General 14 students, 1 teacher dead following mass school shooting in Texas

[Splinty]

 

[Lukewarm Carl]

Empathy and Counseling for at-risk kids

I am so down for that.

But after all of the shootings that have occurred... Not a damn thing has progressed.

At this point, I'll take any possible step that may stop one of these broken people from carrying out these attacks.

Not just throw a protective blanket over them to keep the Boogeymen away after they've gotten in. But to stop it from happening.

 

[Filthy]

I am so down for that.

But after all of the shootings that have occurred... Not a damn thing has progressed.

At this point, I'll take any possible step that may stop one of these broken people from carrying out these attacks.

Not just throw a protective blanket over them to keep the Boogeymen away after they've gotten in. But to stop it from happening.

"all"?

i think if you look at the infrequency of these events, you'll see that we're invoking huge social upheaval, with no realistic expectation of less violence, by targeting one particular means of violence instead of the common source of the violence.

 

[Filthy]

View attachment 68742

if every shooting near a school is a school shooting...

did you get that from Brady or Our Town?

LoL

 

[Filthy]

We've already discussed this. The second amendment is not absolute. Permits for concealed carry and automatic weapons and NFA tax stamp requirements already show this.

Neither is a right that doesn't involve purchasing a physical item that changes with technology over time. Freedom of speech is not 100% absolute in all scenarios. You could probably say anything you want in your own home. And we all acknowledge that there are gradients where societal interests begins to play when you yell fire in the crowded movie, theater or state public lies or threats.

look up the Miller decision and see if that jives with your expectation of "due process"

while you're at it, look up the "fire in a crowded theater" decision you just cited.

LoL

 

[Splinty]

How many mass shootings would have been prevented with the AWB?

We are all aware that the assault weapons ban was circumvented by gun manufacturers and that Congress purposely did not have the appetite to chase these workarounds.

Semi automatic rifles with 30 round magazines make a formidable killing device in the hands of untrained idiots. Uvalde, parkland, Las Vegas, Sandy Hook, buffalo, etc etc would have been significantly less successful with the forced requirement to reload due to lower capacity magazine and/or from a different style of weapon.

Wiggle all you want. Uvalde shooter shows up with a two-shot double barrel shotgun reloading after every two and things look real different.

 

[Splinty]

look up the Miller decision and see if that jives with your expectation of "due process"

while you're at it, look up the "fire in a crowded theater" decision you just cited.

LoL

I'm not going to spend time on either. You're aware that free speech is not absolute. Neither is the right to protest. Neither is the second amendment.

 

[nuraknu]

Ok I'm just starting to possibly understand what may have happened to the last kid that got shot - don't know what's true but the police told her to yell for help, before they secured the shooter. Like to distract the shooter. And he shot her.

 

[Filthy]

We are all aware that the assault weapons ban was circumvented by gun manufacturers and that Congress purposely did not have the appetite to chase these workarounds.

Semi automatic rifles with 30 round magazines make a formidable killing device in the hands of untrained idiots. Uvalde, parkland, Las Vegas, Sandy Hook, buffalo, etc etc would have been significantly less successful with the forced requirement to reload due to lower capacity magazine and/or from a different style of weapon.

Wiggle all you want. Uvalde shooter shows up with a two-shot double barrel shotgun reloading after every two and things look real different.

any firearm is a formidable killing device.

so is diesel fuel.

the AWB did nothing because it target non-functional variations in firearms. What's your solution? ban high capacity magazines?

how many are there in circulation? how hard are they to manufacture?

convince me that banning something does anything but make sure only cops and criminals can access it, then acknowledge that criminals won't use it against cops - they'll use it against defenestrated civilians.

 

[Filthy]

I'm not going to spend time on either. You're aware that free speech is not absolute. Neither is the right to protest. Neither is the second amendment.

sure. cover your eyes and ears and pretend the world is something it isn't.

completely in line with your "solution"

 

[Filthy]

@Splinty - free speech is absolute, within the framework of the 1st Amendment.

so is the right to keep and bear arms by the 2nd.

 

[Splinty]

"all"?

i think if you look at the infrequency of these events, you'll see that we're invoking huge social upheaval, with no realistic expectation of less violence, by targeting one particular means of violence instead of the common source of the violence.

Your post basically remind me of coal gas in England and suicides off the Golden gate bridge.

You're simply trying to swing the conversation towards one issue instead of the other. The issue is both. The term is coupling.

