When do you intervene?

[Wintermute]

I'm in Seattle for a wedding and was in a Starbucks (coincidence!) with my wife getting coffee for the wedding party about an hour ago. It was mildly crowded and some homeless dude was in line. He took a metal tumbler and was hanging on to it in line like he was going to buy it. Obviously, he was looking for a second to bolt with it- you could tell by his body language. The staff was eyeball fucking him, especially the sole brawny dude behind the counter.

It's probably a good place to drop in that I've trained no gi grappling since 1995 and boxing and MMA since about '05, but I'm not one of the guys who trains that fights in the streets. I love combat sports, but I work an office job.

Anyway, so the homeless guy finally makes his move and leaves the line and heads for the back exit. Immediately this little chick from behind the counter chases him and says he can't leave without paying for the tumbler. He erupts at her that he didn't steal it- a tactic that I'd not seen before, but made total sense to me. What did she think he was going to do, just say "yeah, you got me here you go" and give it back? It felt like, why bother stopping him if you're not going to grab him?

So now, Brawny guy comes out from behind the counter and tells the guy he can't take the tumbler and he has to leave. The guy becomes irate and starts screaming that it's his and he didn't take it. He knocks some Grab N' Go items over in a rage and pushes brawny guy.

At this point, I feel like I have a responsibility to end this, so I say, "OK, stay here" to my wife and I'm thinking I'm going to run over, double leg the guy, take his back and just put him to sleep. I can't handle all the yelling. So I start moving to the fracas, but the homeless bolts out the front door before I get anywhere near him.

Closest I've ever come to getting into a physical altercation.

My question is: should I have put him out sooner? Should I not have intervened at all? I'm not Anderson Silva or anything, but there's no doubt in my mind that Tumbler Stealer would have had about ten seconds of consciousness once I got a grip on him. I can't stand the "bystander" mentality and of course every other person in the coffee shop was standing around watching, shocked...

I guess the question is: because I can, should I?

 

[SongExotic2]

Why you gotta pick on the homeless people bro?


Next time I hope he sticks that tumbler up your skinny latte drinking ass and chokes you out with your kale wrap


Thug life

 

[Deleted member 1]

There's a point at which reality matters more than justice.

Verbally confronted the customer is all the employees should do. The big dude should not escalate.
You were prepared if the homeless guy escalated.

It's not worth anybody in this mix getting hurt over a coffee tumbler.
Odds are you'd feel good about serving some justice to the thief. But you might have eaten an elbow in the scramble too. Even a little busted lip isn't worth this hassle...
He's sleeping on the street tonight, so it's hardly as if he is "getting away" with much.

You did right. No cowboy, prepare to fix things if they get serious m

 

[Wintermute]

It's not like I feel bad for not intervening sooner, but if he had knocked some old lady over on his way out and knocked her out, I would have felt like Peter Parker when the thief killed Uncle Ben.

 

[SongExotic2]

It's not like I feel bad for not intervening sooner, but if he had knocked some old lady over on his way out and knocked her out, I would have felt like Peter Parker when the thief killed Uncle Ben.

Hmmm yeh that would suck. I wonder why a bum would want to steal a Starbucks cup tho. I could think of much better things to steal

 

[Wintermute]

Sell it, probably.

 

[ECC170]

It's not like I feel bad for not intervening sooner, but if he had knocked some old lady over on his way out and knocked her out, I would have felt like Peter Parker when the thief killed Uncle Ben.

Honestly you did the right thing...But had he started to hurt somebody you should have laid waste to him..
you doing like a solid guy with a good head on your shoulders..plus with the outrageous prices at Starbucks whos really ripping ppl off

 

[Zeph]

It's not worth it for a coffee cup. Corporations account for stuff like this into operating costs. The homeless guy has to be pretty desperate to steal a coffee cup, and you can never be sure what he will do. Sure you could choke him out, but if he pulls a knife and stabs you during it, I doubt Starbucks are going to pay your hospital bills.

 

[teamquestnorth]

You probably did the right thing in that situation. The guy could have had a knife or even a dirty needle or something that could have stuck you if you had tackled him.

Plus.....you probably would have smelled like a bum for the wedding.

 

[teamquestnorth]

I work at a grocery store and I see shit like this almost on a daily basis.

