Zuffa denied request to restrict financials from Rob Maysey (MMAFA)

[Zeph]

I don't know. I kinda feel like table tennis players should make Serena money and pro minature golfers should make that Tiger money.

Classic misdirection.

 

[Ted Williams' head]

Bullshit. Boxing is the closest sports business to MMA.

Different model though, bro. All done with different promoters (essentially guys from two different "companies" can fight). A boxing card will have a main event and 2-4 prelim fights. The average UFC card has what, 9-10 fights or more? It's just a different business model.

 

[Zeph]

Different model though, bro. All done with different promoters (essentially guys from two different "companies" can fight). A boxing card will have a main event and 2-4 prelim fights. The average UFC card has what, 9-10 fights or more? It's just a different business model.

Yet the difference in pay is astronomical. Boxers who pull in 350k buys have been getting paid 6-7mil. Aldo who averages around there has not been getting paid even half of that, and it isn't because the money is being spread out amongst the other fighters.

 

[Narcosynthesis]

The deep pockets I'm referring to belong to the UFC not the plaintiffs. And you can't be serious with the plucked from obscurity comment. The UFC chose to employ them based on being the top fighters at the time or filled a void on TUF. Both parties gained from this agreement just seems that ZUFFA got the lions share when it came to finances and likeness and so on.

The person with the most financial risk in the game usually does stand to profit the most. If the UFC goes bankrupt who are creditors going to go after? Ask Coker. He should know. The fighters just move on to the next promotion. All that financial risk should result in a bigger piece of the pie.

 

[ThatOneDude]

Well the UFC has made changes on it's own, like the increased minimum salary for new fighters. Personally, I have no problem with what the lower and mid guys are getting. I believe the top guys and champs should be getting more. I think the payout problems of the UFC are much smaller than most people here do I guess.

Sponsorship is the biggest problem I have: the UFC never should have signed the Reebok deal, it hurt the fighters, but it's 100% their right to do so and make a deal for their company like that IMO. No fighter has a god-given right to be able to wear whatever sponsors they want on a UFC show: that was a UFC-given priviledge.

As far as likeness rights, getting paid every time the UFC shows one of your fights, or shows you in a HL video or graphic? Hell no, I'm not for that at all.

I think the UFC should be paying them more on the purses and they shouldn't have signed the Reebok deal to restrict the sponsorship revenue guys can make. But I don't support any legislation or unions that would effect the UFC's ability to run their business. That's just my view on it.

So by some of what you said in here it seems you think of the fighters as employees.

 

[La Paix]

The person with the most financial risk in the game usually does stand to profit the most. If the UFC goes bankrupt who are creditors going to go after? Ask Coker. He should know. The fighters just move on to the next promotion. All that risk should be result in a bigger piece of the pie.

Agreed but I think one of the issues is how much more and this lawsuit should show what it is now and we might see that it's just not right.

 

[Wild]

I just dont see how one could be a fan of MMA, and side for organizations over fighters. If you're a UFC fan, can you really consider yourself an MMA fan? Are you a fan of mixed martial arts, or a elitist fan of a promotion that's considered to be the best? Honest question, because I don't understand the logic. And if this were Bellator being sued, would those opposed to this lawsuit have the same opinions? I truly wonder.

The fighters make this sport. They're the talent. They could fight in a high school gymnasium and broadcast it online with access via Paypal, and we would all pay to watch. Don't get me wrong, the promoters certainly play a role in the process but as fans, we should constantly recognize who has made MMA what it is. It wasn't the UFC. They were going belly up if not for Forrest & Bonnar having that brawl on Spike TV. Chuck & Tito got them thru the lean years. Let's remember who we pay to watch here. The talent deserves their fair share of the pie.

 

[Ryann Von Doom]

Why did they wait until the UFC stopping signing their checks to file a lawsuit? If it's so horrible to work for the UFC why are there not any active employees signed on as plaintiffs? I think @DannyNL has a valid reason to question the plaintiffs motives.

There will be repercussions if they do so. That's why.

 

[Ryann Von Doom]

I just dont see how one could be a fan of MMA, and side for organizations over fighters. If you're a UFC fan, can you really consider yourself an MMA fan? Are you a fan of mixed martial arts, or a elitist fan of a promotion that's considered to be the best? Honest question, because I don't understand the logic. And if this were Bellator being sued, would those opposed to this lawsuit have the same opinions? I truly wonder.

The fighters make this sport. They're the talent. They could fight in a high school gymnasium and broadcast it online with access via Paypal, and we would all pay to watch. Don't get me wrong, the promoters certainly play a role in the process but as fans, we should constantly recognize who has made MMA what it is. It wasn't the UFC. They were going belly up if not for Forrest & Bonnar having that brawl on Spike TV. Chuck & Tito got them thru the lean years. Let's remember who we pay to watch here. The talent deserves their fair share of the pie.

And Ken Shamrock lending his name to the TUF finale.

 

[Narcosynthesis]

There will be repercussions if they do so. That's why.

