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General Impeachment inquiry launched
- Thread starter MMAPlaywright
- Start date
You're the one using a dead language, brah.
if he broke the law this would be an official impeachment and not a theatrical inquiry
M
member 3289
Guest
Petitioning a foreign government for help in a national election is against the law, fucktard
Go easy on the little fella his mom just bought him his first dictionary/thesaurus
How's the weather on your planet where international blackmail isn't against the law, goober?
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"Hey President of Ukraine, congrats on your election victory. As we both know, Gov't corruption in your country (and ours) has been a problem for decades. US tax payers give Ukraine billions of dollars in aid annually. I'd like to be confident that this money will no longer be used to line the pockets of corrupt Ukraine politicians, businessmen, Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, and other corrupt US politicians and businessmen (or their children). So I would consider it a personal favor if you would investigate this corruption in your country, and I will instruct our people to do the same. Thank you"
Exactly where is the blackmail that I'm missing, because aid was never withheld. Enlighten me.
M
member 1013
Guest
You just googled those things, don’t lie.
M
member 3289
Guest
D
Deleted member 1
Guest
It was. It was only released after lawyers from the state department forced the issue that holding congressional funds via the executive in this manner was illegal.
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
Here is chief of staff stating it was withheld - "get over it!"
View: https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1184879214320914433
He tries to cover that it was just corruption investigating, but the ambassador's have clearly stated that there was no typical corruption investigation started, arranged between our governments, etc. In fact, ambassadors are told Trump cares "more about the Biden's than Ukraine".
Congress authorizes money.
Trump freezes money, congress is not alerted to the what's and why.
Trump makes a call.
Via Rudy and others, that the President of Ukraine is told he must make a public announcement of investigating the Bidens (private wouldn't do)
Ukraine panics and makes several "desperate" pleas via the state department regarding the money.
Ukraine President is scheduled to make a CNN public announcement about the investigation, as Trump apparently wanted.
Money is released, not by Trump, but by state department after lawyers find holding it is illegal.
CNN announcement canceled.
Decide all day if you think Trump was "just investigating corruption" (without any other requisite follow through, no apparatus for it, no state department movement on this, etc). But everything else is fact. Trump held funds. There was a quid pro quo for those funds. The holding of those funds was illegal.
Decide if those funds were held as part of a larger USA benefiting strategy in government policy (legal) or Trump pushed for his own political purposes (illegal).
All I know is, their star witnesses were crickets when asked to put up or shut up.
View: https://youtu.be/B_Iehlk-0Eo?t=226
D
Deleted member 1
Guest
But that's a loaded question for that audience. The ambassadors are not supposed to say there's an impeachable offense. They are supposed to just say facts and we (via Congress) decides. It's refreshing now incredibly professional the ambassador is.
He is professional, but where's the beef? I haven't heard one thing yet in two days that's an impeachable offense. Look, we both know he's not going to get impeached, and therefore, this whole shit show is doing nothing but keeping more productive things from happening for the American people.
View: https://twitter.com/CarpeDonktum/status/1194660335719985152
@Splinty
what do you make of this? It is actually biden behind the trump face.
As you know I don't like either "party", so my feelings won't be hurt by shitting on either side.
D
Deleted member 1
Guest
I've looked into this extensively.
Biden was operating under a larger national agreement between the US and Ukraine governments in which coordinated ambassadors and lawyers made agreements on what qualifies as corruption or not. The prosecutor being removed had recently undermined US policy in Ukraine. There was broad agreement that he was part of the old guard causing the problems in Ukraine. This was agreed by multiple EU partners and the US state department. Biden simply then pointed out that the guy undermining the US policy had to go.
This is what Trump is trying to claim he did. But he's doing so in retrospect and the timeline is problematic.
For one, no concerted Ukraine and American corruption investigation was ever launched via Trump. The State department officials who specialize in corruption in regards to US State department policy throughout the world stated during the recent testimony that no such arrangement had begun and that Trump's discussion or follow through did not in any way appear to be a corruption investigation as per the apparatus that is there for this.
