with a knife.
I'll go ahead and just throw a bone to anybody that thinks US police shoot knife holders too quickly. Okay... I haven't disagreed.

It doesn't change my statement. UK police can be as polite as they want, I don't think it's owed to assailants with a weapon is my point. The UK video clearly shows an unnecessary risk to the cops imo. The stat will support that was an excellent ending... How wonderful no Dead Cops and no dead assailant. Just two cops underpowered and a near-miss. Pure luck that no one went home dead. They both should have tased that guy in the first 2 Seconds.

Im mostly skewering the idea that the cops owe a knife weilder such a UK response. I support a much more forceful response than @robbie hart is apparently comfortable with. That is the poster I was responding to and the context for why I brought it up in the first place.

 

[1031]

If the girlfriend would have left the police officer alone a little longer, there's a good chance he would have had two hands-free to roll the guy over.

*had*

 

[Splinty]

@Leigh now that I'm in the weeds here, I wonder what the UK cops do during the break in the video. Guy goes down and then the video clips to them arresting him as a baton crosses through the screen. What happened in the blank space?

Perhaps the UK cops do "soften up" knife attackers to cuff them?

The guy still should have been tased right away. And I wouldn't consider it a fault if he was shot on running at the camera. Those cops don't owe that a knife attackers and I don't fault them if they punched him in the head over and over as needed.

 

[Yossarian]

When drunk sometimes people don't respond accordingly...

When drunk people do a lot of crazy shit and get hurt. It is still their responsibility.

 

[1031]

Is this type of situation at all common in the area or was it just a one-off?

 

[Splinty]

Is this type of situation at all common in the area or was it just a one-off?

That's 4th Street in Austin. It's one of a couple of streets full of bars and clubs with college students and others drunk as a skunk several nights a week.

Cops are always down there because there's always fights or some other shenanigans going on.

 

[Hauler]

Cops over here are actually very friendly

They are actually very friendly here as well.

 

[1031]

That's 4th Street in Austin. It's one of a couple of streets full of bars and clubs with college students and others drunk as a skunk several nights a week.

Cops are always down there because there's always fights or some other shenanigans going on.

In that case, one would expect better control.
Not bringing a knife to a bar or pub and threatening people with it is a good way to avoid that nonsense.
Still it shouldn't ever be the cops' job to dole out justice and I can't stress that enough.

 

[Hauler]

Still it shouldn't never be the cops' job to dole out justice and I can't stress that enough.

I agree. But that's not what I see here.

I see a drunk guy who has a knife and he's resisting. Add to that fact that there is a crowd building around them and a girlfriend who is acting like a complete lunatic. They had to get him in cuffs - and they needed to do it quickly. Would I like to see them be able to do that without shots to the face? Sure. But I'm not going to fault them for using that tactic in this situation.

As I've said repeatedly on these boards, I'm all about personal responsibility. If you don't want to get in a confrontation with police, don't act a fool in public.

 

[Leigh]

The point is context of an encounter of equal risk. Societal violence and firearm law explains all of the discrepancy of population outcomes you're discussing.

Does it? My rationale is not necessarily apples with apples but bear with me.

The US intentional homicide rate is 4 times greater than the UK. US police are killed at 10 times the rate of UK police and are killing at something like 100 times the UK rate.

So the police killing and killed rate is disproportional to the crime they're facing.

Of course, other factors could influence this, such as number of police on the streets, how statistics are collected etc but I'd much rather be a cop in the UK and I'd much rather deal with a UK cop, even in high crime areas.

 

[Splinty]

Does it? My rationale is not necessarily apples with apples but bear with me.

The US intentional homicide rate is 4 times greater than the UK. US police are killed at 10 times the rate of UK police and are killing at something like 100 times the UK rate.

So the police killing and killed rate is disproportional to the crime they're facing.

Of course, other factors could influence this, such as number of police on the streets, how statistics are collected etc but I'd much rather be a cop in the UK and I'd much rather deal with a UK cop, even in high crime areas.

I'm really not trying to get into the weeds on total societal police tactics. I even already gave the bone that US police shoot too quickly. Fair enough.



Robbie aka @Throbbie Fart has a problem with the original cop response (where I'm trying to stay focused). He referenced the cordial nature of UK cops. Maybe they are cordial. I don't think it's owed to the knife holder and I was giving an example of how UK cops respond to somebody with a knife that I think is unacceptably risky to the police officers. I'm simply giving a video to go along with his preferred method.

 

[Leigh]

I'm really not trying to get into the weeds on total societal police tactics. I even already gave the bone that US police shoot too quickly. Fair enough.



Robbie aka @Throbbie Fart has a problem with the original cop response (where I'm trying to stay focused). He referenced the cordial nature of UK cops. Maybe they are cordial. I don't think it's owed to the knife holder and I was giving an example of how UK cops respond to somebody with a knife that I think is unacceptably risky to the police officers. I'm simply giving a video to go along with his preferred method.