But the UFC is bad. Everything else is good. Why should they care about repercussions? Hell if they're lucky the UFC will let them go and they can join Bellator and get that sponsor money.

 

[Ryann Von Doom]

But the UFC is bad. Everything else is good. Why should they care about repercussions? Hell if they're lucky the UFC will let them go and they can join Bellator and get that sponsor money.

You can't Quit the UFC. Not exactly hard to understand.. they cut people all the time, but at the same time they don't allow anyone to just up and leave. Look at Wanderlei.. He's been stuck in purgatory because they wont release his contract when they WONT give him a fight.

 

[Narcosynthesis]

You can't Quit the UFC. Not exactly hard to understand.. they cut people all the time, but at the same time they don't allow anyone to just up and leave. Look at Wanderlei.. He's been stuck in purgatory because they wont release his contract when they WONT give him a fight.

I'm playing devil's advocate here a little but:

1. Wand doesn't get any sympathy from me.

2. The UFC is bad. Why sign with them in the first place? They used to be even worse.

I see this talk about a fighters association being pushed by disgruntled former UFC fighters and possibly 3rd party entities working behind the scenes that would benefit from seeing the UFC taken down a peg. The vast majority of fighters employed by the UFC aren't saying anything. This could be because they are waiting to see what happens with the lawsuit or maybe they see the UFC is starting to make a change on its own or maybe they're just happy. I know this, there's not going to be any fighters union without the support of the top fighters (those that bring in the revenue) and champions.

 

[Ryann Von Doom]

I'm playing devil's advocate here a little but:

1. Wand doesn't get any sympathy from me.

2. The UFC is bad. Why sign with them in the first place? They used to be even worse.

I see this talk about a fighters association being pushed by disgruntled former UFC fighters and possibly 3rd party entities working behind the scenes that would benefit from seeing the UFC taken down a peg. The vast majority of fighters employed by the UFC aren't saying anything. This could be because they are waiting to see what happens with the lawsuit or maybe they see the UFC is starting to make a change on its own or maybe they're just happy. I know this, there's not going to be any fighters union without the support of the top fighters (those that bring in the revenue) and champions.

1. I dont care if you give none, its the principle of the matter.
2. Regionals don't make you enough. For an org that claims to be the NFL of the sport, they sure don't pay like it.
3. The fighters union has been around for a while and you're seeing a nervous Zuffa starting to retaliate. They are terrified of that happening because of all their profits will go to those who rightfully deserve it.
4. You're right in a sense, its like the prowrestling union in the 80s that Hogan killed. He didnt get on board as a favor to mcmahon and it killed the movement.. that's why you see zuffa do certain things to certain fighters to gather their favor.
5. The fighters aren't employees like you're trying to make them out to be, they are independant contractors and are not treated as such.
6. Again the point of if they are with the UFC where can they go? I literally cannot leave their contract and with the extentions Zuffa added(thanks to heath telling them to fuck themselves and waiting out the contract he had) they are stuck there for life? Does that sound reasonable? Doesnt to me.

 

[Wild]

The vast majority of fighters employed by the UFC aren't saying anything

Not publicly. But R @Rob Maysey has said A LOT of current fighters on the roster have reached out to him, on the basis of remaining anonymous until this lawsuit is settled. Some being names that might surprise people. So I wouldn't read too much into the silence. They're scared shitless to say anything publicly right now.

 

[Narcosynthesis]

1. I dont care if you give none, its the principle of the matter.
2. Regionals don't make you enough. For an org that claims to be the NFL of the sport, they sure don't pay like it.
3. The fighters union has been around for a while and you're seeing a nervous Zuffa starting to retaliate. They are terrified of that happening because of all their profits will go to those who rightfully deserve it.
4. You're right in a sense, its like the prowrestling union in the 80s that Hogan killed. He didnt get on board as a favor to mcmahon and it killed the movement.. that's why you see zuffa do certain things to certain fighters to gather their favor.
5. The fighters aren't employees like you're trying to make them out to be, they are independant contractors and are not treated as such.
6. Again the point of if they are with the UFC where can they go? I literally cannot leave their contract and with the extentions Zuffa added(thanks to heath telling them to fuck themselves and waiting out the contract he had) they are stuck there for life? Does that sound reasonable? Doesnt to me.

1. The UFC doesn't care about Wand either after all the shit he's talked. You're right, it's the principle of the matter.

2. The UFC can't be compared to the NFL in any way. The NFL makes more on one game (The Super Bowl) than the UFC makes in all their fights combined over the course of 2 years. Obviously, there is more to pay the players. We need to be talking about percentages and that is something nobody knows when it comes to the UFC's financials, not even the plaintiffs in the lawsuit right now.

3. Unions bring good things and bad things.

4. The UFC takes special care of fighters who bring in the most revenue. That's the same as any other company on the planet because business is about profit not charity.

5. They are independent contractors and must be treated as such. The IRS is always watching.

6. Independent contractors sign binding contracts for a certain period of time. They know this when they put their signature on the document.