Trump made his conversation and the freezing of funds independent of Congress who released the funds and independent of the State department who would be involved in the corruption investigations and then subsequent releasing of those funds if corruption was cleaned out. that is, again, nothing was set up to seek out corruption And with it release funds in response.
In fact, The funds were to be released upon only a public announcement of an investigation being started by the ukrainians.
Rudy Giuliani as a personal lawyer and not a part of government was used as a middleman to run messages. Again no congressional or state department involvement. Whether legal or illegal, there was clearly a shadow foreign policy being run here at that point. So at minimum, it's entirely different than Biden implementing a broad and cohesive effort on behalf of the United States foreign policy planning.
If the president holds up funds illegally (he did, That's why State department lawyers got them released not Trump), asks for a public statement of a corruption investigation in to the Bidens rather than simply start an investigation through the huge apparatus we have for this, and does so without notifying Congress or the state department, but rather via his non governmental lawyer...that cannot be reasonably conflated with a coordinated public facing international Western policy to fund Democracy (and aka anti-Russian) that has no end goal regarding political opponents.
Thanks for the summary...you seem to have looked into it
Using Giuliani is shady as fuck...I don't trust that man
US politics is such a shitshow man
Thanks again for the response and info
Dude, look at the election we just had. No one cares.
With pleasure. To start with, a big fat "LMMFAO!" @ "aid was never withheld".
. You're either, trolling or are ... "misinformed" (deliberately or otherwise), so lemme help ya with a thing we have on our planet called "facts". I give you; the timeline cliffs:- July 3rd - Hold placed on monetary aid to Ukraine; ordered by Trump.
- July 10 - White House Chief of Staff tells US ambassador to Ukrain, Trump will meet with Ukraine President if he agrees to "launch investigations".
- July 25th - Trump calls Zelensky asking for "favors" including investigating Biden. Ukrainian President agrees.
- Sept 9th - Word gets out the money for Ukraine is on hold.
- Sept 11th - Aid is suddenly released.
- Sept 13th - Turns out Zelensky was set to do a CNN "interview" and "announce" he was investigating Biden, but it was suddenly cancelled.
Perhaps when you are less
inebriated, and at such a time when your attention span can handle it, you may peruse a more detailed sequence of said events in more details below :JULY 3: The hold
Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, a national security official working at the White House, becomes aware that the military aid has been held up. He testified that he received a notice from the State Department. “That’s when I was concretely made aware of the fact there was a hold placed,” he said in testimony to lawmakers.
JULY 10: The meeting
A meeting at the White House with Ukrainian officials is cut short when Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, says he has an agreement with the acting White House chief of staff that Ukraine’s president would get a meeting with Trump if Ukraine agreed to launch investigations.
JULY 18: The hold-up announcement
In a secure call with national security officials, a staff member of the White House Office of Management and Budget announces there’s a freeze on Ukraine aid until further notice, based on a presidential order to the budget office.
JULY 25: The phone call
Trump speaks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, asking him for favors that include an inquiry into Joe Biden’s son Hunter’s dealings with Burisma, a Ukrainian gas company, and to investigate whether Ukraine interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential elections.
AUGUST: The questions
Catherine Croft, the special adviser for Ukraine at the State Department, says two Ukrainians reach out to her to ask about the status of the military assistance. She told lawmakers she couldn’t recall the exact dates, but believes the outreach took place before the Aug. 28 publication of a Politico article detailing the hold.
AUG. 12: The complaint
A whistleblower files a formal complaint addressed to Congress that details concerns over the July 25 phone call and the hold placed on the military aid. The complaint is withheld from Congress until Sept. 25.
AUG. 28: The article
Politico publishes details that the military aid to Ukraine is on hold, setting off a scramble among diplomats in Ukraine and the United States.
AUG. 29 AND AFTER: Ukraine’s desperation
William Taylor, the acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, testified that he did not know the aid had been withheld until after the Politico article appeared, when he started receiving “desperate” calls from Ukrainian officials.
