General Corona virus updates

[Grateful Dude]

You're talking 2 doses, right? Because you have another 13-14% that have received 1 dose.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Yeah, I was referring to those fully vaccinated. I just looked it up, and 5.96 million doses have been given, with 2.07 million being fully vaccinated now (which is 7.13%). And we're still in phase 1A and 1B, so I still have quite a while to wait I think....

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

@Splinty - percent agree?

Your Local Epidemiologist Update:

Throughout this pandemic, science (and particularly public health) has been politicized. I don’t fully understand why, but it has and was highlighted yesterday by Abbott’s decision. In short, there’s a battle between individual freedom and population health.
This morning a friend posted their argument for supporting Abbott’s decision. Their statements are in quotations, and my epidemiological perspective follows...
1. “Greg Abbott doesn’t control your life”.
You’re (kind of) right. As a leader he sets a precedent and tone. And the tone he is setting completely undermines scientists, doctors, nurses, and public health workers that have literally thrown themselves at this pandemic to help you. So, no he doesn’t control our life, but he certainly isn’t making it easier.

2. “If you don’t feel comfortable not wearing a mask in public then don’t; wear one”.
Masks DO protect the wearer (especially an N95) but not as much as they protect the people around the wearer. So, when a masked person stands in line behind an unmasked person, they aren’t fully protected (they could still get the virus). The masked person IS helping the unmasked person though (you’re welcome). Masks only work best when everyone is wearing one.
3. “Don’t feel comfortable sitting in a dinning room at a restaurant that is at full capacity take it Togo”.
What about the servers? Or hostesses? Or cooks? Or restaurant managers? Full capacity directly impacts their risk (even if they continue to wear a mask. see #2). So, is this argument telling them to quit? Or worse, forcing them to decide between an income and health? Also, only 7.1% of the Texas population is fully vaccinated and only 1b is eligible. So even if servers wanted to fully protect themselves, they haven’t had the opportunity to. In addition to restaurant workers, I’m looking at the teachers and the grocery store workers and gas station attendants (just to name a few).

4. “If you don’t feel comfortable going out, things have adapted to get you what you need without leaving your house.”
I don’t have a scientific argument for selfishness.

5. “We are all adults we can make our own decisions that is best for us and our families. No one is stopping you from protecting yourself.”
Viruses actually don’t work like this. The most threatening thing right now is mutations. The more this thing jumps from person to person (yes, even if you’re asymptomatic) the more opportunity it has to mutate. The more it mutates, the more likely the virus can outsmart our vaccines. So, yes, we can make our own decisions. But your decision to let the virus jump from person to person actually does “stop us from protecting ourselves”.

Bottom line: The virus couldn’t care less of this individualistic approach. In fact, it gives the virus an advantage. In order to successfully combat an infectious disease, we all have to be on the same team.

Some colleagues of mine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center found that Dallas could reach local herd immunity by June. I have no reason to believe that Dallas is different than any other city or town in Texas. WE ARE/WERE SO CLOSE. But we are tripping before the finish line. This decision likely pushes the end date further.
Love, YLE
For data sources, see my newsletter

Her: "I don't have a scientific argument for selfishness."

Also her: *makes scientific argument for selfishness*

 

[Deleted member 1]

@Splinty - percent agree?

Your Local Epidemiologist Update:

Throughout this pandemic, science (and particularly public health) has been politicized. I don’t fully understand why, but it has and was highlighted yesterday by Abbott’s decision. In short, there’s a battle between individual freedom and population health.
This morning a friend posted their argument for supporting Abbott’s decision. Their statements are in quotations, and my epidemiological perspective follows...
1. “Greg Abbott doesn’t control your life”.
You’re (kind of) right. As a leader he sets a precedent and tone. And the tone he is setting completely undermines scientists, doctors, nurses, and public health workers that have literally thrown themselves at this pandemic to help you. So, no he doesn’t control our life, but he certainly isn’t making it easier.

2. “If you don’t feel comfortable not wearing a mask in public then don’t; wear one”.
Masks DO protect the wearer (especially an N95) but not as much as they protect the people around the wearer. So, when a masked person stands in line behind an unmasked person, they aren’t fully protected (they could still get the virus). The masked person IS helping the unmasked person though (you’re welcome). Masks only work best when everyone is wearing one.
3. “Don’t feel comfortable sitting in a dinning room at a restaurant that is at full capacity take it Togo”.
What about the servers? Or hostesses? Or cooks? Or restaurant managers? Full capacity directly impacts their risk (even if they continue to wear a mask. see #2). So, is this argument telling them to quit? Or worse, forcing them to decide between an income and health? Also, only 7.1% of the Texas population is fully vaccinated and only 1b is eligible. So even if servers wanted to fully protect themselves, they haven’t had the opportunity to. In addition to restaurant workers, I’m looking at the teachers and the grocery store workers and gas station attendants (just to name a few).

