General Corona virus updates

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Yossarian

TMMAC Addict
Oct 25, 2015
13,485
19,123
Airlines are already losing tons of money because of the travel bans.
If they shut down domestic travel as well, the losses will be astronomical.

They have fixed expenses that don't stop when the nation hits the pause button, and none of this is their fault. You can make an argument that they should have been reserving some cash instead of doing stock buybacks, but that practice certainly isn't unique to airline companies. Plus airlines don't operate on huge margins. The gross dollar amounts are huge, but the net profit is small by comparison - so if you shut down the incoming cash it doesn't take very long to be in a bankrupt situation.

When this is behind us and the country gets back to work, people will need jobs. If we have to wait on airlines to sort their shit out after bankruptcies/mergers/closings in the aftermath that isn't good for anyone. We only have 4 huge airline companies in the United States as it is (American, Delta, Southwest and United). Without a bailout to keep them all whole, we'll likely see some consolidating. So instead of 4 big airlines, we'll only have 2. Or even 1. That creates a whole other set of problems down the road that will last a lot longer than a virus.

As a rule - I hate bailouts. But this one is needed.
They should definitely make sure the money is used to keep their business afloat and their employees as whole as possible, not to line the pockets of stockholders and executives.
We'll have to depend on local economies like always after a recession. They should've put money aside, small businesses face the same problems without the possibility of bailouts.
 

Yossarian

TMMAC Addict
Oct 25, 2015
13,485
19,123
I, unlike the dipshits, have decided to stockpile beer. When shit goes down, who do you think will have the best bartering currency?

(Not to say I'm giving up my beer)
You mean the bottlecaps like in Fallout 4 right. Tell me this is true!
 

silentsinger

Momofuku
Jun 23, 2015
21,038
14,457
How do you guys think this would have played out pre-internet?
Blessing and a curse I think. It's useful to get up to the minute information and stay in touch with loved ones in a support level and seriously most of you lot here have helped keep me sane. But the curse is I can't stop looking at the internet for information, to the point of obsession.
 

FINGERS

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
17,004
19,818
Does anyone think this might be a catalyst for real change?

Do you think people will finally wake up and realise the world is a finite resource and should be shared in a more equal way?
 
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lueVelvet

WHERT DA FERCK?
Aug 29, 2015
5,043
7,448
Does anyone think this might be a catalyst for real change?

Do you think people will finally wake up and realise the word is a finite resource and should be shared in a more equal way?
I would like to imagine that’s the case but I’m not sure if shits hit the fan enough for folks to deviate from their echo chambers. I see it a little bit but not sure it’s enough to suggest that a major shift in societal thinking is happening yet.
 

FINGERS

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
17,004
19,818
I would like to imagine that’s the case but I’m not sure if shits hit the fan enough for folks to deviate from their echo chambers. I see it a little bit but not sure it’s enough to suggest that a major shift in societal thinking is happening yet.

I've had a theory for a while now that a new society will happen around the end of this century.

That's how long it will take for people to realise they are being taken for a ride.

Could be a while lot sooner if this is as bad as we are told it is.
 

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
48,347
60,383
They should've put money aside, small businesses face the same problems without the possibility of bailouts.
Very, very few publicly traded companies stash away their cash. It's actually frowned upon by investors. They want cash flooded back into the company to promote growth.

I agree about small businesses needing to be self-reliant so they can survive hardship, but you don't have 4 small businesses employing 360,000+ people. That's why the big guys get the preferential treatment.
 
D

Deleted member 1

Guest
You can make an argument that they should have been reserving some cash instead of doing stock buybacks, but that practice certainly isn't unique to airline companies.
If any company gets a bail out from this process, they should all be banned from stock buy backs for 100 years or something.
Otherwise the bailout just becomes a liquidity mechanism that they will redirect to their CEO and top 1% shareholders via stock buy back on the recovery.
 

FINGERS

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
17,004
19,818
If any company gets a bail out from this process, they should all be banned from stock buy backs for 100 years or something.
Otherwise the bailout just becomes a liquidity mechanism that they will redirect to their CEO and top 1% shareholders via stock buy back on the recovery.

Surely the 'bail out' is just buying the company?

How is it any different to a takeover?
 

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
48,347
60,383
I agree to a point.
They can put stipulations on the bailout that the money is to be used to keep their workers whole. Salaries continue. Benefits continue. Stop the buybacks.

But it doesn't do much good to bail out the workers and the workers only if - after 2 months - they don't have a job at all. You have to keep companies intact so the jobs are still there when we come out of this.
 

FINGERS

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
17,004
19,818
I agree to a point.
They can put stipulations on the bailout that the money is to be used to keep their workers whole. Salaries continue. Benefits continue. Stop the buybacks.

But it doesn't do much good to bail out the workers and the workers only if - after 2 months - they don't have a job at all. You have to keep companies intact so the jobs are still there when we come out of this.

We the people will own the companies.

We paid for it

They work for us and any profit is plowed back to help society grow and be better.

I think people are starting to see this as a reality now

Why should our money be given away again and again?
 

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
48,347
60,383
If any company gets a bail out from this process, they should all be banned from stock buy backs for 100 years or something.
Otherwise the bailout just becomes a liquidity mechanism that they will redirect to their CEO and top 1% shareholders via stock buy back on the recovery.
I don't disagree.
Although instead of using stock incentives they can just overpay executives with profits. It's hard to police where the cash goes.

I'd like for it to be structured as a loan of some sort.
 
D

Deleted member 1

Guest
We the people will own the companies.

We paid for it

They work for us and any profit is plowed back to help society grow and be better.

I think people are starting to see this as a reality now

Why should our money be given away again and again?
Why do I want to be on the taxpayer hook to run an industry that is already efficiently run? Why do I want to interrupt that and be responsible if I screw it up via government?
With the exception of fee gouging in the lat 4-5 years (this should just be regulated with fair advertising so you have easy apples to apples comparisons) an average airline ticket is HALF what it was in 1980 adjusted for inflation. And even with fees we are still only about $10 more expensive than 10 years ago. The fee structure has lowered entry to Americans that would not have been able to fly in the past. The USA airline industry is more solvent and robust than anywhere else in the entire world. The rest of the world looks like our old model from the 1980's with constant subsidies and bankruptcies. We've already done that and it sucks. It also means flying remains only for the rich. We went through 30 years of mergers and restructuring of bad airlines to get to where we are now. I am 100% against messing that up and coronavirus economic responses should be just that...responses for this temporary time and get out of the way.