“The minister of defense came to me,” he said. “I would use the word ‘desperate,’ to try to figure out why the assistance was held.”
SEPT. 9: The investigations begin
Three House committees launch a wide-ranging investigation into the allegations that Trump, his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, and possibly others, tried to pressure the Ukrainian government to help the president’s reelection campaign by digging up dirt on a political rival.
SEPT. 11: The aid is released
The funds are suddenly released. Senate Republicans said that happened in part because Sen. Dick Durbin, an Illinois Democrat, threatened to block $5 billion in Pentagon spending for 2020 if the aid wasn’t given to Ukraine. They said the aid was held up while Trump looked into whether Zelenskiy was serious about fighting corruption. Taylor and other diplomats involved in Ukraine were not given a reason for the aid being released.
IN THE AFTERMATH: The canceled CNN interview
Taylor said Ukraine’s president was planning to do an interview with CNN in which he would make a public statement on the investigations that Trump had pushed for.
SEPT. 13:
Taylor was concerned about the interview and its potential to play into “domestic U.S. politics,” and on Sept. 13 asked Ukrainian officials about it. The interview never happens.
Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, a national security official working at the White House, becomes aware that the military aid has been held up. He testified that he received a notice from the State Department. “That’s when I was concretely made aware of the fact there was a hold placed,” he said in testimony to lawmakers.
JULY 10: The meeting
A meeting at the White House with Ukrainian officials is cut short when Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, says he has an agreement with the acting White House chief of staff that Ukraine’s president would get a meeting with Trump if Ukraine agreed to launch investigations.
JULY 18: The hold-up announcement
In a secure call with national security officials, a staff member of the White House Office of Management and Budget announces there’s a freeze on Ukraine aid until further notice, based on a presidential order to the budget office.
JULY 25: The phone call
Trump speaks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, asking him for favors that include an inquiry into Joe Biden’s son Hunter’s dealings with Burisma, a Ukrainian gas company, and to investigate whether Ukraine interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential elections.
AUGUST: The questions
Catherine Croft, the special adviser for Ukraine at the State Department, says two Ukrainians reach out to her to ask about the status of the military assistance. She told lawmakers she couldn’t recall the exact dates, but believes the outreach took place before the Aug. 28 publication of a Politico article detailing the hold.
AUG. 12: The complaint
A whistleblower files a formal complaint addressed to Congress that details concerns over the July 25 phone call and the hold placed on the military aid. The complaint is withheld from Congress until Sept. 25.
AUG. 28: The article
Politico publishes details that the military aid to Ukraine is on hold, setting off a scramble among diplomats in Ukraine and the United States.
AUG. 29 AND AFTER: Ukraine’s desperation
William Taylor, the acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, testified that he did not know the aid had been withheld until after the Politico article appeared, when he started receiving “desperate” calls from Ukrainian officials.
“The minister of defense came to me,” he said. “I would use the word ‘desperate,’ to try to figure out why the assistance was held.”
SEPT. 9: The investigations begin
Three House committees launch a wide-ranging investigation into the allegations that Trump, his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, and possibly others, tried to pressure the Ukrainian government to help the president’s reelection campaign by digging up dirt on a political rival.
SEPT. 11: The aid is released
The funds are suddenly released. Senate Republicans said that happened in part because Sen. Dick Durbin, an Illinois Democrat, threatened to block $5 billion in Pentagon spending for 2020 if the aid wasn’t given to Ukraine. They said the aid was held up while Trump looked into whether Zelenskiy was serious about fighting corruption. Taylor and other diplomats involved in Ukraine were not given a reason for the aid being released.
IN THE AFTERMATH: The canceled CNN interview
Taylor said Ukraine’s president was planning to do an interview with CNN in which he would make a public statement on the investigations that Trump had pushed for.
SEPT. 13:
Taylor was concerned about the interview and its potential to play into “domestic U.S. politics,” and on Sept. 13 asked Ukrainian officials about it. The interview never happens.