4. “If you don’t feel comfortable going out, things have adapted to get you what you need without leaving your house.”
I don’t have a scientific argument for selfishness.

5. “We are all adults we can make our own decisions that is best for us and our families. No one is stopping you from protecting yourself.”
Viruses actually don’t work like this. The most threatening thing right now is mutations. The more this thing jumps from person to person (yes, even if you’re asymptomatic) the more opportunity it has to mutate. The more it mutates, the more likely the virus can outsmart our vaccines. So, yes, we can make our own decisions. But your decision to let the virus jump from person to person actually does “stop us from protecting ourselves”.

Bottom line: The virus couldn’t care less of this individualistic approach. In fact, it gives the virus an advantage. In order to successfully combat an infectious disease, we all have to be on the same team.

Some colleagues of mine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center found that Dallas could reach local herd immunity by June. I have no reason to believe that Dallas is different than any other city or town in Texas. WE ARE/WERE SO CLOSE. But we are tripping before the finish line. This decision likely pushes the end date further.
Love, YLE
For data sources, see my newsletter

Somewhere between 100 and 110%

This is purely political after we screwed up the ice storm completely.
The numbers don't support the move. This is a rejection of science. Thousands more will die And you aren't saving the economy You're just shifting the cost.

I've been a big proponent for a heterogeneous reopening across the entire country for a year. That means driving those reopenings with data. This is not data driven. This is purely politics and emotion which is ironic given the supporters like to think of themselves as factual arguers instead of emotional snowflakes.

We'll end up killing enough and vaccinating the rest in the next 6 months so this will be forgotten by his reelection. But it's stupid and terrible leadership.

 

[Deleted member 1]

I wonder when the governor will open his own mansion for tours again

Texas Governor’s Mansion Tours

gov.texas.gov

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

I wonder when the governor will open his own mansion for tours again

Texas Governor’s Mansion Tours

gov.texas.gov

You should tweet him and ask.

 

[Rambo John J]

So texas is open. No masks. No limits. Congrats on finding the cure. Good job, guys!

Opening up is the cure for lockdowns
Many residents fully support this cure

Lockdowns have taken a huge toll

 

[MMAHAWK]

Somewhere between 100 and 110%

This is purely political after we screwed up the ice storm completely.
The numbers don't support the move. This is a rejection of science. Thousands more will die And you aren't saving the economy You're just shifting the cost.

I've been a big proponent for a heterogeneous reopening across the entire country for a year. That means driving those reopenings with data. This is not data driven. This is purely politics and emotion which is ironic given the supporters like to think of themselves as factual arguers instead of emotional snowflakes.

We'll end up killing enough and vaccinating the rest in the next 6 months so this will be forgotten by his reelection. But it's stupid and terrible leadership.

Can’t help but wonder if you’re opinion would be opposite if you were wondering when your next paycheck would come or if you’re gonna have to close your business.


Does the science say it’s safe to go to packed Costco but not the go kart track or bowling alley?

California has been completely opposite of Texas with equal or worse results.

The science here said outdoor television in LA needs to be banned.

Restaurants can’t have indoor dining but an entire movie production company can spend a week filming a scene in a restaurant.

Perhaps if the science wasn’t just made up in many situations and we could actually see the science the public would accept it much more pleasantly.

 

[Filthy]

Can’t help but wonder if you’re opinion would be opposite if you were wondering when your next paycheck would come or if you’re gonna have to close your business.


Does the science say it’s safe to go to packed Costco but not the go kart track or bowling alley?

California has been completely opposite of Texas with equal or worse results.

The science here said outdoor television in LA needs to be banned.

Restaurants can’t have indoor dining but an entire movie production company can spend a week filming a scene in a restaurant.

Perhaps if the science wasn’t just made up in many situations and we could actually see the science the public would accept it much more pleasantly.

i get you, but you have to take ownership of President Trump's complete Fuck Science approach in this, too.

it's not just Cuomo and Gavin that made this about politics and trying to put their team over.

 

[Rambo John J]

Can’t help but wonder if you’re opinion would be opposite if you were wondering when your next paycheck would come or if you’re gonna have to close your business.


Does the science say it’s safe to go to packed Costco but not the go kart track or bowling alley?