Until the 1950s in England, a very common suicide method was to place one's head in the oven. They used town gas or coal gas. It was odorless and could kill you painlessly. Alternatives included natural gas that had odor and took larger amounts to kill you.
Despite other countries moving to natural gas to the safety of it, English society spent decades basically blaming those committing suicide.
Arguments included how such a driven person would simply kill themselves some other way. The cost was too high. Suicides and accident leak deaths from this gas didn't happen that often. So who cares.

Likewise, when people started jumping off the Golden gate bridge, some people called to place netting so that the person would not fall into the water killing themselves. Same arguments about how a committed person is going to do it anyways.

But what happened when somebody sat on the Golden gate bridge and stopped the jumper? Greater than 90% would not go on to commit suicide. Suicide is an impulsive fleeting move.

When we added nets to the Golden gate bridge three decades after this knowledge that if you could just stop that suicide from being completed that the person would likely go on to get help, hundreds of people a year are estimated to have not going on to complete suicide due to this intervention.

When England got rid of coal gas total suicides went down. People did not convert to a different type of suicide 90% of the time.

Homicide is very similar. And rampage mass shootings, with the exception of a couple of psychotic individuals that had schizophrenia symptoms, Or really just an extension of suicidal tendencies. It is the ultimate nihilism wanting to put the pain onto others that they have for themselves. This is why so many of them often kill themselves as well. It's part of the ultimate plan of going out in style.

When a person is depressed or homicidal we try to remove guns from that person. Removing them from their access lowers their risk of suicide or homicide.

Because of the idea that the tool and the means just has no value, that suicidal or homicidal people are just going to go and complete their act eventually. Anyway, people throw up their hands and ignore the fact that the immediacy of the tool is directly related to the likelihood of completion of the act, whether that is suicide or homicide.


Ignoring any constitutional lawyering because I'm not a lawyer and frankly I don't care to get bogged down in such a topic. The fact is that access to effective weaponry to the undifferentiated and untrained population who often holds the same erroneous views regarding suicide and homicide and coupling results in a higher amount of completed homicides and completed suicides.

Guns are in fact part of the problem.

 

[Splinty]

as soon as you have a database of all the firearms in existence.

how many crimes have been solved with the Canadian database?

Why doesn't Canada have our murder rate or suicide rate?




Our economic inequality surely results in some severe mental health issues. And our health care system that leaves about 20 to 25% of the population out in the cold probably stops easy access to mental health services.
But at the end of the day we are only a few higher percent others in diagnosis of mental health disorders with similar incomes. And in fact, Canadians rate themselves with more emotional distress than we do.

So why aren't they killing themselves like we are?

 

[Filthy]

Your post basically remind me of coal gas in England and suicides off the Golden gate bridge.

You're simply trying to swing the conversation towards one issue instead of the other. The issue is both. The term is coupling.

Until the 1950s in England, a very common suicide method was to place one's head in the oven. They used town gas or coal gas. It was odorless and could kill you painlessly. Alternatives included natural gas that had odor and took larger amounts to kill you.
Despite other countries moving to natural gas to the safety of it, English society spent decades basically blaming those committing suicide.
Arguments included how such a driven person would simply kill themselves some other way. The cost was too high. Suicides and accident leak deaths from this gas didn't happen that often. So who cares.

Likewise, when people started jumping off the Golden gate bridge, some people called to place netting so that the person would not fall into the water killing themselves. Same arguments about how a committed person is going to do it anyways.

But what happened when somebody sat on the Golden gate bridge and stopped the jumper? Greater than 90% would not go on to commit suicide. Suicide is an impulsive fleeting move.

When we added nets to the Golden gate bridge three decades after this knowledge that if you could just stop that suicide from being completed that the person would likely go on to get help, hundreds of people a year are estimated to have not going on to complete suicide due to this intervention.

When England got rid of coal gas total suicides went down. People did not convert to a different type of suicide 90% of the time.

Homicide is very similar. And rampage mass shootings, with the exception of a couple of psychotic individuals that had schizophrenia symptoms, Or really just an extension of suicidal tendencies. It is the ultimate nihilism wanting to put the pain onto others that they have for themselves. This is why so many of them often kill themselves as well. It's part of the ultimate plan of going out in style.

When a person is depressed or homicidal we try to remove guns from that person. Removing them from their access lowers their risk of suicide or homicide.

Because of the idea that the tool and the means just has no value, that suicidal or homicidal people are just going to go and complete their act eventually. Anyway, people throw up their hands and ignore the fact that the immediacy of the tool is directly related to the likelihood of completion of the act, whether that is suicide or homicide.


Ignoring any constitutional lawyering because I'm not a lawyer and frankly I don't care to get bogged down in such a topic. The fact is that access to effective weaponry to the undifferentiated and untrained population who often holds the same erroneous views regarding suicide and homicide and coupling results in a higher amount of completed homicides and completed suicides.

