General Russia Ukraine round 2 Price hike boogaloo

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M

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zelensky says ukraine is suffering 60-100 KIA a day with an additional 500 wounded now. that’s not sustainable, they need to bend and not break more, i would abandon luhansk entirely and a lot of Donetsk to retreat to higher ground (there is a large ridge line/upland) TBH. they also need more long ranged fires, now that russia has focused its fires in one place the artillery barrages are simply devastating. unfortunately we don’t have a lot of those to give, as we (the west) are mostly air superiority forces. other than the US the only large artillery army i can think of is Finland.
 
Sheepdog

Sheepdog

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Lars said:
zelensky says ukraine is suffering 60-100 KIA a day with an additional 500 wounded now. that’s not sustainable, they need to bend and not break more, i would abandon luhansk entirely and a lot of Donetsk to retreat to higher ground (there is a large ridge line/upland) TBH. they also need more long ranged fires, now that russia has focused its fires in one place the artillery barrages are simply devastating. unfortunately we don’t have a lot of those to give, as we (the west) are mostly air superiority forces. other than the US the only large artillery army i can think of is Finland.
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All this time arguing and calling me a Putin puppet just to realize that I was right the whole time. As I have been saying, a lot of the criticisms of Ruskie military are valid - but ignore the fact that it is still an absolute monster when it comes to artillery. Fighting them in conditions favorable to mass artillery is suicide.

Abandoning Donbass serves both a military and a political purpose. Drags the fighting away from easy logistical access for Russia and gives Ukraine the upper hand again. Also, once Donbass has been taken, it makes it harder for Russia to keep justifying its own body bags.

Russian public has been conditioned to support the 'liberation' of Donbass, but do they have endless stomachs for piling up bodies trying to take places like Dnipro in a mission creep?

Ukraine is going to lose Donbass. Better to lose it now than after Russia has slaughtered its army. Feeding meat into the grinder only makes defending actual defensible places much harder.
 
BeardOfKnowledge

BeardOfKnowledge

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Jul 22, 2015
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Azov Volunteer ANZ said:
All this time arguing and calling me a Putin puppet just to realize that I was right the whole time. As I have been saying, a lot of the criticisms of Ruskie military are valid - but ignore the fact that it is still an absolute monster when it comes to artillery. Fighting them in conditions favorable to mass artillery is suicide.

Abandoning Donbass serves both a military and a political purpose. Drags the fighting away from easy logistical access for Russia and gives Ukraine the upper hand again. Also, once Donbass has been taken, it makes it harder for Russia to keep justifying its own body bags.

Russian public has been conditioned to support the 'liberation' of Donbass, but do they have endless stomachs for piling up bodies trying to take places like Dnipro in a mission creep?

Ukraine is going to lose Donbass. Better to lose it now than after Russia has slaughtered its army. Feeding meat into the grinder only makes defending actual defensible places much harder.
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Listen here. Biden paid Ukraine a whole bunch of Freedom bucks to grind their population down a nub just to spite the Ruskies, and damnit they're going to do it!
 
M

member 1013

Guest
Azov Volunteer ANZ said:
All this time arguing and calling me a Putin puppet just to realize that I was right the whole time. As I have been saying, a lot of the criticisms of Ruskie military are valid - but ignore the fact that it is still an absolute monster when it comes to artillery. Fighting them in conditions favorable to mass artillery is suicide.

Abandoning Donbass serves both a military and a political purpose. Drags the fighting away from easy logistical access for Russia and gives Ukraine the upper hand again. Also, once Donbass has been taken, it makes it harder for Russia to keep justifying its own body bags.

Russian public has been conditioned to support the 'liberation' of Donbass, but do they have endless stomachs for piling up bodies trying to take places like Dnipro in a mission creep?

Ukraine is going to lose Donbass. Better to lose it now than after Russia has slaughtered its army. Feeding meat into the grinder only makes defending actual defensible places much harder.
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i have been saying all that too you muppet
 
Sheepdog

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Lars said:
i have been saying all that too you muppet
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This is the first time I have seen you suggest abandoning Donbass.