Exactly

I don't think pro lockdown people that are collecting paychecks and not losing their businesses can put themselves in non essential shoes.

Businesses need to have the option to run their businesses as they see fit, they can limit capacity or require masks/spacing if they choose.

 

[Wintermute]

Greg Abbot can eat a dick.

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

i get you, but you have to take ownership of President Trump's complete Fuck Science approach in this, too.

it's not just Cuomo and Gavin that made this about politics and trying to put their team over.

No, he doesn't.

 

[Filthy]

No, he doesn't.

@MMAHAWK is an intellectually honest person.

 

[Filthy]

Exactly

I don't think pro lockdown people that are collecting paychecks and not losing their businesses can put themselves in non essential shoes.

Businesses need to have the option to run their businesses as they see fit, they can limit capacity or require masks/spacing if they choose.

agree, but there also needs to be protection in place for meatpackers and other folks.
not everybody is out framing houses in the sunshine.

so just like other "public health" concerns, we need to draw a minimum line. The issue is that the people in charge of drawing the line are doing so with only self-interest as a consideration.

 

[MMAHAWK]

i get you, but you have to take ownership of President Trump's complete Fuck Science approach in this, too.

it's not just Cuomo and Gavin that made this about politics and trying to put their team over.

So show me the science
Show me where Walmart is safe but Kohl’s isn’t

Show me the science that any form of dining added to numbers.

Show me the science that says a teacher in a real classroom is in danger but a movie filmed with kids in the class is safe.

 

[kaladin stormblessed]

Just going to throw this out there. If we stopped hating on the "extreme" left, we coud have voted in non-corrupt progressives a long time ago

- we would be getting monthly checks like other nations, instead of the past rescue packages which were wealth transfers to the top
- we would have universal healthcare like other nations, and thus, a better system in place to disseminate the vaccines

Just saying

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

@MMAHAWK is an intellectually honest person.

He was pointing out that science is being roundly ignored in policy making. Digging up the President of Christmas Past isn't relevant to the conversation.

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

Just going to throw this out there. If we stopped hating on the "extreme" left, we coud have voted in non-corrupt progressives a long time ago

- we would be getting monthly checks like other nations, instead of the past rescue packages which were wealth transfers to the top
- we would have universal healthcare like other nations, and thus, a better system in place to disseminate the vaccines

Just saying

You're going to be real sad when you get to Canada.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Can’t help but wonder if you’re opinion would be opposite if you were wondering when your next paycheck would come or if you’re gonna have to close your business.

Again just shifting the economic burden.
Virus outbreaks have been shutting down meat packing plants, hospitals, etc. for a year here in Texas with zero government cause of that.

There is absolutely nothing about wearing a mask that prevents a business from reopening.

 

[Filthy]

So show me the science
Show me where Walmart is safe but Kohl’s isn’t

Show me the science that any form of dining added to numbers.

Show me the science that says a teacher in a real classroom is in danger but a movie filmed with kids in the class is safe.

you're not answering the question, you're deflecting. Were the words and actions of President Trump and his political affiliates based on the best available science, or on their own self-interest.

Wal-Mart is a distributor of food and other essential stuff. Kohl's is not. Wal-Mart is arguably the largest essential goods distributor in the US. Kohl's is not. We're trying to manage the risk, not eliminate it.

There's plenty of evidence that putting people in close proximity without masks spreads the disease. It spreads every other respiratory virus, you should be showing me the evidence that this super-infectious respiratory virus is an outlier. And several case-studies of people in restaurants, buffets, funerals, or other large gatherings being source events for community spread and subsequent deaths.

so teachers in a classroom all day with kids is not the same as a 10 minute shot of a teacher and students in a classroom, especially if the fake teacher and students had viral screens every day of filming and were held in isolation during the shoot - things that aren't possible with real students and teachers.

 

[MMAHAWK]

you're not answering the question, you're deflecting. Were the words and actions of President Trump and his political affiliates based on the best available science, or on their own self-interest.

Wal-Mart is a distributor of food and other essential stuff. Kohl's is not. Wal-Mart is arguably the largest essential goods distributor in the US. Kohl's is not. We're trying to manage the risk, not eliminate it.

There's plenty of evidence that putting people in close proximity without masks spreads the disease. It spreads every other respiratory virus, you should be showing me the evidence that this super-infectious respiratory virus is an outlier. And several case-studies of people in restaurants, buffets, funerals, or other large gatherings being source events for community spread and subsequent deaths.

so teachers in a classroom all day with kids is not the same as a 10 minute shot of a teacher and students in a classroom, especially if the fake teacher and students had viral screens every day of filming and were held in isolation during the shoot - things that aren't possible with real students and teachers.