Guns are in fact part of the problem.

guns are a minor part of the problem, compared to the other contributors.

it's a single-source fallacy, as evidenced by comparisons to other nations where the system you describe has been implemented, and yet violence exceeds the US.

 

[Filthy]

Why doesn't Canada have our murder rate or suicide rate?

View attachment 68743


Our economic inequality surely results in some severe mental health issues. And our health care system that leaves about 20 to 25% of the population out in the cold probably stops easy access to mental health services.
But at the end of the day we are only a few higher percent others in diagnosis of mental health disorders with similar incomes. And in fact, Canadians rate themselves with more emotional distress than we do.

So why aren't they killing themselves like we are?

economic inequality and percentage of immigrant population (people less likely to avail themselves of social services, before you call me a right-wing xenophobe )

also, real cultural differences. we have so much masculinity it's toxic. They have very little. 90% of it is held by @BeardOfKnowledge

 

[Lukewarm Carl]

"all"?

i think if you look at the infrequency of these events, you'll see that we're invoking huge social upheaval, with no realistic expectation of less violence, by targeting one particular means of violence instead of the common source of the violence.

I didn't.

I said that I want some action for a change. I would love for it to be based around tending to the needs and offering mental health counselors to children and making therapy accessible via health insurance plans. (It's technically covered under many plans but they make it so difficult for the providers to adhere to the rules that many just can't accept it.)

But fucking hell... The govt needs to get off of it's collective damp ass and make an attempt at something that may help.

If the republicans want to cut funding from a lefty project then they should offer to put that money into youth counseling and offer up something that's relatively small, and in many ways being done, like deeper universal background checks or limiting how many firearms a person can buy in a month.

I've never had a NEED to buy 4 guns in a single month for self protection... So we could start small like that.

No single move is going to magically fix the issue but continuing to make zero moves will guarantee that's it's going to continue to happen over and over.

Action. Any possible positive action.

 

[John Lee Pettimore]

View attachment 68742

Yeah sure, but - and to be clear, I have no dog in this fight, I'm an entirely neutral, fair-minded, thoughtful observer.......

What would those numbers look like if kids in the rest of the planet outside of the States ALSO had access to Grand Theft Auto and old Tupac albums?

Checkmate, libtard. End of discussion.

??

 

[Lukewarm Carl]

Why doesn't Canada have our murder rate or suicide rate?

View attachment 68743


Our economic inequality surely results in some severe mental health issues. And our health care system that leaves about 20 to 25% of the population out in the cold probably stops easy access to mental health services.
But at the end of the day we are only a few higher percent others in diagnosis of mental health disorders with similar incomes. And in fact, Canadians rate themselves with more emotional distress than we do.

So why aren't they killing themselves like we are?

Poutine

 

[member 1013]

Not at any appreciable amount. Source the rand corporation. Hardly a liberal think tank. Waiting periods reduce suicides and domestic murder at a statistically significant level.

y do u hate freedumb

 

[John Lee Pettimore]

economic inequality and percentage of immigrant population (people less likely to avail themselves of social services, before you call me a right-wing xenophobe )

Australia has a much higher proportion of immigrants than either Canada or the States does.

Where are the routine massacres in Australia?

Why is your murder rate 4x higher than ours?

??

 

[John Lee Pettimore]

guns are a minor part of the problem, compared to the other contributors.

it's a single-source fallacy, as evidenced by comparisons to other nations where the system you describe has been implemented, and yet violence exceeds the US.

1) What is unique about the American cultural/social situation in the developed world - aside from the number of guns and the lack of healthcare?

2) Which other nations are more violent than yours? Aside from narco states and Third World shitholes?

??

 

[Filthy]

Australia has a much higher proportion of immigrants than either Canada or the States does.

Where are the routine massacres in Australia?

Why is your murder rate 4x higher than ours?

??

So no other differences? Just access to firearms?

 

[member 1013]

I am so down for that.

But after all of the shootings that have occurred... Not a damn thing has progressed.

At this point, I'll take any possible step that may stop one of these broken people from carrying out these attacks.

Not just throw a protective blanket over them to keep the Boogeymen away after they've gotten in. But to stop it from happening.

you have changed man

 

[Filthy]

1) What is unique about the American cultural/social situation in the developed world - aside from the number of guns and the lack of healthcare?

2) Which other nations are more violent than yours? Aside from narco states and Third World shitholes?

??

US is a narco state.

 

[member 1013]

I'm not going to spend time on either. You're aware that free speech is not absolute. Neither is the right to protest. Neither is the second amendment.

but i want an f-22 raptor