And I was heavily mocked by you and others for saying Ukraine needed to concede it early on.
 
M

member 1013

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Azov Volunteer ANZ said:
This is the first time I have seen you suggest abandoning Donbass.

And I was heavily mocked by you and others for saying Ukraine needed to concede it early on.
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i agreed with you weeks ago they would probably lose it, and we wuz right, you wanted them to pull out before the fighting even intensified because u wuz worried about the north. orderly and fought withdrawals under actual pressure is da way. you wanted them to unfix half of the russian forces early like a dolt.
 
Sheepdog

Sheepdog

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BeardOfKnowledge said:
Listen here. Biden paid Ukraine a whole bunch of Freedom bucks to grind their population down a nub just to spite the Ruskies, and damnit they're going to do it!
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And Ukraine did at least pay some of that money back to Biden and his family, so they really have been good sports about the whole thing.
 
M

member 1013

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Lars said:
i agreed with you weeks ago they would probably lose it, and we wuz right, you wanted them to pull out before the fighting even intensified because u wuz worried about the north. orderly and fought withdrawals under actual pressure is da way. you wanted them to unfix half of the russian forces early like a dolt.
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if i speak to you like this, can you actually comprehend what i’m saying for once Sheepdog @Azov Volunteer ANZ
 
Sheepdog

Sheepdog

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Lars said:
i agreed with you weeks ago they would probably lose it, and we wuz right, you wanted them to pull out before the fighting even intensified because u wuz worried about the north. orderly and fought withdrawals under actual pressure is da way. you wanted them to unfix half of the russian forces early like a dolt.
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I never said they shouldn't implement a fighting retreat under any circumstances.

You have to understand bruv, that my advice to Ukraine is dependent on which link in the chain of terrible decisions I am addressing.

My advice in the first place was not to allow their government to become a tool of foreign anti-Russian interests, and then subsequently become infested with nationalist extremists as a result. And then not allow themselves to get sucked into a devastating war as a further result.

The original peace deal on the table, to concede Donbass, Crimea and NATO, will end up being better than what Ukraine ultimately gives up, as they will lose Kherson and (at least non-city) Zaporozhiza too. And if they keep fucking around by throwing meat into the grinder, they could lose Kharkiv and Dnipro as well.
 
M

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Azov Volunteer ANZ said:
I never said they shouldn't implement a fighting retreat under any circumstances.
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you were bleating that they should just surrender it pronto, but if you would like i’ll pretend that’s not what you were saying.

and people were calling you a tankie because you spent the first few weeks of the war following a jew around calling him a nazi apologist, saying ukrainians were going to ethnically cleanse their own russian speaking and ethnically russian population because they were bloodthirsty savages, slamming zelensky as an authoritarian despot for banning like 7 overtly pro-putin parties out of 132 official parties, and banning russian state propaganda, all while trying to turn the entire west into the bad guy and yelling at anyone who decided they didn’t want to see Ukraine get steamrolled about how they were an imperialist NATO stooge.
 
BeardOfKnowledge

BeardOfKnowledge

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Jul 22, 2015
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Lars said:
you were bleating that they should just surrender it pronto, but if you would like i’ll pretend that’s not what you were saying.

and people were calling you a tankie because you spent the first few weeks of the war following a jew around calling him a nazi apologist, saying ukrainians were going to ethnically cleanse their own russian speaking and ethnically russian population because they were bloodthirsty savages, slamming zelensky as an authoritarian despot for banning like 7 overtly pro-putin parties out of 132 official parties, and banning russian state propaganda, all while trying to turn the entire west into the bad guy and yelling at anyone who decided they didn’t want to see Ukraine get steamrolled about how they were an imperialist NATO stooge.
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TLDR: Sheepdog @Azov Volunteer ANZ is from the future and probably should have been listened to.
 