Not sure why trump is an issue. I never agreed with everything he said or did.
But I can also remember the current President and VP balking at the idea of taking the vaccine during the debates.

Now you stop dodging and show me the data that proves what you claim.

I’m also getting my second shot on Saturday. So clearly I’m able to understand both sides of the situation.

 

[Rambo John J]

agree, but there also needs to be protection in place for meatpackers and other folks.
not everybody is out framing houses in the sunshine.

so just like other "public health" concerns, we need to draw a minimum line. The issue is that the people in charge of drawing the line are doing so with only self-interest as a consideration.

Meat packers never had to shut down much I would guess

I am talking mostly about businesses that were deemed non-essential

Costcos having 2K people in them while mom and pop businesses are shuttered or have 6 person capacity is disgusting to me

I haven't lost a dollar from lockdowns, but some of my friends who have/had non essential restaurants and businesses are dying on the vine or already shuttered...honestly tough to watch


I understand some safety precautions...but I cannot justify the steps that were taken in most states.
Of course we all have different opinions and even regional data on the threat that corona is and did present.

It is tricky of course.

Personally, I would prefer a little more greg abbott style and a lot less kate brown.
Oregon is pathetically cautious and overly fearful(IMO).

I was hiking yesterday on a sunny windy 65 degree day, and the looks I got for not wearing masks on trails while never coming within 20 feet of another human(other than my gal) was amazing and sad...these people are scared beyond belief, crazy stuff...IMO this fear is way over the top, and it is turning ordinary nice healthy people into shame demons.
Had a great hike though.


Rant over...peace out folks


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pMsOLcdfdE

 

[MMAHAWK]

Again just shifting the economic burden.
Virus outbreaks have been shutting down meat packing plants, hospitals, etc. for a year here in Texas with zero government cause of that.

There is absolutely nothing about wearing a mask that prevents a business from reopening.

There’s also nothing about wearing masks that will stop an outbreak at those businesses.

Or should all business have been left alone and allowed to remain 100% if they have a mask policy?

With masks how
Much capacity does science say a bowling alley can have?

 

[Filthy]

Not sure why trump is an issue. I never agreed with everything he said or did.
But I can also remember the current President and VP balking at the idea of taking the vaccine during the debates.

Now you stop dodging and show me the data that proves what you claim.

I’m also getting my second shot on Saturday. So clearly I’m able to understand both sides of the situation.

they balked at a hypothetical, did they balk at the science?

Trump is an issue because you claimed that science isn't being followed, but that's been the case from the beginning. Obviously you're able to see the situation for what it is, but the science never had a chance. I don't think the recommendations of science have changed much, especially if you recognized that neither the WHO, CDC, or NHS (Fauci) were ever doing science.

But what data are you looking for to support my claim?...the data that proves that SARS-COV2 is highly infectious and spread through respiratory contact?
I explained the false equivalencies of your examples, what are you looking for?

 

[Deleted member 1]

There’s also nothing about wearing masks that will stop an outbreak at those businesses.

This isn't true.

Or should all business have been left alone and allowed to remain 100% if they have a mask policy?

You've been sold a dichotomy that you have to choose everything one direction or another. The hypocrisy and shortcomings of your governor should it be misconstrued as what I'm advocating. Again I shouldn't even have to say that since this whole line of questioning is a bit in bad faith...I began highlighting that I've been calling for heterogeneous reopenings for a year.

Much capacity does science say a bowling alley can have?

That isn't how you do this.
Case count versus resources versus economic penalty.
You're framing the question all wrong from a misunderstanding of the epidemiology intentions.

there are activities that are higher in lower risk than others. There are interventions that are more effective than others. There are interventions that cost more harm than others.

Once you step out of the idea of all or none, you can then see which interventions have minimal harm that is minimal cost for maximum benefit.
The exact same thing can happen for higher risk and lower risk activities. That's what the science says.

Reopening should have been federalized based on case counts county level resources. Levels of interventions starting from the least harmful to the most harmful should have been applied.

again this whole conversation is a bit in bad faith since you and I have already had a conversation about California doing quite the opposite of what I've suggested All the way to linking large geographic areas together that don't have much in common with case counts resources or population density.

 

[Filthy]

There’s also nothing about wearing masks that will stop an outbreak at those businesses.

Or should all business have been left alone and allowed to remain 100% if they have a mask policy?

With masks how
Much capacity does science say a bowling alley can have?

depends on the bowling alley in question, the pervasiveness of community spread, and the compliance with contact tracing.