General Russia Ukraine round 2 Price hike boogaloo

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Sheepdog

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
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Lars said:
Q @Qat

www.spiegel.de

Possible Evidence of Russian Atrocities: German Intelligence Intercepts Radio Traffic Discussing the Murder of Civilians in Bucha

The images of the murdered civilians in Bucha shocked the world. DER SPIEGEL has learned that German intelligence intercepted radio traffic from suspected perpetrators. It appears that such atrocities were part of the strategy of Putin's army.
www.spiegel.de www.spiegel.de
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Hey bruv, for nobody being in Azov and Zelensky's government having nothing to do with them, they sure seem to show up together a lot, don't they? It's always quite the coincidence. And what brilliant PR.

Greek Parliament Platforms Azov Battalion Fighter: Gov't Spox Says "it Was Wrong And Inappropriate" — Greek City Times
 
Elzio Vontell

Elzio Vontell

Active Member
Apr 6, 2022
66
59
I have a hard time with Biden talking about protecting any NATO nation threatened by Putin, but he is so worried about making Putin mad over Ukraine. So this is all about a label? If I were in charge I give Putin this option......leave right now or Ukraine becomes our new NATO member so do we have an understanding?

What a bad time to have Biden, we need a strong man running the show.
 
D

Deleted member 1

Guest
Elzio Vontell said:
I have a hard time with Biden talking about protecting any NATO nation threatened by Putin, but he is so worried about making Putin mad over Ukraine. So this is all about a label? If I were in charge I give Putin this option......leave right now or Ukraine becomes our new NATO member so do we have an understanding?

What a bad time to have Biden, we need a strong man running the show.
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I know what you were saying but it's a really hard balance.
There's not a great precedent for incorporating an actively invaded country into NATO. If we pull Ukraine into NATO now by definition, we must immediately go into a hot war with Russia as it's being attacked as a member of NATO.
Russian forces inside of Ukraine would get absolutely schooled with air superiority. It would be an absolute bloodbath. However, that doesn't mean that Russia's only option. They don't have to just sit there inside of Ukraine back and forth in a conventional war. They know they will lose that.
So following us making Ukraine too painful for Russia. Russia might retaliate by invading ethnic, Russian, sympathetic areas of other Baltic states. This is their long-term game anyway. And so why the hell not if everything's on the table suddenly.
Back and forth back and forth until Russia is left with only one option and that is tactical nuclear weapons. The goal is, of course a slow boil so that there is time to frame a ceasefire and withdrawal.
If you ratchet things up back and forth too quickly, there is not time for negotiation. And once Russia hits multiple states and or uses some amount of nuclear arsenal how can we further escalate to stop and make them penalize? A non-nuclear country or one with less nuclear weapons would be invaded in the leadership removed. Are we going to invade Russia and retaliation for such actions? Are we going to nuke them back?
 
Elzio Vontell

Elzio Vontell

Active Member
Apr 6, 2022
66
59
Splinty said:
I know what you were saying but it's a really hard balance.
There's not a great precedent for incorporating an actively invaded country into NATO. If we pull Ukraine into NATO now by definition, we must immediately go into a hot war with Russia as it's being attacked as a member of NATO.
Russian forces inside of Ukraine would get absolutely schooled with air superiority. It would be an absolute bloodbath. However, that doesn't mean that Russia's only option. They don't have to just sit there inside of Ukraine back and forth in a conventional war. They know they will lose that.
So following us making Ukraine too painful for Russia. Russia might retaliate by invading ethnic, Russian, sympathetic areas of other Baltic states. This is their long-term game anyway. And so why the hell not if everything's on the table suddenly.
Back and forth back and forth until Russia is left with only one option and that is tactical nuclear weapons. The goal is, of course a slow boil so that there is time to frame a ceasefire and withdrawal.
If you ratchet things up back and forth too quickly, there is not time for negotiation. And once Russia hits multiple states and or uses some amount of nuclear arsenal how can we further escalate to stop and make them penalize? A non-nuclear country or one with less nuclear weapons would be invaded in the leadership removed. Are we going to invade Russia and retaliation for such actions? Are we going to nuke them back?
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So what are we left with? Let Putin continue to level Ukraine killing innocent people for as long as he wants? Hell, this could go on for a decade. So Ukraine will never go back to a normal existence? Something has to give and the USA and NATO have to be the ones to make the difference. We can't continue to be afraid of of what Putin might do, that just won't work.