Sheepdog

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Lars said:
you were bleating that they should just surrender it pronto, but if you would like i’ll pretend that’s not what you were saying.

and people were calling you a tankie because you spent the first few weeks of the war following a jew around calling him a nazi apologist, saying ukrainians were going to ethnically cleanse their own russian speaking and ethnically russian population because they were bloodthirsty savages, slamming zelensky as an authoritarian despot for banning like 7 overtly pro-putin parties out of 132 official parties, and banning russian state propaganda, all while trying to turn the entire west into the bad guy and yelling at anyone who decided they didn’t want to see Ukraine get steamrolled about how they were an imperialist NATO stooge.
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There are some elements of truth in here, mixed in with a heap of pathetic straw man nonsense.

Saying that I called 'Ukrainians' - with no distinction between regular people and the minority of violent Banderite extremists - 'bloodthirsty savages'. It's ridiculous to suggest that I would ever say something like that

You simply project your own hysterical black and white worldview on to me and can never understand any nuance in what I say.

Yes, the part about me putting primary responsibility for this disaster at the feet of the US is absolutely true, but I don't see the Ruskies as innocent, just weaker imperialists. I have always called this an imperialist turf war with Ukrainians the victims stuck in the middle. This is not a controversial position among people who actually know what they are talking about.

I'm a proper commie, not like these pro-NATO 'leftie' dipshits who don't realize that such a thing is an absurd oxymoron. 'Tankie' used to have some meaning on the left, but has now become a word that is used by retards who think they are lefties but actually aren't to refer to actual lefties.

When you understand that, then you understand that none of what I say has anything to do with Ukrainians or Ruskies being goodies or baddies. Reality is a lot more complicated than that.
 
M

member 1013

Guest
Azov Volunteer ANZ said:
There are some elements of truth in here, mixed in with a heap of pathetic straw man nonsense.

Saying that I called 'Ukrainians' - with no distinction between regular people and the minority of violent Banderite extremists - 'bloodthirsty savages'. It's ridiculous to suggest that I would ever say something like that

You simply project your own hysterical black and white worldview on to me and can never understand any nuance in what I say.

Yes, the part about me putting primary responsibility for this disaster at the feet of the US is absolutely true, but I don't see the Ruskies as innocent, just weaker imperialists. I have always called this an imperialist turf war with Ukrainians the victims stuck in the middle. This is not a controversial position among people who actually know what they are talking about.

I'm a proper commie, not like these pro-NATO 'leftie' dipshits who don't realize that such a thing is an absurd oxymoron. 'Tankie' used to have some meaning on the left, but has now become a word that is used by retards who think they are lefties but actually aren't to refer to actual lefties.

When you understand that, then you understand that none of what I say has anything to do with Ukrainians or Ruskies being goodies or baddies. Reality is a lot more complicated than that.
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bruv i find this post hilarious. your world view is sophomoric and you think you’re writing deep treatises i can’t parse. i’ve had more thrilling debates in first year poli sci.
 
Sheepdog

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Lars said:
bruv i find this post hilarious. your world view is sophomoric and you think you’re writing deep treatises i can’t parse. i’ve had more thrilling debates in first year poli sci.
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I didn't think I was writing anything deep, mete. I was just explaining in simple terms that some of the nonsense you attribute to me is simply that.

I wouldn't have debated you in first year poli sci because the only types of dipshits that would engage in such nonsense are the same type of people who resort to straw manning people on the internet.
 
M

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Azov Volunteer ANZ said:
I didn't think I was writing anything deep, mete. I was just explaining in simple terms that some of the nonsense you attribute to me is simply that.

I wouldn't have debated you in first year poli sci because the only types of dipshits that would engage in such nonsense are the same type of people who resort to straw manning people on the internet.
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you have built a yuge straw house ITT and you don’t like it getting blown down, so you project onto others

it’s fine
 
M

member 3289

Guest
Azov Volunteer ANZ said:
I didn't think I was writing anything deep, mete. I was just explaining in simple terms that some of the nonsense you attribute to me is simply that.

I wouldn't have debated you in first year poli sci because the only types of dipshits that would engage in such nonsense are the same type of people who resort to straw manning people on the internet.
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Member when you said Azov should have surrendered Mariupol on March 19?
 
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