7. Someone mentioned the UFC owning the the fighter's image for life. That's wrong. The UFC owns all the works created while that fighter was under contract - fight footage, interviews, etc. They do not own the fighter's image.

 

[Narcosynthesis]

Not publicly. But R @Rob Maysey has said A LOT of current fighters on the roster have reached out to him, on the basis of remaining anonymous until this lawsuit is settled. Some being names that might surprise people. So I wouldn't read too much into the silence. They're scared shitless to say anything publicly right now.

Of course he would say this. It doesn't push his agenda to say nobody seems to care except for a few disgruntled ex UFC fighters.

 

[Wild]

Are you lying R @Rob Maysey?

 

[Ryann Von Doom]

1. The UFC doesn't care about Wand either after all the shit he's talked. You're right, it's the principle of the matter.

2. The UFC can't be compared to the NFL in any way. The NFL makes more on one game (The Super Bowl) than the UFC makes in all their fights combined over the course of 2 years. Obviously, there is more to pay the players. We need to be talking about percentages and that is something nobody knows when it comes to the UFC's financials, not even the plaintiffs in the lawsuit right now.

3. Unions bring good things and bad things.

4. The UFC takes special care of fighters who bring in the most revenue. That's the same as any other company on the planet because business is about profit not charity.

5. They are independent contractors and must be treated as such. The IRS is always watching.

6. Independent contractors sign binding contracts for a certain period of time. They know this when they put their signature on the document.

7. Someone mentioned the UFC owning the the fighter's image for life. That's wrong. The UFC owns all the works created while that fighter was under contract - fight footage, interviews, etc. They do not own the fighter's image.

1. the UFC will not supply Wand with fights, so how is it they are not in breach of contract? They don't compensate him for anything but hold on to the contract. Wand didn't start the shit talking until they started with this.

2. Zuffa made the comparison, just sayin.

3. That is truth.

4. They do that so they continue to foster resentment and keep majority of the fighters down. Divide and rule.

5. They ARENT treated like ICs. They are treated as employees without the benefits of being as such.

6. Over that time, but Zuffa has the ability to extend contracts out indefinitely if they want. Again, if you decide to wait out the contract to fight somewhere else you might not since they can extend indefinitely.

7. Its what fitch and the rest of AKA got fired for. They own the licensing rights for as long as Zuffa lives. Its apart of the one sided contracts they hand out as standard issue.

i'm sure you're playing devils advocate.. lol But Zuffa has stacked the deck against the fighters since Day one. I know it's a business.. but if you're in a sport, the athletes themselves are the product and deserve far more than what they are getting and NEED an association to collective bargain for them.

 

[Ryann Von Doom]

Of course he would say this. It doesn't push his agenda to say nobody seems to care except for a few disgruntled ex UFC fighters.

It's easy to say this when you're on zuffa's side. Most talk behind the scenes because they know they will have retaliation against them.

 

[teamquestnorth]

The UFC isn't obligated to give a fighter who is currently under suspension, any fights at all.

The Wand issue is totally irrelevant to all this.

Wand knew the game he was playing when he sprinted from the gym and fled the country while making angry weird YouTube videos.

Just think, if he would have actually took the test, he probably would already be off suspension.

The lawsuit however, I support 100%

 

[Narcosynthesis]

It's easy to say this when you're on zuffa's side. Most talk behind the scenes because they know they will have retaliation against them.

I'm not on anybody's side. I'm just pointing out some things and keeping this discussion going. I admit I don't have enough information to say what the UFC should or should not be doing. That's the lawsuit is about, isn't it? Exposing the UFC's financials so they can be dissected. Too bad none of us will ever see them.

 

[Ted Williams' head]

So by some of what you said in here it seems you think of the fighters as employees.

I'm sure it does. I'm not a businessman or lawyer, I'm just some asshole. The fuck do I know?

It looks like I'm outnumbered so I'll concede defeat for now... but I will be lying in the wait, hoping for this lawsuit to fail and when it does I'll salute the black, white and gold of the Zuffa flag because I, for one, welcome our new vulgar, bald overlord.

 

[ThatOneDude]

I'm sure it does. I'm not a businessman or lawyer, I'm just some asshole. The fuck do I know?

It looks like I'm outnumbered so I'll concede defeat for now... but I will be lying in the wait, hoping for this lawsuit to fail and when it does I'll salute the black, white and gold of the Zuffa flag because I, for one, welcome our new vulgar, bald overlord.

How much they tossing your way for each post?

 

[Wild]

How much they tossing your way for each post?

If it's more than 70 cents per post, I want in. The site has to be funded somehow.

 

[Ministry of Silly Walks]

It was in his contract that he had to do a certain number of media appearances. To my knowledge, even top Hollywood actors have that built into their contract when they finish and have to promote a movie. Do NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB/ect get paid for press conferences and TV interviews? I don't think so.

As far as I know, that comes along with the purse. The 500k or whatever Diaz was going to get paid for the GSP fight stipulated him to fight and show up for a certain number of media appearances, so technically he was being compensated for them.

did you read his contract, or is that something you heard?