We can say......forget Ukraine let Putin level the place and kill all of them....if we aren't going that route then we need to stop playing the BS we are playing now, send in the migs, and everything we can so those great Ukraine warriors can wrap this up.

Ukraine can win which helps everyone, just give them whatever they need. And yes threatening NATO for Ukraine should be a very real option one that Putin is aware of.

Somebody needs to be causing damage in Moscow, a few boxes of matchs would do wonders.
 
D

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Elzio Vontell said:
So what are we left with? Let Putin continue to level Ukraine killing innocent people for as long as he wants? Hell, this could go on for a decade. So Ukraine will never go back to a normal existence? Something has to give and the USA and NATO have to be the ones to make the difference. We can't continue to be afraid of of what Putin might do, that just won't work.

We can say......forget Ukraine let Putin level the place and kill all of them....if we aren't going that route then we need to stop playing the BS we are playing now, send in the migs, and everything we can so those great Ukraine warriors can wrap this up.

Ukraine can win which helps everyone, just give them whatever they need. And yes threatening NATO for Ukraine should be a very real option one that Putin is aware of.

Somebody needs to be causing damage in Moscow, a few boxes of matchs would do wonders.
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I think the play here is to make Ukraine as painful as possible. We'll also offering an out that seems like a good deal versus wrecking the economy and endless Russian deaths.

I definitely don't suggest appeasement. I'm just saying that we probably could get this done with both carrot and stick and not just stick.
 
Elzio Vontell

Elzio Vontell

Active Member
Apr 6, 2022
66
59
Splinty said:
I think the play here is to make Ukraine as painful as possible. We'll also offering an out that seems like a good deal versus wrecking the economy and endless Russian deaths.

I definitely don't suggest appeasement. I'm just saying that we probably could get this done with both carrot and stick and not just stick.
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It simply makes no sense, this.....boy if Putin messes with a NATO nation here we come......then play what we are over Ukraine with....let's not piss Putin off......what??? No worries pissing him off over NATO, so...???

This has to stop.
 
D

Deleted member 1

Guest
Elzio Vontell said:
It simply makes no sense, this.....boy if Putin messes with a NATO nation here we come......then play what we are over Ukraine with....let's not piss Putin off......what??? No worries pissing him off over NATO, so...???

This has to stop.
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I don't think we should escalate the conflict more than we have to. But I also agree that biden's talk and all of this has been ridiculous. All the way for the beginning when he basically said that we wouldn't do anything if there was only a little invasion. His ambiguity is very dangerous.
 
Elzio Vontell

Elzio Vontell

Active Member
Apr 6, 2022
66
59
Splinty said:
I don't think we should escalate the conflict more than we have to. But I also agree that biden's talk and all of this has been ridiculous. All the way for the beginning when he basically said that we wouldn't do anything if there was only a little invasion. His ambiguity is very dangerous.
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The thing is if we are going to help Ukraine then we need to do everything we can, this .....that might be offensive.....just won't work, send in the migs. Once Russia invaded everything Ukraine does is defensive, a common sense thing.

Dude, punchs you in the face, so you worry about just how much you can retaliate with, hahahaha!!!
 
Sheepdog

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,224
At least France is safe according to Marine Le Pen.

'Scare-mongering which entails saying that unless Emmanuel Macron is re-elected, it will be a crisis, the sun will be extinguished, the sea will disappear and we’ll suffer an invasion of frogs, no longer works,” Le Pen told RTL'

gulfnews.com

Le Pen vows headscarf fines in tight French election battle

Far-right candidate says ban would be enforced in same way as seatbelt-wearing in cars
gulfnews.com gulfnews.com

 
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