What’s wrong with not wanting to give a country billions of dollars in taxpayer funded aid until you’re confident they are addressing corruption? That’s not quid pro quo. That’s protecting the interest of US tax payers. You’re one. Does it not piss you off that money comes out of your check, and goes directly into the pockets of corrupt turds like Joe & Hunter Biden?With pleasure. To start with, a big fat "LMMFAO!" @ "aid was never withheld".
- July 3rd - Hold placed on monetary aid to Ukraine; ordered by Trump.
- July 10 - White House Chief of Staff tells US ambassador to Ukrain, Trump will meet with Ukraine President if he agrees to "launch investigations".
- July 25th - Trump calls Zelensky asking for "favors" including investigating Biden. Ukrainian President agrees.
- Sept 9th - Word gets out the money for Ukraine is on hold.
- Sept 11th - Aid is suddenly released.
- Sept 13th - Turns out Zelensky was set to do a CNN "interview" and "announce" he was investigating Biden, but it was suddenly cancelled.
Perhaps when you are less
JULY 3: The hold
Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, a national security official working at the White House, becomes aware that the military aid has been held up. He testified that he received a notice from the State Department. “That’s when I was concretely made aware of the fact there was a hold placed,” he said in testimony to lawmakers.
JULY 10: The meeting
A meeting at the White House with Ukrainian officials is cut short when Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, says he has an agreement with the acting White House chief of staff that Ukraine’s president would get a meeting with Trump if Ukraine agreed to launch investigations.
JULY 18: The hold-up announcement
In a secure call with national security officials, a staff member of the White House Office of Management and Budget announces there’s a freeze on Ukraine aid until further notice, based on a presidential order to the budget office.
JULY 25: The phone call
Trump speaks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, asking him for favors that include an inquiry into Joe Biden’s son Hunter’s dealings with Burisma, a Ukrainian gas company, and to investigate whether Ukraine interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential elections.
AUGUST: The questions
Catherine Croft, the special adviser for Ukraine at the State Department, says two Ukrainians reach out to her to ask about the status of the military assistance. She told lawmakers she couldn’t recall the exact dates, but believes the outreach took place before the Aug. 28 publication of a Politico article detailing the hold.
AUG. 12: The complaint
A whistleblower files a formal complaint addressed to Congress that details concerns over the July 25 phone call and the hold placed on the military aid. The complaint is withheld from Congress until Sept. 25.
AUG. 28: The article
Politico publishes details that the military aid to Ukraine is on hold, setting off a scramble among diplomats in Ukraine and the United States.
AUG. 29 AND AFTER: Ukraine’s desperation
William Taylor, the acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, testified that he did not know the aid had been withheld until after the Politico article appeared, when he started receiving “desperate” calls from Ukrainian officials.
“The minister of defense came to me,” he said. “I would use the word ‘desperate,’ to try to figure out why the assistance was held.”
SEPT. 9: The investigations begin
Three House committees launch a wide-ranging investigation into the allegations that Trump, his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, and possibly others, tried to pressure the Ukrainian government to help the president’s reelection campaign by digging up dirt on a political rival.
SEPT. 11: The aid is released
The funds are suddenly released. Senate Republicans said that happened in part because Sen. Dick Durbin, an Illinois Democrat, threatened to block $5 billion in Pentagon spending for 2020 if the aid wasn’t given to Ukraine. They said the aid was held up while Trump looked into whether Zelenskiy was serious about fighting corruption. Taylor and other diplomats involved in Ukraine were not given a reason for the aid being released.
IN THE AFTERMATH: The canceled CNN interview
Taylor said Ukraine’s president was planning to do an interview with CNN in which he would make a public statement on the investigations that Trump had pushed for.
SEPT. 13:
Taylor was concerned about the interview and its potential to play into “domestic U.S. politics,” and on Sept. 13 asked Ukrainian officials about it. The interview never happens.