I get a lot of drunks and tweakers coming in trying to steal shit. When confronted, they usually start yelling at you or make a run for it. I've had a bottle of liquor thrown at me before.

Its hard not to go into beast mode when that happens

 

[jason73]

im sure the starbucks crowd has plenty of iphone footage of the incident.the police should be able to handle it from here on out

 

[Robbie Hart]

The risk of something weird happening to you is not worth intervening. He may have been looking for trouble and maybe had a weapon as noted above.......let the staff warn him, if he leaves with a $10 cup, so be it. If you felt he was threatening others and was a danger then you might step in.......its like my one friend told me a long time ago when I was contemplating a confrontation......."you have a life and a job and some things going for you, he has nothing to lose so be wary of the guy who has nothing to lose"

 

[SongExotic2]

The risk of something weird happening to you is not worth intervening.

Terrible advice. The USA employed this tactic back in the day, and do you know what happened?

That's right

Pearl harbor.


I think the cobra Kai say it best

Strike first

Strike hard

Show no mercy.



You let that bum make a fool of you!

For shame!

 

[Leigh]

Absolutely would not get involved. Get in a scrap over a Starbucks cup? Fuck that noise.

 

[Bluesville]

It's not worth the risk.

Life seems to be getting cheaper and cheaper these days.

 

[Robbie Hart]

Terrible advice. The USA employed this tactic back in the day, and do you know what happened?

That's right

Pearl harbor.


I think the cobra Kai say it best

Strike first

Strike hard

Show no mercy.



You let that bum make a fool of you!

For shame!

Ok, thinking about this again, you have a point. Next time, @peter_weyland , quietly ask the staff for a knife and then when the guy least expects it just cut his throat from ear to ear an make sure you roar and celebrate.

 

[Bluesville]

That said, you should have tracked him down to the doorway he sleeps in and had a shit in it.

Merry 23rd of August, fuck face.

 

[SongExotic2]

Ok, thinking about this again, you have a point. Next time, @peter_weyland , quietly ask the staff for a knife and then when the guy least expects it just cut his throat for ear to ear an make sure you roar and celebrate.

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

You did good. I'd have done nothing because there's no need to. He isn't really hurting anyone, and in most places he isn't breaking any laws until he actually leaves the premises with the unpaid for item, so the employees were actually in the wrong for how they handled it. They almost unnecessarily escalated a situation to violence for (legally) no reason. Imagine how brawny guy would feel if Homeless man pulled a gun and shot up the places.

I also fall into the category of "can hold my own" but have no interest in partaking unless it's to deescalate violence, because there's no fair play outside of the gym, or at Starbucks apparently. The two best pieces of self defense advice I've ever gotten were 1) There's no better self defense than a good right cross. 2) There's no such thing as a fair fight.

 

[Wintermute]

Well, thanks for the input, bros!

Definitely identify with the "don't fuck with people that have nothing to lose over a $10 Starbucks Tumbler" mentality, but I also hear @KingConorsChampionCuckold that justice should be swift and merciless. I don't have a real sense for these things, so putting it on TMMAC for opinions helps.

Incidentally, @Splinty should I design a backwards TMMAC logo ring incase I have to Rick James some fool in his head next time? Might be good PR?

 

[SongExotic2]

 

[ThatOneDude]

The guy obviously needs the coffee mug thing more than starbucks. Wouldn't have even thought about getting involved unless he attacked one of the ladies working there.

 

[kneeblock]

Keep the sword sheathed unless it's a serious threat. Violence is almost always unfulfilling afterward.

 

[GJdeux]

The risk of something weird happening to you is not worth intervening. He may have been looking for trouble and maybe had a weapon as noted above.......let the staff warn him, if he leaves with a $10 cup, so be it. If you felt he was threatening others and was a danger then you might step in.......its like my one friend told me a long time ago when I was contemplating a confrontation......."you have a life and a job and some things going for you, he has nothing to lose so be wary of the guy who has nothing to lose"

have to agree with this. I'm not a bystander type person if someone is getting physically harmed or going to be harmed, but not really your place to intervene in a store just because someone is stealing stuff. I would like to help, however stores have policies and if you do something they might be on the hook for liability for you AND for the other guy. Unless there is imminent danger, a no go for me to get physically involved.

 

[SongExotic2]

Bunch of Canadians in here for sure