Yeah I agree that if you have a knife in your waist band and resist arrest, you're lucky if you only get a couple of digs in the chops.

 

[Ted Williams' head]

So you're mouthing off about the cop without even reading the follow-up context? Short...yes that's the story.


And if somebody threatens somebody you know with a knife, you'd feel comfortable kicking their ass? But the cop is a pussy if he kicks the guy's ass?



I personally don't think the police owe somebody with a weapon this cordial of a response:



View: https://youtu.be/JgpYBV34pec


To me, those police officers are set up for failure when they shouldn't be.

Sorry, but that dude should have been shot and died on that lawn.

It's amazing to me that people feel that cops - who as we know have one of the most dangerous and stressful jobs you can have - should have to put themselves at further risk trying to treat dangerous criminals with kid gloves.

 

[kneeblock]

There's so much wrong with the "someone on the scene" narrative that is contradicted by the tape.

"At the beginning of the video you can see he’s resisting some but not enough for two cops who are both obviously bigger than him to not be able to handle it." And the video shows them handling it, despite the guy resisting and the crazy woman interfering with them trying to accomplish the arrest. If a guy is resisting it is not going to be a nice clean act of leisurely placing his arms behind his back.

"How in the actual F**K can you tell someone to put their hands behind their back and stop resisting arrest when you’re literally sitting on his body and holding him not giving him the chance to move?" Quite easily, actually. Sitting on his body and holding him is a response to his resisting. He does not need to move to comply, other than to move his arms behind his back, or simply to stop fighting against the police who are attempting to move his arms behind his back. In the first fifteen seconds, there are three attempts to move his arms behind his back (that are caught on video - there may be more but the camera movement has it out of frame for some of that time.) At any point during the arrest, he could have just loosened up and let the police cuff him, but chose not to. This forced the officers to escalate their use of force.

"Then to arrest the girl for literally doing nothing... she was screaming and crying out for help and so you get to arrest her for that now?" Literally nothing? Besides the screaming and crowding the police and trying to interfere in them making the arrest, and despite being told numerous times to stand back, at 0:16 she puts her hands on one of the police. She does this again at 0:31. Attempting to use physical force to prevent a police officer from doing his job is a crime, and for that she was arrested.

It is worth noting that the video starts pretty late in the process. We don't see what the guy is being arrested for, or how much he resisted to get in the situation we are in when the video starts. What we are left with is a video of some police using force to effect an arrest on someone who is resisting. It isn't pretty, but seems to fall pretty far short of the abuse the guy describes.

When being arrested, simply do as told. If there is some miscarriage of justice being done, the time to fight it is once the lawyers get involved, not on the street. That is a game you can't win, and trying to only makes things a lot worse for you.

edited for grammar

Didn't we just celebrate Independence Day?

 

[Lukewarm Carl]

Does it? My rationale is not necessarily apples with apples but bear with me.

The US intentional homicide rate is 4 times greater than the UK. US police are killed at 10 times the rate of UK police and are killing at something like 100 times the UK rate.

So the police killing and killed rate is disproportional to the crime they're facing.

Of course, other factors could influence this, such as number of police on the streets, how statistics are collected etc but I'd much rather be a cop in the UK and I'd much rather deal with a UK cop, even in high crime areas.

Couldn't some of the itchy trigger finger leading to the cops killing at a much higher rate also be because they're being attacked with weapons at a higher rate?


I know that I'm human and if someone that I worked with was just shot at or stabbed during what was thought to be a routine traffic stop then there's a very good chance that that's going to be in my head the next day when I'm doing the same thing.

It won't make it right. But you can bet that I'd be a little more on edge than normal. In turn, that can create bad policing. Then you have a fun cycle snowballing of "bad guys" expecting to get abused and "good guys" expecting resistance.

 

[Leigh]

Couldn't some of the itchy trigger finger leading to the cops killing at a much higher rate also be because they're being attacked with weapons at a higher rate?


I know that I'm human and if someone that I worked with was just shot at or stabbed during what was thought to be a routine traffic stop then there's a very good chance that that's going to be in my head the next day when I'm doing the same thing.

It won't make it right. But you can bet that I'd be a little more on edge than normal. In turn, that can create bad policing. Then you have a fun cycle snowballing of "bad guys" expecting to get abused and "good guys" expecting resistance.

You could be right, I don't know the details. I just find it bizarre when Americans mock and criticise UK bobbies for their softer approach, considering the numbers.

I normally just respond with these:

 

[Robbie Hart]

You could be right, I don't know the details. I just find it bizarre when Americans mock and criticise UK bobbies for their softer approach, considering the numbers.

I normally just respond with these:

But it has nothing to do with the guns being available.....nothing at all to do with that